Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "jimd"
carson wrote:> Mike > After reading your post I emailed emachine shop and they replied that if youhave the order number of the previous customer they can email the drawings andyou can choose the parts you want.> So if someone has used them and is kind enough to post their order number youare on your way.> CarsonCool, thank you very much! Lemme think on this one. I can CAD the parts prettyquickly (I have AutoCAD and am pretty good at 2D drawings at least, forget 3D..).Mike D.--------Piet-builder-who-hopes-to-be-flying-next-summerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?

Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim,If you're willing to travel for a few days flying, check out the J-3 Cub instruction article in the latest Sport Aviation magazine being offered in Hartford, WI. The article said J-3 solo was $65.00 per hour and the instructor can't be much more than an extra $30-40. over that.Perry----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim,It comes down to insurance and lawyers. Have CFI/AP buddy in FL who bought Aeronca just for the purpose of tailwheel training work, because of problems you mentioned. His insurance cost a small fortune. Best bet is take a short couple week vacation to FL and get your BFR and rating, there are serveral options in FL including my buddy CFI. Even here in AK, where there's more taildraggers per capita than anywhere in the world, we have very few options with the flight schools and taildragger ratings.Gordon----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: John Egan

Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim,If you have the need to be in eastern Ohio, there is Barber Airport with a Taylorcraftfor about $65.00 an hour and a Decathalon at about $95.00 an hour. Instructionis probably about $30.00.Check ; www.barberaircraft.com Just up the road is Salem Airport with a Citabria at $85.00 and a Decathalonat $100.00. Instruction I believe is $22.00. The Decathalon with instructorwill teach aerobatics, especially spins. These folks at Salem are truly fantasticpeople! The family has put their entire lives into this airport.Check;http://www.salemairpark.com/aviation.aspAnyway I guess you'd have to stay for a couple of days, but you could gain quitea bit in such a short time. Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?

Original Posted By:> jimd
Jim,This may be a little far for you but it is a great place. Red Stewart Fieldin Waynesville OH. Cub or Champ $52/hour Instructor $30/hour.Check out the history, Red Stewart was quite a pilot.The only kicker is you can't solo, only fly with an instructor, unless youhave renters hull insurance.http://www.stewartsaircraft.net/Skip> [Original Message]

Original Posted By: "Chet's Mail"
Hi,Saw the latest sport aviation. Just didn't think it would come to traveling across country to get in some flyingtime in a "conventional" gear plane. Its been quite a while since I was current flying, but.. I remember renting anAeronca Champ wet for $12 an hour. Instructors were about $10. Had a frat brotherthat would instruct for $7... Now a $100 an hour is supposed to be good? Iam 45, that was not that incredibly long ago.There are a lot of tail draggers around, our local EAA guys alone have dozens,but heard the insurance for renting a tail dragger out is something crazy like$6000 a year. If thats true, makes sense why its hard to find them. (Course youcan't rent out homebuilts, and saw that the one exception expired.)Jim [Shocked]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Usually the best way to find a good local tailwheel instructor is by word ofmouth. There are a few very good ones by me that I know, but none of themadvertise or do instruction for their primary job. One of them owns thelocal banner towing company. One other flies corporate jets for a livingand does TW instruction on the side in his father's Citabria. I found theone with the Citabria by calling the local EAA flight advisor.Also check for some LSA instructors in your area. A lot of those aretailwheel.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Brian Kraut"
When our daughter decided she wanted to fly we found an ag pilot that had a good reputation and he worked out just great. My landlord at the airport is one also and let me tell you these guys are good. not the cracy daredevil typs that hollywood portrays. Steve S.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "jimd"
> Its been quite a while since I was current flying, but.. I remember> renting an Aeronca Champ wet for $12 an hour. Instructors were about $10.> Had a frat brother that would instruct for $7... Now a $100 an hour is> supposed to be good? I am 45, that was not that incredibly long ago.It sounds as if it was 20-30 years ago anyhow, and with that, "entry level"homes (in California) were $19-23k; mogas was 35-69 a gallon; minimum wagewas at or below $2 per hour, bread was 19 a loaf, eggs were 69 a dozen andhouses (or apartments) usually rented for $100 per bedroom; the VW beetlewas $1,995 and a Pinto was at $2,395. About that time the gliderport where I worked (as a teenaged lineboy) justbought three new Bellanca Scouts for $29K each (more than my parent's newhome). The Airknocker they rented out cost one of the owners $2500. Prices go up. When adjusted for inflation, $100 per hour, wet, with aninstructor IS indeed a deal. That's "only" four times what we paid " notthat incredibly long ago", where as everything else we buy daily is at orover 4x what it was back then.Pat________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?

Original Posted By: "Patrick Panzera"
Yes it was 20-30 yrs ago.New Oldsmobiles were just over $3000, gas was 50 cents a gallon.They had terminal control areas, not lettered classes of airspace.Wanted to fly again, as I enjoyed it in my youth, took my first lessons when Iwas 12. This is all making me feel old.Have found some leads on local CFI's with planes. Given insurance, and all theother high cost things we have now, $100 an hour will probably be a good price.(But I don't have to like it.)Jim [Wink]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-
This might help.It's WAY easier for you to come up with the $100 per hour now than it was tocome up with the $25 per hour back then.I had to give up flying (as you did) when I joined the Navy (1977) as at$250 per month income, $25 per hour was impossible. I had a car payment,insurance, and I shared a studio apartment in San Diego, so there was littleleft for recreation. THEN I had to go and get a girlfriend, who I married,then made babies with who grew up to cost me things like food clothes,mortgage, cars, college, etc. So for me (as with you) I had to wait a longtime for $100 per hour to become cheap enough to finish my lessons. Pat> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Gordon Bowen"
You have a point. Well, hope we don't look back on prices now and say, gee it was so cheap to flyback then.I barely had the money to cover gas for the J-3 then, and now I am able to geta plane and have enough to finish it up. Live indoors still, so I should buckup and pay the $100 or so an hour.Think once I am in the air again I won't care.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim,I was in the same boat as you after working on building planes for 7 years without flying much, except as passenger. Tried some hit and miss flying C-172's, etc., during the building periods but found, it's kind of like riding a bike, you get back in the groove very fast and the instructor is kinda bored with just touch and goes. Final analysis, set back 1500 bucks and commit it to a flying program with one particular instructor and plane. Bite the bullet and give yourself a month of nothing but dedicated flying a couple hrs per week before you try flying your homebuilt. In my opinion, it's even best to keep the instructor in the plane all the hrs, have him/her have you really really sharpen your skills for 10-15 hrs. A taildragger, with instructor is gonna cost 125/150/hr wet. Go to AZ or FL for little vacation, fly for 2 weeks or a month solid. You'll feel a heck of a lot more confident when the time comes to be a test pilot. When those test wheels leave the ground the first time, there's no better feeling than knowing (flat-out knowing) you can handle any kind of emergency that may come up.Gordon----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Jack T. Textor"

Original Posted By: "walt evans"

Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?Here's my story:Back in 1971 I worked in a pizza joint every Friday and Saturday night for 8 hours making $1.50/hr . Just made enough to buy 1 hour of dual on Sunday. This was back in 1971. Dual was $25.00/hr in an American AA-1 Yankee. All theother boys at the restaurant thought I was nuts to waste my money on that. They were all saving for a car. I used to tell them that I would live in my airplane. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products.(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-produc ... 0000000001)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:34:36 -0500

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I bought a Cessna 140 about 4 months ago to learn to fly in while building.My buddy is a Fed-Ex pilot, and just loves to fly... He flys with mewhenever I want, and I pay for everything.I figure when I start with the CFI to get my ticket it will all go a lotfaster.Or, maybe I will have to un-learn some bad habits! Which will takelonger!!!!!DaveN140MW& NX000DA under construction 2 years last weekend!

Original Posted By:> ----- Original Message ----- "jimd"
I think this is good advice. Committing to the process is probably the best way to go.We have flight schools in the San Francisco Bay Area that teach in the taildraggers that they rent. Here in Livermore, CA we have Red Sky Aviation (http://www.redskyaviation.com/) that teaches in LSA compatible aircraft. They teach in Champs for about $110/hr wet. There is also Attitude Aviation (http://www.attitudeaviation.com/). A bit more expensive, but they have lots of planes (Cub included). They both can teach other training situations that you might need (uncontrolled/controlled airspace; radar advisories; paved/unpaved airstrips; unusual attitudes; etc.). You just need to find a place to stay. There are plenty of discount hotels near Livermore. Both schools tell me that you should be able to get your endorsement in no longer than 3 days (BFR included). But, make it a vacation. Your wife might even enjoy it. ;)Come to the Bay Area for 2 weeks. You can't find much more beauty from the air than here.(GG Bridge at ~1900' - SF Bay Tour via NORCAL Tracon [San Jose>San Fran>Oakland>San Jose] circa 2000; NORCAL has a standard procedure for the VFR Bay Tour. This is still being flown today)twOn Nov 27, 2007, at 11:52 AM, Gordon Bowen wrote:> >> Jim,> I was in the same boat as you after working on building planes for > 7 years without flying much, except as passenger. Tried some hit > and miss flying C-172's, etc., during the building periods but > found, it's kind of like riding a bike, you get back in the groove > very fast and the instructor is kinda bored with just touch and > goes. Final analysis, set back 1500 bucks and commit it to a > flying program with one particular instructor and plane. Bite the > bullet and give yourself a month of nothing but dedicated flying a > couple hrs per week before you try flying your homebuilt. In my > opinion, it's even best to keep the instructor in the plane all the > hrs, have him/her have you really really sharpen your skills for > 10-15 hrs. A taildragger, with instructor is gonna cost 125/150/hr > wet. Go to AZ or FL for little vacation, fly for 2 weeks or a > month solid. You'll feel a heck of a lot more confident when the > time comes to be a test pilot. When those test wheels leave the > ground the first time, there's no better feeling than knowing (flat- > out knowing) you can handle any kind of emergency that may come up.> Gordon>

Original Posted By: Tim Verthein

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
When I started in about 1982 you could rent a 152 for $32 an hour. In 1988when I finished my license it was $35 an hour. In a matter of just a coupleof years it went up past $50 and quickly got to $75 or more. What happenedaround 1990 that made the price go up so much faster than it had for so manyyears I have no idea but there was a definite spike around that time thathas not seemed to let up yet. It has certainly outpaced inflation for thepast 15 or more years.I had hoped that the LSAs would bring things down to a reasonable level, butthat has not happened. Now you still pay a lot for one, it is just newer.I make more than my father did, but I would not be able to let my son startflight training at 13 years old like my father did if I did not own my ownplanes. It is a real shame. Flying changed my life and I have given YoungEagles rides to kids and seen the same spark in their eyes as I had at theirage. It is very unfortunate that for many of them that the spark will diebecause they don't have the money.Keep this in mind the next time you have the opportunity to help a kid flyand be proud that you are bringing lower cost planes into the world.Brian KrautEngineering Alternatives, Inc.www.engalt.com -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Phillips, Jack
Same thing I think today...waste of money. I almost always take a reusable bottle from home. Fill it from the tap. Safest water in the world. Bottled water has almost no mandated quality control process.Take Care,Max ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Brian Kraut
Boy! I guess I was pretty lucky. I took my first lesson in Sept. 1996 at a small grass strip in Palmyra, Wi. Cessna 150 $30.00/hr. wet, tax included, Instructor $ 15.00. Pay as you go. I could go out and fly with my instructor for 20minutes if I wished.$15.00 cash.After I got my ticket I could rent his Cessna 172 for $40.00/hr. wet, tax included. That was $4.00 for every 6 minutes. Today, I believe the 150 is $40.00/hr wet and the Skyhawk is $55.00. Still pretty reasonable compared to Madison or Middleton.Roman Bukolt NX20795 ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "jimd"
I had hoped that the LSAs would bring things down to a reasonable level, butthat has not happened. Yet. We currently train PPL students in 40 year old junk, but we expect totrain SP students, for less, in brand new equipment.Give it a few years for used LSA to become available to flight schools.I make more than my father did, but I would not be able to let my son startflight training at 13 years old like my father did if I did not own my ownplanes. Your dad didn't pay $75 per month for 150 channels of cable TV, or $75-150per month for cell phones for him, his wife and his kids. He probably drove10 year old cars at best, did his own oil changes, and shut off every lightin the house when not in use. And he probably only dined out once or twiceper month, not three to five times a week and went to the movies once tothree times a year. He had different priorities.Pat________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?

Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Thanks for all the comments guys.I found a tail wheel plane (a C150t) for $70 hr and a tail wheel CFI for $30, thatboth came well recommended. Flown in 150's before, never with a tail wheel,bet its really old. Anyway at least I have something to get going with. BeforeI take my plane up, whenever that is, may get some time in something more challenginglike a Pitts.The local aerobatics place has them with an instructor for $330 an hr.One guess why thats not my first choice for tail wheel time.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Jim,There was never a C150 made with a tail wheel. There was a very good mod called "Texas tail wheel C150" that some had done to their nose picker C150's. I've never flown one but I had a good friend (an Alaskan bush pilot) that had one as his own personal plane and he said he loved it. Sounds like a good plane to take tail wheel training in.Gene>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Matt Dralle
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: CFI with a plane.. where do you find them?>>> Any of you guys have same problem I am having? Found quite a fewtaildragger CFI's. However, haven't been able to find anything in the wayof taildragger rental planes. I am in Kansas City area and need to get myBFR and start getting back up to speed flying something with a tailwheel.There is an aerobatics school with Pitts, but its very pricey.>> Any good deals on tailwheel rentals? I might travel and spend a weeksomewhere or something.>> Have a while till my biplane GN-1 is done, but checking in to it hassuprised me.>> Checked EAA site, found CFI's, all said same thing.. you have a plane?>> Jim>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:02:22 -0800