Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Jonathan Ragle
Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and didn'tsee any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an opencockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling to takea night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar could guardagainst the folks sneaking across the border under cover of darkness!We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it atnight.Jeremy in DallasSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: LightsI stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I couldfind are the following:91.209 Aircraft LightsNo person may:(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... -(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light systemunless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collisionlights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety toturn the lights off.And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operatedlights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO.Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Jeremy,Lights in Pietenpols are not too common, but it has been done, on occasion.It is a feature that adds weight for something that likely is rarely goingto be used. There are two Piets that have lights that are based close toBrodhead and regularily attend the annual Piet gathering there. They werebuilt together, and are practically identical. These planes are both poweredby O-200, so they have a bit more power to carry the extra weight. Here's alink to one photo from WestcoastPiet that shows a light in the wing of N57TL(it's twin is N58TL).http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Tim ... 51.JPGBill C.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights> > Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell, althoughthe systems were few and far between. I don't think > there was anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, > and if so, could this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the > alternator/generator requirement?> > Jim Ash> > > -----Original Message-----> >From: Jack Phillips >Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights> >> >> >The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a> >method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a> >battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of> >weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.> >> >Jack Phillips> >NX899JP> >> >-----Original Message-----> >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com> >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of> >outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com> >Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights> >> >> >Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet and> >didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in an> >open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome feeling> >to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar> >could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of> >darkness!> >> >We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly it> >at night.> >> >Jeremy in Dallas> >Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and amethod of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have abattery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot ofweight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I couldfind are the following:91.209 Aircraft LightsNo person may:(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... -(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light systemunless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collisionlights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety toturn the lights off.And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operatedlights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO.Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights. Ihave a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified,at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentals arebased on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group starts inlike 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one red onegreen, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail andbelly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can rememberit right. Jeremy in DallasSent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash

Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: LightsWatch this one closely; once upon a time, I was involved in a discussion of theFAA-acceptable frequencies of light acceptable for nav lights. IIRC the red-orangespectrum from the old-style GaAs led's didn't cut it. Lots more dopantsand spectrums have hit the market since then, so make sure you've got this onenailed down before you get too deep into it. Power output and light-intensityper viewing angle might also be issues.Jim -----Original Message----->From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 8:19 PM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights. I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified,at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentalsare based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group startsin like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one red onegreen, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail andbelly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can rememberit right. >>Jeremy in Dallas>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>-----Original Message----->From: "Jack Phillips" >>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:45:51 >To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could>find are the following:>>91.209 Aircraft Lights>>No person may:>>(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... ->>(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or>(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system>unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision>lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,>because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to>turn the lights off.>>And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated>lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO.>>Jack Phillips>NX899JP>>-----Original Message----->From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell,>although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was>anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could>this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator>requirement?>>Jim Ash>>>-----Original Message----->>From: Jack Phillips >>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a>>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a>>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of>>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.>>>>Jack Phillips>>NX899JP>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of>>outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet>and>>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in>an>>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome>feeling>>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar>>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of>>darkness!>>>>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly>it>>at night.>>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 22:01:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Getting within the color spectrum coordinates is doable. The intensity and anglesis also doable, but will take some work. My goal is to be able to make a setof legal lights and keep the whole thing under 1 amp at 12V. I got into thisbecause our rotax powered Rans has really low source voltage while runningtwo old school wing tip lights, two whelen strobes, radio, transponder, and GPS.Dad was going to buy a set of led lights from AS&S to the tune of $1000. I teach electronics at night and decided to convert his lights to the tune of$40. Now it has progressed to: I've drawn the circuit boards in cad, can havethem printed for $6 ea, $5 for the LEDs in each light, retired military electronicsengineer to do the soldering, and I meet with the plastic molders nextFriday to iron out the price of the housings. Then a load of paperwork, jumpthrough a bunch of FAA hoops, and baby they said I have to fly these lights for150 hrs! When it comes to me making money she always says ok! Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: LightsHow about a wind generator? Not hooked to the engine and just enough to run lights.Blue SkiesSteve D----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Certified is the goal. I anticipate a lot of FAA hoops to jump through. The lightrequirement FARs are 23.1389 23.1391 23.1393 23.1395 23.1397 23.1401 I was able to find the requirements for wind generators, but nothing on years orcharging system requirements for lights. All of our planes have engine drivencharging systems, so were good. Thanks for the info on the article. I'll check it out.Jeremy in Dallas Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:
I have nav lights on my new Piet. I didn't certify for night. It's for safety on hazy days and allows me to fly for the 30 minutes after sunset.Dick N.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com
>To: >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could>find are the following:>>91.209 Aircraft Lights>>No person may:>>(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... ->>(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or>(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system>unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision>lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,>because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to>turn the lights off.>>And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated>lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO.>>Jack Phillips>NX899JP>>-----Original Message----->From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell,>although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was>anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could>this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator>requirement?>>Jim Ash>>>-----Original Message----->>From: Jack Phillips >>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a>>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a>>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of>>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.>>>>Jack Phillips>>NX899JP>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of>>outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet>and>>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in>an>>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome>feeling>>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar>>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of>>darkness!>>>>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly>it>>at night.>>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights

Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
>To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Watch this one closely; once upon a time, I was involved in a discussion of theFAA-acceptable frequencies of light acceptable for nav lights. IIRC the red-orangespectrum from the old-style GaAs led's didn't cut it. Lots more dopantsand spectrums have hit the market since then, so make sure you've got this onenailed down before you get too deep into it. Power output and light-intensityper viewing angle might also be issues.>>Jim >>>-----Original Message----->>From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 8:19 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights.I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified,at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentalsare based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group startsin like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one redone green, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail andbelly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can rememberit right. >>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: "Jack Phillips" >>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:45:51 >>To: >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could>>find are the following:>>>>91.209 Aircraft Lights>>>>No person may:>>>>(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... ->>>>(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or>>(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system>>unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision>>lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,>>because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to>>turn the lights off.>>>>And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated>>lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO.>>>>Jack Phillips>>NX899JP>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell,>>although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was>>anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could>>this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator>>requirement?>>>>Jim Ash>>>>>>-----Original Message----->>>From: Jack Phillips >>>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>>>>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a>>>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a>>>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of>>>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.>>>>>>Jack Phillips>>>NX899JP>>>>>>-----Original Message----->>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of>>>outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet>>and>>>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in>>an>>>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome>>feeling>>>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar>>>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of>>>darkness!>>>>>>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly>>it>>>at night.>>>>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________