Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "bhassel"
I'd be interested in finding a set of plans.PM me or email me!Thanks,BobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet - GN! differences

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
I am still trying to figure this all out (as a newbie).Am I correct in understanding that the GN1 is a Piet with a stronger airframe/wing?What are the differences?A beefier structure sounds like a good idea to me since that pretty well fits mydescription...Bob Santa Fe, NMRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi Bob,Since your earlier post, I have been trying to find my GN1 plans. I haveboth Piet and GN1 plans. It has been many years since I looked at the GN1,but, to my best recollection, the GN1 had its own wing, but also offered thechoice of J3, T-craft, or 7AC wings. It also had a somewhat different control stick arrangement, but I don'trecall the differences in framing sizes (beefier?). Another option was theuse of J3, etc. landing gear, with steel spreaders in the fuselage.It is my opinion that a trained eye can tell the difference between a GN1and a Piet, solely by the profile - something about the slender fuse on thePiet.That's what I recall...now if I could only find those plans for you...Gary Boothe Cool, CA -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"

Original Posted By: "Dick Navratil"
Bob,There are quite a few differences between the Pietenpol Air Camper and theGrega GN-1 Aircamper. Most of them are not noticable to the casual viewer.The GN-1 was designed as a modernized version of the Ford Model A poweredPietenpol, using a 65HP Continental, and making use of many salvaged partsfrom J-3 Cubs and the like (landing gear, fuel tank, etc). Back when theplans were drawn up, those salvaged parts were fairly plentiful, and cheap(not so anymore). There was an option to install a Cub wing rather thanbuilding a new wing from scratch. Grega also felt that the fuselage neededto be beefed up, so he extended the plywood skins all the way back to thetailpost. I haven't heard of any plans-built Pietenpols failing behind thepilot's seat, so I'm not sure why he felt this was necessary. Most AirCampers are prone to being tail heavy, so added weight in that area wouldnot be an advantage. As I understand it, the GN-1 design does not permit thecabane struts to be tilted fore or aft to help with Weight and Balanceissues, whereas the Pietenpol does have this feature (most Pietenpols end upwith the cabanes tilted back a few inches.)There are many other, more subtle differences, such as design of fittings,location of the rudder control horns, side stringers, airfoil leading edge,etc. Take a scan through the archives to learn more.Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"
There is a brief discussion of the differences on the www.westcoastpiet.com site. Also it is a great place to look around at both Grega's and Pietenpol's in various stages of construction. The Grega's have GN-1 listed by the names. (Most the really neat stuff is under photos.)JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 12:17:52 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
>From the horses mouth... http://web.archive.org/web/200406071336 ... ------Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things thatyou didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sailaway from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.Discover.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 03:54:42 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: "kmccune"
Al,These Crankshafts are manufactured in a facility that is ISO9001 & QS9000 Certified.QS9000 is a quality control standard developed by the "Big Three" Ford, GM & Chrysler.This same manufacture produces Crankshafts for Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, VW, Caterpillar,Nissan, Toyota, Cleveland Diesel, and a few others that have slippedmy mind at the moment.This Facility Is in Beijing China.If you have a philosophical opposition to Chinese products you should not buy one.You should also carefully research where the rest of the products in your lifeand their components are manufactured.You may be terribly surprised.We have had the First crankshaft we received from this manufacturer thoroughlytested for both Chemical composition and Heat Treating by a reputable Metallurgicallaboratory here in Seattle WA.This Company does a lot of work for the Boeing Company.The results were beyond our expectations.These are very high quality Crankshafts.Thank you,--------Brady McCormickPoulsbo, WAwww.magnificentmachine.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences

Original Posted By: "Ryan Mueller"
Pietenpol family--------Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things thatyou didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sailaway from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.Discover.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:23:27 -0600

Original Posted By: Jonathan Ragle
Kevin,You say you are researching for your next project. If you (or anyone else) areconsidering buying Grega GN-1 plans, I think you might be out of luck, as theGN-1 plans have not been offered for sale for over a year.The plans offered for sale by the Pietenpol family are not plans for a "ModernPietenpol". They sell plans for the original 1933 Ford Model A powered "ImprovedAir Camper", as designed by Bernard Pietenpol, and drawn by a teen-aged OrrinHoopman (I think 8 sheets 24" x 36"). Also available from the Pietenpol familyare the supplementary plans, which include the necessary information and drawingsif you intend to power your project with a small Continental or a Corvairengine, instead of the Ford Model A (I think this is 6 sheets 24" x 36").There is also a drawing available with details on how to build the three-piecewing - as opposed to the one-piece original wing design (1 sheet 24" x 36").Not clear as to what else you are unsure about. Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Hey Gene - on the subject of North Slope - are you still traveling up there? Ihaven't been up in about 10 years now. Last trip was November of 1997. Minus 35to -40f temps, but it was beautiful. Arctic Fox running around. There was aPolar bear vs. Brown bear (I think - it may have been a black beer though) fightthe day before I got there. Blood all over by the pipeline. While there, oneof the I&E guys accidentally tripped CGF-1 offline and the whole facility wenton flare for several hours until they got the control system up and runningagain. It was around midnight when it happened, but you could have read thefine print on a legal contract outside with no lights on and your eyes closed...Regarding steel quality - I totally agree that there have been quality issues inthe past on the more standard types of equipment - we've all experienced that.But of the tighter controlled stuff (like I deal with), it's pretty good now-a-days.Probably 75+% of the actuators/valves and regulators installed up therenow are ex-US castings/forgings.Wish it was a beautiful Tennessee day here in Iowa. We got a bunch of snow yesterday,it's cold, and of course - it's windy.Cheers!Lorin--------Lorin MillerWaiex N81YXPietenpol next upRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet - GN! differences

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
I've noticed some comments about the size of Piet cockpits, pilots, and passengers.Although the cockpits are not spacious, for the normal sized person theyare adequate. I'm 6' 3" and about 185 lbs. I fit very nicely in the rear cockpit.It is straight off of the long fuselage plans. I don't have a flop onthe wing so a certain technique has to be exercised to get in, but once thatis mastered getting in and out is a very easy. I, like many other Piet pilotshave flown many passengers. That's the beauty of the design, giving rides. The front cockpit is a little more snug than the rear, but again with the righttechnique it is also very simple. Again at my height I have no trouble at allgetting in and out. My most common passenger is my dad and he is about 6'2" and around 225 lbs. I've got to say there is nothing quite like sharing asunset that just seems to hang on at the end of a long summer day or the mistycovered ground right at sunrise. Giving rides is probably the most enjoyablepart of my whole Pietenpol experience. From building the first rib several yearsago to taking my daughter to breakfast last weekend. People really remembera ride in a Pietenpol.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 04:58:27 -0500

Original Posted By: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Beware- the feds are coming to "help"Dear Piet listers, Please be advised our overreaching federal government is at it again, slowly but surely trying to erode our freedoms in the name of "safety". It is onlygoing to get worse with this new administration we have. This proposal does not effect us directly, but we are next. Do not doubt it. Dan H. TSA Aviation Proposals Raise Civil Liberties Questions EAA and allies appeal for extension of comment period October 29, 2008 =94 Upon receiving and reviewing a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that the Transportation Security Administration issued today, EAA immediately objected to the posted public-comment period of only 60 days. The NPRM calls for sweeping new security requirements on the operation of all aircraft exceeding 12,500 pounds =93 commercial and personal-use aircraft alike. Because of the onerous requirements and encroachment on personal freedoms suggested in the NPRM, EAA contends that the NPRM should have a comment period of no less than 120 days. Several allies, including Missouri Congressman Sam Graves, an active EAA member, have joined EAA in filing objections to the comment period's 60-day duration. "These proposed rules would have dramatic ramifications for aircraft operators," said Earl Lawrence, EAA vice president of industry and regulatory affairs. =9CFurthermore, they raise serious questions in the areas of interstate commerce, government authority, civil liberties, and Constitutional rights.Rulemaking proposals that present the potential for such dramatic consequences require more than a mere 60 days for public to study and comment on them.=9D The TSA's proposed rules would impose numerous requirements on the operators of these aircraft, even those operating the aircraft for private and personal use, including the following * The owner/operator must assign a security director to oversee flight operations. * The security director must obtain TSA approval for the security program associated with every operation of the aircraft. * The security program must be audited and approved by the TSA. * The owner/operator must submit fingerprints of all flight-crew members to the TSA. * The owner/operator must submit a passenger manifest for each flightto the TSA. "Once again we're seeing an unwarranted and unrealistic hyper-focus on airplanes as potential instruments of terror, when real-life experience shows that trucks, automobiles, and computers can pose equal, or even greater, threats. This is about our nation's ongoing struggle to strike the right balance between upholding thepersonal freedoms and rights that make our country great and taking the necessary steps to address and prevent legitimate threats to our security," Lawrence said. "We haven't seen undue restrictions on the use of trucks, for example, because there's an understanding that these are important to interstate commerce and the personal freedom to move persons and objects about the country. We need to foster the same understanding when it comes to the role of personalaircraft in our society," Lawrence said. The NPRM's 60-day comment period expires Dec. 29, 2008. If the TSA adopts the recommendation of EAA and its allies, the 120-day comment period would end March 31, 2009.**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. ttp://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Beware- the feds are coming to "help"

Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
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________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Ken Chambers"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Beware- the feds are coming to "help"In a message dated 11/9/2008 8:56:37 A.M. Central Standard Time, amsafetyc(at)aol.com writes:what's this country coming to?Good buddy, hate to tell you but it's not coming, IT'S HERE**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 16:03:19 -0600

Original Posted By: John Egan