Pietenpol-List: advantages of no electrics under Class B
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:01 pm
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: LightsCool - If you've gone this far are you going to run it throught some DO-160 stuff andget it certified, too?While we're here, it seems to me Jim Weir just wrote up an article in the lastmonth or two of Kitplanes talking about a low-loss switching supply that mightwork for your purposes instead of just the basic current-limiting resistors.Didn't really read it yet. Chances are, that if you doodle with electronics it'sa pretty simple design. Jim-----Original Message----->From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Getting within the color spectrum coordinates is doable. The intensity and anglesis also doable, but will take some work. My goal is to be able to make aset of legal lights and keep the whole thing under 1 amp at 12V. I got into thisbecause our rotax powered Rans has really low source voltage while runningtwo old school wing tip lights, two whelen strobes, radio, transponder, and GPS.Dad was going to buy a set of led lights from AS&S to the tune of $1000.I teach electronics at night and decided to convert his lights to the tune of$40. Now it has progressed to: I've drawn the circuit boards in cad, can havethem printed for $6 ea, $5 for the LEDs in each light, retired military electronicsengineer to do the soldering, and I meet with the plastic molders nextFriday to iron out the price of the housings. Then a load of paperwork, jumpthrough a bunch of FAA hoops, and baby they said I have to fly these lightsfor 150 hrs! When it comes to me making money she al !> ways says ok! >>>Jeremy in Dallas >>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>-----Original Message----->From: Jim Ash >>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 20:38:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00)>To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Watch this one closely; once upon a time, I was involved in a discussion of theFAA-acceptable frequencies of light acceptable for nav lights. IIRC the red-orangespectrum from the old-style GaAs led's didn't cut it. Lots more dopantsand spectrums have hit the market since then, so make sure you've got this onenailed down before you get too deep into it. Power output and light-intensityper viewing angle might also be issues.>>Jim >>>-----Original Message----->>From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 8:19 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights.I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified,at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentalsare based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group startsin like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one redone green, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail andbelly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can rememberit right. >>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: "Jack Phillips" >>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:45:51 >>To: >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could>>find are the following:>>>>91.209 Aircraft Lights>>>>No person may:>>>>(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... ->>>>(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or>>(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system>>unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision>>lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,>>because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to>>turn the lights off.>>>>And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated>>lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO.>>>>Jack Phillips>>NX899JP>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell,>>although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was>>anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could>>this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator>>requirement?>>>>Jim Ash>>>>>>-----Original Message----->>>From: Jack Phillips >>>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>>>>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a>>>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a>>>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of>>>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.>>>>>>Jack Phillips>>>NX899JP>>>>>>-----Original Message----->>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of>>>outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet>>and>>>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in>>an>>>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome>>feeling>>>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar>>>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of>>>darkness!>>>>>>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly>>it>>>at night.>>>>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: advantages of no electrics under Class B Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:31:02 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: LightsCool - If you've gone this far are you going to run it throught some DO-160 stuff andget it certified, too?While we're here, it seems to me Jim Weir just wrote up an article in the lastmonth or two of Kitplanes talking about a low-loss switching supply that mightwork for your purposes instead of just the basic current-limiting resistors.Didn't really read it yet. Chances are, that if you doodle with electronics it'sa pretty simple design. Jim-----Original Message----->From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Getting within the color spectrum coordinates is doable. The intensity and anglesis also doable, but will take some work. My goal is to be able to make aset of legal lights and keep the whole thing under 1 amp at 12V. I got into thisbecause our rotax powered Rans has really low source voltage while runningtwo old school wing tip lights, two whelen strobes, radio, transponder, and GPS.Dad was going to buy a set of led lights from AS&S to the tune of $1000.I teach electronics at night and decided to convert his lights to the tune of$40. Now it has progressed to: I've drawn the circuit boards in cad, can havethem printed for $6 ea, $5 for the LEDs in each light, retired military electronicsengineer to do the soldering, and I meet with the plastic molders nextFriday to iron out the price of the housings. Then a load of paperwork, jumpthrough a bunch of FAA hoops, and baby they said I have to fly these lightsfor 150 hrs! When it comes to me making money she al !> ways says ok! >>>Jeremy in Dallas >>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>-----Original Message----->From: Jim Ash >>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 20:38:13 -0400 (GMT-04:00)>To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>Watch this one closely; once upon a time, I was involved in a discussion of theFAA-acceptable frequencies of light acceptable for nav lights. IIRC the red-orangespectrum from the old-style GaAs led's didn't cut it. Lots more dopantsand spectrums have hit the market since then, so make sure you've got this onenailed down before you get too deep into it. Power output and light-intensityper viewing angle might also be issues.>>Jim >>>-----Original Message----->>From: outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 8:19 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Actually, I'm in the process of manufacturing a line of LED aircraft lights.I have a mass of most confusing FARs and FAA info on getting lights certified,at work. I'll try to post the numbers tomorow. The rules for experimentalsare based on the year finished. The cut off for the latest year group startsin like 1976 or so. Everything after that requires wing tip lights, one redone green, a tail light, and a belly light. The tail can strobe. The tail andbelly can strobe, or the wing tips can both strobe. And that's if I can rememberit right. >>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: "Jack Phillips" >>>>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:45:51 >>To: >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>I stand corrected. I just re-read the FARs and the only requirement I could>>find are the following:>>>>91.209 Aircraft Lights>>>>No person may:>>>>(a) During the period from sunset to sunrise... ->>>>(1) Operate an aircraft unless it has lighted position lights; or>>(b) Operate an aircraft that is equipped with an anti-collision light system>>unless it has lighted anti-collision lights. However the anti-collision>>lights need not be lighted when the pilot-in-command determines that,>>because of operating conditions, it would be in the interest of safety to>>turn the lights off.>>>>And that is all that is said about it. Sounds to me like battery operated>>lights are OK. Still it might be good to check with your local DAR or FSDO.>>>>Jack Phillips>>NX899JP>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 7:31 PM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>Originally, Cubs optionally had basic running lights powered by a dry cell,>>although the systems were few and far between. I don't think there was>>anything more than that. Would that be grandfathered in, and if so, could>>this somehow be applied to a Piet to skip the alternator/generator>>requirement?>>>>Jim Ash>>>>>>-----Original Message----->>>From: Jack Phillips >>>Sent: Sep 3, 2008 6:47 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>>>>The FAA requires that to fly after dark an airplane must have lights and a>>>method of generating electrical power in flight. Thus you've got to have a>>>battery and a generator or alternator. As someone else said, it's a lot of>>>weight to carry around for something you will use a couple of times a year.>>>>>>Jack Phillips>>>NX899JP>>>>>>-----Original Message----->>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com>>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of>>>outofthebox50(at)yahoo.com>>>Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:16 PM>>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lights>>>>>>>>>Is anyone running lights? I looked at several planes on west coast piet>>and>>>didn't see any. Granted many pc you live in places where night flying in>>an>>>open cockpit would be a little chilly. It would be quite an awesome>>feeling>>>to take a night flight in an open cockpit on warm Texas nights. Oscar>>>could guard against the folks sneaking across the border under cover of>>>darkness!>>>>>>We're not going to put lights on ours, but I would love to be able to fly>>it>>>at night.>>>>>>Jeremy in Dallas>>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: advantages of no electrics under Class B Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:31:02 -0500
> >> >Steve Ruse> >Norman, OK> >> >Quoting "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" >> >> (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" >>> >>> >> One thing to keep in mind is that you DON'T need a mode C transponder to> >> fly> >> under Class B (like I have here in Cleveland) airspace if you omit an> >> electrical> >> system. Champs, Cubs, Luscombes, and Piets w/out electrical can come> >> and go under> >> Class B without spending the $$$ on a Mode C transponder. I understand> >> the guys> >> like Jack Phillips who need the transponder due to the airports they> >> frequent or> >> are 'under' but otherwise but otherwise save the weight, save your> >> money, and climb> >> better, take more camping gear, less filling, tastes great.> >>> >> Mike C.> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________