Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: shad bell
In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter-built from a battery drill.Anyone hear of any/all tips.-PS I just want to touch a button.-- :^)--walt evansNX140DL--=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 08:11:33 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: shad bell
In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter built from a battery drill.Anyone hear of any/all tips.PS I just want to touch a button. :^)walt evansNX140DL________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 08:01:47 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: Ameet Savant

Original Posted By: walt
The latest Sport Aviation or perhaps Sport Pilot has an article about the guy who did this and will do it for others. I talked to him and all he wants is~$1800 to do one for your plane--Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Tim Willis
Propping the engine is something I have mixed feelings about. On one hand=2C I like the utter simplicity of having no electrics=2C no starter=2C no gadgets and no messing about. On the other hand=2C I worry about the engine stopping sometime with only moments to spare for a retry in flight=2C and not being able to give it another try at starting by just punching a button or pulling a handle.It's not really something I should worry about... they always say the main thing to do when the engine quits is to fly the airplane and not worry with gadgets that might distract. I have found my airplane to be extremely simple and fuss-free=2C easy and quick to start now that I know the drill=2C and not at all difficult to prop. I also think it adds an aura of "old time-ness" to the whole flight when it begins with a hand-prop. It's how I learned to fly and it always works.On the other hand=2C there is a lot to be said for being in the cockpit=2C strapped in=2C brakes set=2C and in control of everything when the engine is lit. There is no doubt that electric (or other automatic) starters have something to be said for them. For now=2C though=2C I'm starter-free and happy with that. I sure wouldn't pay $1800 for a starter unless I lost the physical ability to prop my airplane=2C and then I might be out of luck flying entirely.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:50:41 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Jim=3B the way I start my 65 is pretty specific to the Stromberg NA-S3A1 carb. What carb do you have on yours?Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Oscar, my carb is the same as yours, NA-S3A1, per my engine log book.-Jim ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Lagowski Morrow"
Jim=3BI'll pass along the things that I learned from others on this list=2C things that have helped me be able to almost always start my engine=2C hot or cold. That was not always the case!First of all=2C understand that the Stromberg has a separate fuel circuit for when the main butterfly is closed or nearly so=2C for idle. I guess there is not enough impulse at very low throttle settings to suck fuel up through the main jet. This becomes important in the starting drill because many old-timers assume that the throttle is to be 'cracked' to start=2C but that's for carbs with idle cutoff (which the Stromberg doesn't have) and for starting I pull mine all the way back to the idle stop so the carb draws fuel through the idle circuit only.Cold starts are easy=2C and I don't have impulse on either of my mags=2C don't have a primer=2C don't swing my leg=2C and I was once the 90-pound weakling in my class so I'm not exactly Mr. Atlas. My point is=2C it's not a difficult prop to swing and the compression is so low that it's no sweat unless you flood the engine and have to swing it a bunch more times. More on that later.For cold starts=2C I set mags off and wheels chocked=2C fuel on=2C throttle back to the stop=2C and pull the prop through a half-dozen blades fairly slowly. Then mags hot and prop the engine briskly but no need to throw a huge amount of effort into it. The other small detail about swinging the prop=2C something that has been mentioned on this list before=2C is to start the prop swing slightly upward first=2C then down. It should sort of slurp fuel in on the slight uptick and then fire on the downswing. It's all done in one motion. Done this way my engine will usually fire on the second pull.For hot starts=2C the key is to shut down the engine the right way or it will be flooded and will be a pain to start when you try. This always used to be the case when I'd land for fuel and try to start back up again... it would flood and I'd wear myself out. So the key to shutting it down when you're going to be starting it back up fairly soon is to kill it with the mag switch and as the engine winds down=2C ease the throttle open so it's pulling in plenty of air as it shuts down. If the throttle is left at idle when the engine is shut down=2C with no spark the engine pulls fuel through the idle circuit and it doesn't get ignited and sits there=2C flooding the engine. Once the engine stops=2C pull the throttle back to the stop=2C shut off the fuel valve=2C and you're shut down. For flooded starts=2C shut off the fuel=2C chock the wheels=2C kill the ignition=2C open the throttle all the way=2C and start pulling the prop through backwards. Once you've pulled it a dozen or so times=2C look to see if fuel is still dripping out of the intake box. At any rate=2C the best thing to do is cool your heels for 10-15 minutes to let excess fuel evaporate (throttle still wide open and fuel shut off). Then what I do is put the throttle back to the idle stop=2C turn on the mags and fuel=2C and try normal start. If it doesn't start in the first couple of attempts=2C it's still flooded and you need to repeat the drill. Mine usually starts on the second effort because I get impatient with all those fools standing around laughing at me trying to start my old timey airplane and I try to short-cut the process.On the shutdown procedure=2C some would argue that the engine should be stopped by shutting off the fuel and letting the engine run itself out of fuel. That's OK too=2C but not the way I do it because I like to have the float bowl full and ready for the next flight. And remember that the Stromberg does NOT have idle cutoff=2C so you still need to kill the engine with the ignition even though it runs out of fuel. Don't forget to turn off the mags!!!Whew! I'm wearing out my starter just writing about it! Honestly=2C after a couple of dozen flights in different conditions=2C hand-propping comes pretty automatically unless something is wrong (spark=2C air=2C or fuel...)Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio=2C TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Oscar, Thank you, thank you for sharing your experience, especially since we have the same carb. and no electric start. I really appreciate your help, which will be put to good use as soon as it warms up a bit.---Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright

Original Posted By: "conceptmodels tds.net"
> In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand> propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter> built from a battery drill.> Anyone hear of any/all tips.> > PS I just want to touch a button. :^)> > > walt evans> NX140DL ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:48:13 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil