Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "rmueller23"
I need to get some .065 4130 steel flat parts cut. I don't have a lot offree time and I get a good deal on my friend's CNC turret punch so I amgoing to just draw them in CAD and have him punch them out. I was thinkingthat I might be able to sell some other punched parts to offset my setupcost some. Is there anyone already selling pre cut steel parts? Is theremuch demand for it?It is a particularly good method of doing things like the wing attachfittings where you need a bunch of them and you want all of the bolt holesin exactly the same place on all of them. For things like the 90 degreebent tail attach fittings you are better off just starting with strip stock,radiusing the corners, bending, then drilling the holes in place than havingthem punched and trying to bend them exactly the same and having the holescome out the same on the left and right sides.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair intake manifold (Bernie's design)

Original Posted By: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
Hello all,Had a fantastic weekend at the MAAC fly-in at Brodhead. My wife had never flownin a light airplane before, and through a confluence of coincidences she wasable to take her first flight in "The Last Original" with the woman who used toown the airplane years ago, who is a friend as well. This was particularly perfect,as last month we received our own set of Piet plans, and we are goingto use the Corvair. And her opinion of the flight: she loved it! Needless to say,I'm ecstatic. She was enthusiastic about it beforehand, but now she knowsshe likes it, so she is even more gung ho about building and flying our own Piet.I'm a lucky man. Many thanks to Bill Knight, who was gracious enoughto allow her to go flying in his airplane. Later on he also allowed me to climbinto the airplane and see how it fit, and I must say that I was pleasantly surprisedthat I was not cramped. I'm not extra tall (5'11"), however I'm not small(220, 44" chest). Reading some of the postings about cockpit width had meworried, thankfully for no reason. Anywho, on to my question....I've been reading through the builders manual, and thinking about how we will convertour Corvair. I rather like the idea of sticking to Bernie's conversion.It's relatively simple, has thousands of flight proven hours. Plenty of timebefore we completely make a call on that. One of the things in the process I waswondering about was the design of the intake manifold. Bernard indicates thatthe intake manifold is jacketed, and engine oil is circulated through it inorder to heat the manifold, and cool the oil. If it's not an utter bear to construct,it would seem to be a good way to heat the manifold to reduce the susceptibilityto carb ice.Unfortunately there is no picture or drawing of this that I have found, and I donot know exactly how one would go about fabricating such a setup. Might anyonehave an eye-witness description in a bit more detail, or better yet some photos?I wish we had been able to pop the cowling on the "Last Original" at Brodhead,but we didn't ask at the time because we did not want to be a bother witheverything else that was going on. Maybe on the next trip up.Have a good evening everyone,RyanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "rmueller23"
Dave, what prop did you have and what prop did you go to?Gene----- Original Message ----- >, well worth the $$ for the prop in terms of get me over that tree at the end of the runway value.>>>>>> -- > 5:43 PM>> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair intake manifold (Bernie's design)

Original Posted By: "MICHAEL SILVIUS"
Of course I would post this question last night, and after a few minutes this morningpoking around I run across a picture looking into the rear of 899H's cowling:http://www.builddiary.net/images/logs/2 ... 0387.JPGOk, now that I can see that, can someone take a look and confirm what I think Iam seeing? There is a vertical tube behind the engine. It runs directly behindthe chafe tape w/ zip-tie that is on the angled engine mount member. This wouldappear to me to be part of the intake manifold. As I follow it down I seeit steps down in size, and then I can just make out what appears to be the carbflange, mostly hidden behind the horizontal engine mount member.The manual instructions say that the manifold is made of 1 1/2" OD steel tubing,and the jacket is made from 2" tubing. After viewing this pic, and reading thatdescription again, my initial conclusion would be that he slipped the 2" tubingover the 1 1/2" tubing, cut circular "caps" to enclose the ends of the 2"tubing, and welded this all together. I would then guess that he would run oilthrough a fitting into and out of the jacket. I can barely make out what appearsto be an oil line attaching to the top of the jacket on the side facingthe camera, and another line running behind the jacket in roughly the same location.This all raises another question: would he run warm oil into, and take cool oilout of fittings that are both located at the top of the jacket? After the jacketis filled with oil I would think this would not promote circulation of theoil through the jacket long enough to do any good. In addition, why would thosethree copper tubing lines, assuming they are oil lines, need to be run to thefirewall like that?I hope I'm not missing something completely obvious here. Any thoughts on the matterwould be appreciated. Thanks, and have a good day,RyanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cut steel partsBrian,For what its worth, I just had all my metal done in CAD. I sent them out for laser cutting, out of 4130 stock. It should be interesting to see what I get back. I believe my quantities may be excessive so I expect a bunch of extra parts also. According to my guy there is a good chance my parts may be cut this week, I remain hopeful and excited to see them arrive. Then its off to becoated/painted I am not certain about that part of the process yet but I am looking at the alternatives.Not sure if anyone may be interested but figured not to offer my excess parts for sale until I get all my metal bent and finished counted and verified.I am sure there may be others interested in speeding up the metal process. Since I have all the CAD drawings on CD in the 2 formats I was considering makingthem available for sale as to off set the development costs of getting them done if anyone is interested?I saw some for sale at Broadhead also, not sure if they sold but was curious as to the paint coating needed for all the metal parts as the typical treatment. I am also considering powder coating them not sure which direction Iwill go. Obviously paint weighs less than powder coating, what is the general conscious for metal parts coatings?John ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "rmueller23"
>saw a bikini with a pair of propellers on 'em !!>the wife still knew what I was looking at, and I still got slapped !!You got slapped for looking at propellers? Imagine what might have happened if you had been checking out the empennage as well...Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Discover sweet stuff waiting for you at the Messenger Cafe. Claim your treat today! http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Corvair intake manifold (Bernie's design)

Original Posted By: "rmueller23"
Ryan:If you are going to use a corvair engine spend the money and buy WilliamWynne's conversion manual for the engine. Many improvements since Bernardfirst used one as well as a good guide to witch engine year/model and thespecifics on how to accomplish it.www.flycorvair.comto catch on to many of the idiosyncrasies of the corvair you may also wantto read up on and lurk on the Crovaircraft list at:http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.htmlMichael----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Michael,Thanks for the advice. I do have a copy of the manual (borrowed from a friend tothumb through before I take it back when I go to pick up my core from him intwo weeks). I'll order my own copy (and see how long it takes to show up) beforewe order parts, as I'll need to send in the disclaimer from the manual. Wewill follow his minimum recommendations for many aspects of the rebuild (forgedpistons, ARP rod bolts, etc). I imagine we will buy a few parts from him, suchas the oil pan, maybe the safety shaft. We're building a hand-prop motor, so we won't need his starter setup. I plan onkeeping the alternator in the rear, so we won't need the brackets. Because wewon't be using a front alternator, we have no need for the gold hub w/ the pulleygroove that he sells. If I'm not going to need use the front pulley, thenI do not want the prop hub being any longer than necessary (no need adding extrastress on the crank), so we'll stick to the Pietenpol design there as well.We'll fab our own exhaust, so on an so forth.I have been lurking for a bit on the Corvaircraft mailing list, and it is a veryactive and interesting source of information and opinion.Thanks, and have a good one,RyanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Brian Kraut"
Remember the comments about making certain parts a bit longer than called for in the plans. Mike Cuy and Chuck Gantzer both mention this in their videos and point out various locations where it makes a big difference in being able to fit bolts through the fittings and to work with the nuts on them. Parts like the wing strut attach fittings that stick out the bottom of the wings, if made to plans, put the attachment hardware right up against the fabric covering with no room to work. Lengthen them a bit, like these: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/P6210018.JPGOscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Get a FREE small business Web site and more from Microsoft Office Live! ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I am avoiding laser since it heats the metal and hardens the edges. Theturret punch leaves some slight scallops on some curved edges, but then cane sanded out easily and the holes come out perfect.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Brian Kraut
How about a water jet cut part? I don't think there is any heat involved in that type of cut. Also would a punch introduce stress in the metal? ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Terry Hall"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cut steel partsUnless I am missing a critical piece of information, laser cutting heat is concentrated and localized to the edges of the material. That means edges are harder and less prone to wear at the edge which could be a positive note when considering holes would be treated to prevent wear.Areas where hardened edges are not wanted or warranted can always be ground or filed off as I suspect the heat would be concentrated and localized to a small area which can be ground or filed off as needed. Not unless I am missingsome critical piece of information, in which case please advise, (Piet Builder in training and learning new things daily).I think, I would prefer to file a little than cut a bunch, just my uneducated opinion for today and subject to change based upon a more pragmaticand empirical approach.ThanksJohn________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "rmueller23"
Vi Kapler used to sell those intake manifolds like Mr.Pietenpol used tomake. If Kirk Huizenga is still on the list, I believe he had one for salesome time back, might still. It is wrapped with an oil system to heat theintake manifold while cooling the oil. I believe Wm. Wynne has tried themand was not too impressed with their functionality, but you should call andask him about them because I might be mistaken. Those lines could be oilpressure to a guage, oil temperature to a guage and primer to a pump to themanifold.dennis----- Original Message -----