Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Nick Harris"
As you did not mention whether the DF was Kiln dried,I can only comment that ifit was then I would not worry as Cedar is light compared to DF.If it is not kiln dried then I would borrow beg or steal a moisture meter and measureits content.If it is anywhere above 12% you will have to wait for it toair dry to this measure or find a local kiln to speed up the process before usingit in your project.Working with wood that has not at least air dried to12% or under will only give you grief as it shrinks after your plane is put together.From a cabinet maker who has learned most lessons the hard way!Kind regards,MikePs-If this was all common knowledge to you forgive me!________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I think that it was Kiln dried. These were boards that would be used forfinish work. I will double check though. Where would you get a moisturemeter? How much? How does it work?Nick _____

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Nick,Many times your local "woodworking club" will have one to loan out tomembers.Jack TDes Moines________________________________

Original Posted By: "Steve Eldredge"
If they were finished boards ie: dimentioned 3/4 in" by whatever they were morethan likley kiln dried,and I would not give it any more thought.As to the moisture meter I purchased mine through Lee Valley Woodworking toolsfor around $80 but I am a cabinet maker and buy all my lumber in the rough andplane and joint it myself so I bring my meter with me when I go to purchase mylumber and check its moisture content and if it is to high I can dicker priceas I will have to take it home and sticker it(stack it with stickers in betweenthe layers and let it dry to workable wood)which is time consuming.Home Depot and places like Lowes charge astronomical prices for wood that is kilndried and dimentioned as compared to the way I buy it from sawyers.I buy localRed oak from a sawyer for $3.25 a board foot(1" thick X 12" wide X1 foot)Athome Depot I would pay the equivelent of $12.00 a board foot.Buying in the roughhas paid for my tools many times over,but I work with it all the time.Itswhy I decided to build a Piet!Good luck,Mike________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: DF weightDate: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:09:58 -0600

Original Posted By: Gary Gower

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
A by weight comparison of oven dried : Douglas Fir -31 lbs/sq.ft. Sitka Spruce -28 lbs/sq.ft. Western Red Cedar -22 lbs/sq.ft.Would be nice to be able to build it entirely from the WRC,probably come in under600 lbs easy!Regards,Mike________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:06:55 -0400

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re :DF weightI think the numbers you are referencing beloware cubic feet, not square feet of the dif types of wood. Most kiln dried typesof soft woods are in that range of densities per cubic foot. Think the reasonspruce is a preferred wood has to do with the length and alignment of theindividual fibers, chk out Aircraft Spruce's technical discussion the subject.I used Home Depot clear 2" x 1/4" strips of window casement molding materialsfor making the longerons on the Cozy, cheap, knothole free, and strong. Laminatedtogether to make curved 3" by 2" by 10', beams that support the main stresseson the aircraft other than the composite spars. For further research on materials and regarding dif types of acceptable wood materials,and reasons why they're acceptable, for airplanes chk out the FAA'sAdvisory Circulars AC 43.13-1B and 2A "Acceptable methods, techniques and practices-Aircraft Inspection and Repair".Gordon Bowen -Homer AlaskaCozy IV N64CYOsprey II N64SYPietenpol N-1033B" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Dave and Connie

Original Posted By: "tmbrant1(at)netzero.com"
These are the numbers I dug up,as to western red cedars suitability for spars Iam not knowledgable enough to comment.I will leave that to the experts. Stress in psi Bending Compression Horizontal Shear Perpendicular to grain Parrallel tograinWRC 1150 425 1000DF 1668 625 1700SP 1495 335 1200These numbers are dry weight lumber.Hope this answers your question,maybe someoneelse can fill in the blanks.Regards,Mike________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Steve Ruse
Interestingly enough Port Orford Cedars numbers are identical to Western Red Cedar1150 ,425,1000 as I had in the graph.Mike________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:53:41 -0400

Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tulsa Fly-INIn a message dated 9/15/2005 9:29:09 PM Central Standard Time, lnelson208(at)yahoo.com writes:Any of y'all heading to the Tulsa Fly-In this weekend?I will be there in the Cessna 195, N9883A. Here issome info.http://www.tulsaflyin.com/where_to_stay.htmLarry,Is that the annual EAA Fly In? I didn't see anything about the EAA at the website. Bartlesville Ok is where they had it last year. That's a day trip, down and back for me.Weather permitting, I will be there with NX770CG.Chuck Gantzer________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:59:28 -0700

Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
I plan on flying NX25JM to Bartlesville......NEXT year.....My Dad and grandparents are from Bartlesville...I know the town well and it's definitelyon my list of "where I'm gonna fly this thing when it's finished" airfields!).......Jim in Plano ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
A review of FAA's Circular indicates WRC not on acceptable list, but white cedaror Port Orford cedar ok to substitute for spruce but gluing requires some specialwork (I suspect due to the excessive oils in cedar, oh but it does smellso good while you're working with it). DFir, Noble Fir, Western Hemlock allok to replace spruce. Each has pros and cons due to workability and gluing. White Pine and Yellow poplar ok to replace spruce but structures must be largerdue to reduced compression and/or shear. Guess because we're experimentalist and our own testpilots/design engineers/mechanics/floorsweepers/bottlewashers/etc.when it comes to our adventures with homebuilts,you could use just about any kind of wood you want. But probably bestto stick with some known types. Still not sold on idea of putting latex paint on as the fabric coating, ain't latexpaint water soluble? Heck, if you're gonna use latex paint, why not justcover the plane with Tedlar or Tyvek (white housewrapping stuff with Dupont orHome Depot's name on it), like the ultralights do. It's been proven to work.Will last a lifetime (limited pilot lifetime warranteed), will glue nicely,will heat shrink. Great stuff, no nasty solvent laden paints needed. Besidesif you can't get Powdermilk Biscuits to sponsor you homebuilt, why not Home Depotor Lowes even if they don't know they're your sponsor.Gordon Bowen -Homer AlaskaCozy IV N64CYOsprey II N64SYPietenpol N-1033B" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Kirk Huizenga

Original Posted By:> "Gordon Bowen" [snipped]
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Original Posted By:
I flew thru a couple of rain showers this summer. It stayed outside overnight at Brodhead. I have accidently spilled gas while fueling a few times, I use 409 to clean the bugs off of the leading edges and my $100 Sherwin Williams job still looks good.Dick N.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By:
Living as I do in an unpainted log cabin in AK, last latex paint I put onthe outside of a house was some years ago, but the exterior grade latexpaints seemed to be designed to all want to "chalk", therefore bleeding outsome of their fillers/and or polymers over the years so the house remainedwhite or at least looking somewhat freshly painted until the next time youhad to repaint. You repainted when the paint looked kinda thin or startedto peel.Painting and/or recovering now 5 airplanes in my lifetime, I recall theaverage cost of coatings for a fabric plane has been about $600.00,including a good solvent based polyurethane/acrylate finish coat. In thecase of the Piete, the coatings costs was about 5% of the cost of buildingthe plane, due to using Stits as the filler coats. In the case of theOsprey it was about 2%, and the Cozy less than 1%. Putting on a goodprotective paint designed to last 20 years or more was the easiest andcheapest part of building the airplanes. Many of the guys buildingultralights and some homebuilder designs like the KR use a solvent basedpolyurethane over the fabric directly (no Stits or dope), it seems to workfine. To each his/her own, we love the adventure of trying new ideas.Gordon Bowen -Homer AlaskaCozy IV N64CYOsprey II N64SYPietenpol N-1033B" There are no passengers on spaceship Earth, we are all crew", McLuhan----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright

Original Posted By: Jim Lathrop

Original Posted By: Jim Lathrop
JimThanks for the heads up.Nick ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Gary Gower

Original Posted By: Gary Gower

Original Posted By: Gary Gower

Original Posted By: Mark

Original Posted By: Rick Holland

Original Posted By: Tim Willis