Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?Hi All,I am using a Ford A motor and am contemplating adding a stainless firewall to the airplane. Of course it will add unwelcome weight and I am concerned with that. Should I put it only on the large vertical area or also to the "shelf" part where the mag goes? What are the opinions out there on this subjectof firewalls?Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 00:40:27 -0800

Original Posted By: Pietsrneat(at)aol.com
Hi Dan...A firewall is only necessary if your engine catches fire..Just kidding...But then, a DAR will probably not sign off on your plane for it's airworthness certificate if all the plywood is not protected by metal. If it were my plane I would want the shelf area protected as well as the lower section. If you ever need it it will be well worth the extra weight. Use the lightest recommended gauge metal and back it up with firewall insulation material. Ed G.>From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?>Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:18:34 EST>>Hi All,>>I am using a Ford A motor and am contemplating adding a stainless firewall>to the airplane. Of course it will add unwelcome weight and I am concerned>with that. Should I put it only on the large vertical area or also to the>"shelf" part where the mag goes? What are the opinions out there on this >subject>of firewalls?>>Dan Helsper>Poplar Grove, IL________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Scott Schreiber"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?Ed,What is the firewall insulation material you refer to? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
I used aluminum instead of stainless for the firewall, not knowing better at the time. I then glued on a fiberfrax matting on front of it, good to 2800 degrees. Above the shelf, I used Firewall 2000 blanket, behind the galvanized former for the turtle deck. Both products are in the Aircraft Spruce catalog.If I was going to do it again, I would just use .024 stainless. Don't worry so much about weight foreward of C.G.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
I can't pull the name of it out of my head right now and I don't have an ACS catalog with me here at work. The stuff I used looks similar to asbestos sheet and comes in either 1/16" or 1/8" thickness. It sandwiches between the metal and wood. It's purpose is to keep the hot sheet metal from setting the wood on fire hopefully buying you enough time to get on the ground. I used the 1/8" . I think it's in the "firewall" section of your Aircraft Spruce catalog. It's not required but it is good insurance. A gasoline or oil fire fed by 70 mph winds can get really hot, really fast. Ed>From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com>Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?>Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:21:24 EST>>Ed,>>What is the firewall insulation material you refer to?>>Dan Helsper>Poplar Grove, IL.>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:18:39 -0500

Original Posted By: "Ed G."
it's FiberFrax and I used it on my firewall as well. I've put a sample on apiece of wood and held the torch to the sample for up to a minute and thewood was only discolored not ignited.DJ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gene & Tammy"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?In a message dated 11/28/2006 1:20:33 AM Central Standard Time, HelsperSew(at)aol.com writes:What are the opinions out there on this subject of firewalls?Dan,Yes, a Firewall is Definately necessary !! The only material that should be used for Firewalls, are either Stainless Steel, or the less expensive Galvanized steel. When I had the Model A on my Pietenpol, I used Galvanized justup to the top edge of the face of the firewall, but not into the shelf area. It would be very difficult to build enough protection into the shelf area becausethere is so many inside corners and sides to protect. That would also cause aplace for moisture to collect. For this reason, the Model A Pietenpol is a very difficult design to protect from an engine fire. When I did the FirewallForward retrofit to the Continental A65 engine, I used a full face - one piece Stainless Steel firewall, and backed it up with the thickest fiberglass matt(not weave) I could find which is about 1/16" thick. I think it's a good idea to back it up with FiberFrax (which is a Ceramic fiber), which is superiorto fiberglass...just have to be carefull not to compress the thickness of the FiberFrax. I'm using 1/8" FiberFrax behind the firewall on my Tailwind. LynnKnoll and I did a flame test on the Fiberfax, and it simply will Not burn.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Chuck,An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless steel?Al in Portland Maine ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"

Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Alan,Titanium is lighter than stainless,More corrosion resistant than stainlessBut has a much higher thermal conductivity than stainless, almost the sameas Aluminum.Thus I would not recommend using it as the main objective of the firewallis insulation from heat not fire (the same reason we use fibrefrax)I work for a company that makes plate heat exchangers out of titanium,excellent material for that duty.Hans "Alan Lyscars" To Sent by: owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary? 11/29/2006 09:13 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com Chuck,An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than largeenough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainlesssteel?Al in Portland Maine ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By:

Original Posted By: "Gene & Tammy"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is a firewall necessary?In a message dated 11/29/2006 9:17:39 AM Central Standard Time, alyscars(at)maine.rr.com writes:Chuck,An ole timer in our Chapter gave me a sheet of titanium more than large enough for a firewall. Is it ok to use this metal compared to stainless steel?Al in Portland MaineAl,The sheet of Titanium would be suitable for a firewall, if it is not more than .020 or .025 thick. Like Jack P. mentioned, from a heat, flame, and weightstandpoint it would be suitable, and it is difficult to drill, but it can be done...you'll go through lots of drill bits. I've drilled Titanium at work, and it puts of a very offending, and maybe toxic, odor. The primary reason itis not used is the high cost.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Gene Hubbard

Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
>>Ed,>>What is the firewall insulation material you refer to?>>Dan Helsper>Poplar Grove, IL.>_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________