Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Thanks Jim. I haven't htought about the plywood yet. I was wonderingwhat i'd ask for if not ordering from AS&S...Thanks!MarkOn Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Jim wrote:>>> Jim Boyer> Santa Rosa, CA> Pietenpol builder with Corvair>> Mark go to a local -lumberyard that stocks multiple varieties of wood. I bought all of mine including some cedar for the turtledeck stringers from a local lumberyard called Mead-Clark. They also ordered 3mm (1/8 inch) and 6mm (1/4 inch) marine mahogony for me. I paid about a third of the price for the marine ply that you would pay if you bought it from AS&S or any of the aircraft houses. The kiln dried Doug Fir total cost was right at $300 for it all (not including the sheets of ply mentioned above). They also allowed me to go through their DF and select the boards I wanted. All of mine were very good quarter sawn planks. I know some of the local lumberyards won't let you select from their stock but there are some that will. Good luck finding one. Also ask Gary Boothe where he got his popular; from his photos it all looked very good as well.> Jim B.>>> On Jun 24, 2009, mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:>>> Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some> wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started> now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA> wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport> Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection> (grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my> local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one> pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.>> So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way before:>> 1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any> potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,> that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish> this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4> months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it> won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." - What is> the correct 'Me"?>> 2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4> x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but> wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that> 4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the> proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain> direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not> really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without> verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading> correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be> rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the> center of the log...>> 3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my> question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the> train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber> yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very> smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my> memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when> shopping for DF?>>> OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the> contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood> specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,> really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring> him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of> Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can> "still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was> hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my> website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side> of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,> I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x> 4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.> Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I> know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,> I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not> kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a> peetenhauller or something...">> And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS> lumber yard.>> I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here locally...>> Any advice always deeply appreciated.>> Mark>>le, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:04:14 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: Jim

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: Michael Groah

Original Posted By: "Mark Roberts"
4X4, 1X6, etc is what's known as "nominal" size and it'scalled that because the original rough cut piece was thatexact size. Once it has been planed, whether as you buyit or plane it yourself the real, measured dimension isnow 3 1/3" X 3 1/2" or 3/4" X 5 1/2". So you're notgonna get four one inch square pieces out of that 4X4you bought.To minimize warpage the grain should be as close to90 to the face side on a wide board like a wing spar or90 across a square piece like a fuselage stringer.Fir can be a bit of a crap shoot due to the presence ofpitch pockets. They come in all sizes and can hide inthe smallest piece of wood. I used Hemlock which isused mainly as trim wood. In shorter lengths for thetail feathers, cap strips, fuselage cross bracing, it'seasy to find straight, clear grain. The longerons area tad more difficult. I used 1 1/16"X 1 1/16" lengths.Wonderful stuff to work with. Oh, yes, it also is madein 1/4"X 1/2" strips.I lucked into a fuel filter with 3/8" fittings. With thesteel bowl and heavy filter it was quite heavy. I alsofound a " bowl" that came off a Chev truck wheel thatis much lighter than the original. I've eliminated thehuge filter element and will make a screen for it. Iaquired some aeroquip made up hoses and 3/8" blueflare fittings for about ten bucks a while back. I'vesettled on the carb orientation so the throttle arm iswhere I want it and cut off one end of a hose, tookapart the fitting, cut the hose to length and put thefitting on it. The carb is now 90 from where it isin the pic. The whole thing cost about $20. It justneed a proper center bolt.Clif"Imagination grows by exercise, and contrary to commonbelief, is more powerful in the mature than in the young." ~ Sir Paul McCartney----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
> I went to Home Depot today to test my> local supply and found they only have Green Doug FirMark:Big Orange is ok to buy your cheapo plastic base table saw and other Chinesetools, but 99% of the lumber there is shear garbage and is not suited forbuilding shipping palates, I hesitate to use any of it to build a deck let alone a plane. They buy their lumber from the cheapest suppliers that can getthem the largest volume for the lowest price. Quality control be dammed.Most of their lumber is cut from immature saplings, the kind you get two2x4s out of one tree and is full of knots. Even their "select" trim isbarely suited for strapping.For Fir I would look up a specialty lumberyard or even a flooring supplierthough most of your stock there would be 3/4. Being on the left coast youshould have an easier time locating good stock than us right coasters.Michael in soggy Maine________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:27:39 -0400

Original Posted By: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Mark,It never hurts to check the big box stores, I got the wood for my cap strips from Menards in the form of a 4x4 12 feet long perfect grain, excellent run out. Also look for Vertical Grain Doug Fir flooring, depending on stock width using a thin kerf blade you can cut your cap strips from that. Look in the yellow pages for a sawmill since you live in California, there should not be a problem finding one that has rough cut lumber.as a side note when you start cutting your cap strips where ever you stack them place a big sign on them that says "Don't Touch". I had a dozen and a half sitting on the back side of the table saw fence, my son came over looking for some stakes for marking the rows in his garden. He thought "hey" trimmings, so now I get to go back and find some more flooring.Jake________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
Mark,I got all my Sitka Spruce locally from a company here in Salt Lake citycalled MacBeth Hardwoods. It is beautiful wood, all vertical grain andthey sell it in 2x6 and 1x12 boards 16ft long. It is rough sawn so it isthe actual dimensions. They also carry all the ply one needs for thePiet. I would only use big box store wood for the mock-pit. My 2 cents.BrianSLC-UT________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Grover Summers
Sorry, but you can't get four 1X1's out of 3 1/2" X 3 1/2".And you're right, ripping a square like that is definitelyharder than working with 2X. It's moot for me anyway,as there isn't that much left to do on my fuselage.My next big project in that regard is the fiberglass fuel tank.Clif Cliff.. It wouldnt be too hard to get 4 longerons> out of a 4X4 provided your saw will cut through it. If you use 2x lumber > it would be a little easier to work with,>> Ben Charvet________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:11:07 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"

Original Posted By:> Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...)Well, I went to the lumber yard today (the REAL lumber yard where theystock un-faced wood...not the big box depots) and saw what I've beenlooking for. They had unfinished poplar in large stacks, banded withstraps to keep it straight, and in more sizes than I could imagine.And, the guy told me that for the 5/4" (1.25") unfinished poplar, itis only $1.80 per boardfoot. I figured I didn't need anything thickerfor the bulk of the fuse than 1" thick stuff, so that's what I amlooking at getting. OK, so a 16 foot length if the stuff, 12" wide isonly $36 and I get to plain it down and saw it up myself. I'm gonnafigure out how many little sticks I need from it, but i am not sureI'll need over $100 bucks worth of the stuff for just the fuse.Now, I am off to determine the relative strength to weight of poplarvs Sitka... Where's my wood book....MarkOn Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:39 AM, wrote:>> Go Mark, build man build>> John> ------Original Message------

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
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dGVyLCBhcyBJIGNhbiBrZWVwIGxvb2tpbmcgdW50aWwgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IG9uZSBjb21lcw0KYWxvbmcuIEkganVzdCB0aG91Z2h0IEkgaGFkIGZvdW5kIGEgZ29vZCBvbmUgcmlnaHQgb3V0IG9mIHRoZSBzaG9vdC4NCg0KVGhhbmtzIGFnYWluIGZvciBhbGwgb2YgdGhlIGhlbHAhDQoNCk1hcmsNCg0KT24gRnJpLCBKdW4gMjYsIDIwMDkgYXQgNjowMyBBTSwgR2FyeSBCb290aGU8Z2Jvb3RoZTVAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiAtLT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJHYXJ5IEJvb3RoZSIgPGdib290aGU1QGNvbWNhc3QubmV0Pg0KPg0KPiBNYXJrLA0KPg0KPiBEaXR0b3MgdG8gd2hhdCBSeWFuIHNhaWQuIEp1c3QgZmluZGluZyBhIHVzYWJsZSBjcmFuayBtaWdodCBiZSB2ZXJ5DQo+IGJlbmVmaWNpYWwgZG93biB0aGUgcm9hZC4gU29tZSBndXlzIGZpbmQgYSBnb29kIGVuZ2luZSwganVzdCB0byBsZWFybiB0aGF0DQo+IHRoZWlyIGNyYW5rIGlzIGNyYWNrZWQgb3IgYmVudC4gVGhlcmUgYXJlIG90aGVyIHBhcnRzIHdvcnRoIHdoaWxlLCB0b28uDQpTdWNoDQo+IGFzIHRoZSBoZWFkIGNvdmVycywgYmFmZmxlcywgZXRjLiBNeSBjb3JlIGNhbWUgd2l0aG91dCBib3RoIG9mIHRob3NlDQppdGVtcy4NCj4NCj4gR29vZCBsdWNrIHRvIHlvdS4uLmFuZCB0cnkgdG8gcHV0IGEgbGl0dGxlIG1vcmUgZW50aHVzaWFzbSBpbnRvIHlvdXINCj4gcHJvamVjdCENCj4NCj4gR2FyeSBCb290aGUNCj4gQ29vbCwgQ2EuDQo+IFBpZXRlbnBvbA0KPiBXVyBDb3J2YWlyIENvbnZlcnNpb24NCj4gVGFpbCBkb25lLCBGdXNlbGFnZSBvbiBnZWFyDQo+ICgxMyByaWJzIGRvd24uKQ0KPg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KPiBbbWFpbHRvOm93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgUnlhbg0KTXVlbGxlcg0KPiBTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEp1bmUgMjYsIDIwMDkgNDozNyBBTQ0KPiBUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFBvcGxhciAoWWVsbG93KSBhbmQgYSBjb3J2YWlyIGVuZ2luZQ0KPg0KPiAtLT4gUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IFJ5YW4gTXVlbGxlciA8cm11ZWxsZXIyM0BnbWFpbC5jb20+DQo+DQo+IE1hcmssIHlvdSBkaWRuJ3Qgc2F5IGFueXRoaW5nIGFib3V0IGEgY2FyLCBzbyBJJ20gYXNzdW1pbmcgdGhpcyBtb3Rvci8NCj4gdHJhbnMgaXMganVzdCBzaXR0aW5nIG91dCBpbiB0aGUgb3Blbi4gQXMgeW91IHN1c3BlY3QsIHRoZSBmYWN0IHRoYXQNCj4gdGhlIGNhcmJzIGFyZSBvbmx5IHBsdWdnZWQgd2l0aCByYWdzIGFuZCB0aGUgbW90b3Igd2lsbCBub3QgdHVybiB3b3VsZA0KPiBzdWdnZXN0IHRoYXQgd2F0ZXIgaGFzIHJ1biBkb3duIHRocm91Z2ggY2FyYnMsIGludG8gdGhlIGhlYWRzLCBhbmQNCj4gdGhyb3VnaCB0aGUgb3BlbiB2YWx2ZXMgaW50byB0aGUgY3lsaW5kZXJzLiBJbiBhZGRpdGlvbiB0byBoYXZpbmcNCj4gcGlzdG9ucyBmcm96ZW4gaW4gdGhlaXIgYm9yZXMgaXQgaXMgaGlnaGx5IGxpa2VseSB0aGF0IHNvbWUgKGlmIG5vdA0KPiBhbGwpIG9mIHRoZSBjb21idXN0aW9uIGNoYW1iZXJzIG9uIHRoZSBoZWFkcyB3aWxsIGJlIHBpdHRlZCwgcmVuZGVyaW5nDQo+IHRoZW0gdXNlbGVzcyB0byB5b3UgZm9yIGFuIGFpcmNyYWZ0IGNvbnZlcnNpb24uDQo+DQo+IElmIHRoZSBndXkgd2FudHMgdG8ganVzdCBnZXQgaXQgZ29uZSwgaXQgY291bGQgYmUgd29ydGggb2ZmZXJpbmcgJDI1DQo+IG9yICQ1MC4gSXQncyBwb3NzaWJsZSB0aGUgY2FzZSwgY2FtLCBvciBjcmFuayBjb3VsZCBiZSB1c2FibGUgY29yZXMsDQo+IGFuZCBpdCBjYW4ndCBodXJ0IHRvIGhhdmUgbW9yZSBvZiB0aGUgbWlzYyBzbWFsbCBwYXJ0cy4gWW91IGNvdWxkIGFsc28NCj4gdXNlIGEganVuayBjYXNlIGxhdGVyIG9uIGRvd24gdGhlIGxpbmUgYXMgYSBtb2NrdXAgaWYgbmVlZCBiZS4gSGF2aW5nDQo+IHNhaWQgYWxsIHRoYXQsIEkgcmVjYWxsIHlvdSBzYXlpbmcgZWFybGllciB0aGF0IHlvdSBoYWQgbm90IGJvdWdodA0KPiBXaWxsaWFtJ3MgbWFudWFsIHlldDsgSSB3b3VsZCBwdXQgdGhlICQ1MCB0b3dhcmRzIGhpcyBjb252ZXJzaW9uDQo+IG1hbnVhbCBpbnN0ZWFkIG9mIHRoaXMgZW5naW5lLiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBtYW51YWwgd291bGQgYmUgbW9yZSB1c2VmdWwNCj4gdG8geW91IGF0IHRoaXMgcG9pbnQgdGhhbiBhIHF1ZXN0aW9uYWJsZSBjb3JlLiBIYXZlIGEgZ29vZCBkYXksDQo+DQo+IFJ5YW4NCj4NCj4gU2VudCBmcm9tIG15IGlQaG9uZQ0KPg0KPiBPbiBKdW4gMjYsIDIwMDksIGF0IDE6MTUgQU0sIE1hcmsgUm9iZXJ0cyA8bWFyay5yYnJ0czFAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4NCj4+IC0tPiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogTWFyayBSb2JlcnRzIDxtYXJrLnJicnRzMUBnbWFpbC5jb20NCj4+ID4NCj4+DQo+PiBJJ20gcmVhZGluZyB0aGUgRUFBIHdvb2QgYm9vayB0b25pZ2h0IGFmdGVyIHJldHVybmluZyBmcm9tIGxvb2tpbmcgYXQNCj4+IGEgQ29ydmFpciBFbmdpbmUgdGhhdCB3YXMgYSBoZWFydCBicmVha2VyLiBEcm92ZSBhYm91dCAyIGhvdXJzIGF3YXkNCj4+IGZyb20gbXkgaG9tZSB0byBsb29rIGF0IHRoaXMgbW90b3IgdG8gc2VlIHdoYXQgSSBjb3VsZCBzZWUuIEFsb25nIHRoZQ0KPj4gd2F5IEkgY2FsbGVkIFBhdCBQYW56ZXJhIChhIGJvbmEgZmlkZSByZWFsbHkgbmljZSBndXkgYnkgdGhlIHdheSkgYW5kDQo+PiBoZSB0YWxrZWQgbWUgdGhyb3VnaCB3aGF0IHRvIGxvb2sgZm9yLCBhbmQgYWZ0ZXIgSSBmb3VuZCB0aGUgbnVtYmVycw0KPj4gd2hlcmUgaGUgdG9sZCBtZSB0byBsb29rLCBJIHRob3VnaHQgSSBtaWdodCBoYXZlIGZvdW5kIG15IGVuZ2luZSBmb3INCj4+IGFib3V0IDEwMCBidWNrcy4gSSBnb3QgdG8gdGhlIGd1eXMgYm9uZSB5YXJkLCBsb29rZWQgdXAgdGhlIGhlYWQNCj4+IG51bWJlcnMgYW5kIEV1cmVrYSEgVGhlIGhlYWRzIHdlcmUgMTEwIEhQIHB1cmUgZ29sZCEgIFNjcmFwZWQgb2ZmIHRoZQ0KPj4gZGlydCBmcm9tIHRoZSBjYXNlIGJsb2NrIGFuZCB3aGF0ZG95YWtub3chIFRoZSBjYXNlIGlzIDExMCBIUCB0b28hDQo+PiBHcmFiIGEgd3JlbmNoLCBwdXQgdGhlIHRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBpbnRvIG5ldXRyYWwgYW5kIHR1cm4sLCwgYW5kIHRyeQ0KPj4gdGhhdCBhZ2FpbiwsLCwgbm8gbHVjay4gVGhlIG1vdG9yIHdvdWxkIG5vdCByb3RhdGUuIEEgbGl0dGxlIGNsb3NlDQo+PiBsb29rIGFuZCB0aGUgcGx1ZyB3aXJlcyB3ZXJlIG5vdCBjb25uZWN0ZWQgdG8gcGx1Z3MuIFRoZSBjYXJiIGhvbGVzDQo+PiB3ZXJlIHN0dWZmZWQgd2l0aCByYWdzLCBhbmQgSSBoYXZlIGEgc25lYWtpbmcgc3VzcGljaW9uIHRoZSBwaXN0b25zDQo+PiBhcmUgcnVzdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBjeWxpbmRlciB3YWxscy4gIEFmdGVyIHRoZSBleGFtIEkgY2FsbGVkIFBhdCBiYWNrDQo+PiBhbmQgZm91bmQgb3V0IGl0IHdhcyBwcm9iYWJseSBhIGJ1c3QgaW4gdGhhdCB0aGUgbW90b3Igd2FzIG1vc3QgbGlrZWx5DQo+PiB3b3J0aGxlc3MuIEJ1bW1lci4gSSBtYXkgc3RpbGwgdHJ5IHRvIGdldCBpdCBhbmQgbWFrZSBhIGRlYWwgd2l0aCB0aGUNCj4+IGd1eSB0aGF0IEknbGwgcGF5IGhpbSBpZiBJIGNhbiB1c2UgYW55IG9mIGl0LiBIZSBzYWlkIGl0J3Mgbm90IHdvcnRoDQo+PiBtdWNoIHRvIGhpbSBzaXR0aW5nIG91dCBpbiB0aGUgcmFpbiA6b1wNCj4+DQo+PiBOb3cgYSBwb3BsYXIgcXVlc3Rpb246IEkgbG9va2VkIGF0IHRoZSBwYWdlIGZyb20gQUM0My4xMyB0aGF0IEdhcnkNCj4+IEJvb3RoZSBzZW50IG1lIHRoYXQgbGlzdHMgUG9wbGFyIChZZWxsb3cpIGFzIGEgcG90ZW50aWFsIHN1YnN0aXR1dGUNCj4+IHdvb2QuIEkgc2VlIGEgbnVtYmVyIG9mIHlvdSBhcmUgYnVpbGRpbmcgd2l0aCBQb3BsYXIsIGFuZCBqdXN0IHdhbnRlZA0KPj4gdG8gY2hlY2sgb24gdGhlIHdlaWdodCBkaWZmZXJlbmNlLiBJIHNlZSBpdCBpcyBzbGlnaHRseSBsZXNzIHN0cm9uZw0KPj4gdGhhbiBTaXRrYSwgYnV0IGhvdyBtdWNoIGhlYXZpZXIgaXMgaXQgb3ZlciBhbGw/IFNpbmNlIHRoZSBwbGFuZSBpcyBhDQo+PiBiaXQgb3ZlciBidWlsdCAoZGVzaWduIHdpc2UpIEkgdGhpbmsgcG9wbGFyIHNvdW5kcyBsaWtlIGEgYmV0dGVyDQo+PiBjaG9pY2UgdGhhbiBmaXIgZm9yIHRoZSBtYWpvcml0eSBvZiB0aGUgYnVpbGQuDQo+Pg0KPj4gKE15IGFwb2xvZ2llcyB0byBKb2huIGlmIHlvdSBtZW50aW9uZWQgdGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgdG9kYXkgb24gdGhlDQo+PiBwaG9uZSBhbmQgSSBoYXZlIGp1c3QgZm9yZ290dGVuLi4uIEl0J3MgaGFwcGVuaW5nIHRvbyBvZnRlbiBsYXRlbHkNCj4+IDpvXCkNCj4+DQo+PiBNYXJrDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQovd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1BpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0Ig0KdGFyZ2V0PV9ibGFuaz5odHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vTmF2aWdhdG9yP1BpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0DQpfZj0iaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tLyINCnRhcmdldD1fYmxhbms+aHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MubmJzcDsNCm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24iID09PT09PT0NCg0KDQoNCg0KIA0KIA0KIA0KDQo________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Go Mark, build man buildJohn------Original Message------

Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...Yep: Kiln dried and stored in a warehouse. Sweet!And, I went to a new computational websearch engine calledWolframalpha.com to look up the weight difference in Poplar and SitkaSpruce. It spits out the density of Sitka at .335g/cm3, and poplar at.38g/cm3 ... And the strength properties listed are extremely close.So I don't think I'll be adding a bunch of weight to the plane, andkeeping the dimensions the same on all wood parts would yield about asmuch weight as if I was sloppy with glue or something. The difference(if I am looking at this properly) is .38 minus .335 or a differenceof .045/cm3 or about 13 percent heavier...13 pounds per 100... for adollar savings of a lot!On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:>> Now you're talkin'!! By the way...that was dried wood, wasn't it? Not stored> outside?>> Gary Boothe> Cool, Ca.> Pietenpol> WW Corvair Conversion> Tail done, Fuselage on gear> (13 ribs down)>> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Now you're talkin'!! By the way...that was dried wood, wasn't it? Not storedoutside?Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear(13 ribs down)-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Proud of ya Mark, go thee forth and make saw dustJohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Grover Summers

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
RE Carb heat muffsAny info please have been advised to keep the muff as close to thecylinder as possible, for an O200 all the pipes are outside the cowl howis enough heat avail due to air coolingAm using 1.5 inch stailess pipesThanks Graham Hewitt----- ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:23:48 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: Steve Glass
Oh Crap! There goes my brain!!!!I do SO love the taste of socks.Clif...You're right, Clif.You can't get four 1x1's out of 3 1/2" x 3 1/2" ... You can get NINE!(see attached sketch)I assume you meant that you can't get four 1" pieces from a 3 1/2"board. Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Insects don't like poplar so it has a natural resistance to infestation. From whatI have read.I like that part too. It keeps one from building an inferior model JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...

Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
>>> Thanks Jim. I haven't htought about the plywood yet. I was wondering> what i'd ask for if not ordering from AS&S...>> Thanks!>> Mark>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Jim wrote:>>>>>>>>>> Jim Boyer>> Santa Rosa, CA>> Pietenpol builder with Corvair>>>> Mark go to a local lumberyard that stocks multiple varieties of wood. I>> bought all of mine including some cedar for the turtledeck stringers from a>> local lumberyard called Mead-Clark. They also ordered 3mm (1/8 inch) and 6mm>> (1/4 inch) marine mahogony for me. I paid about a third of the price for the>> marine ply that you would pay if you bought it from AS&S or any of the>> aircraft houses. The kiln dried Doug Fir total cost was right at $300 for it>> all (not including the sheets of ply mentioned above). They also allowed me>> to go through their DF and select the boards I wanted. All of mine were very>> good quarter sawn planks. I know some of the local lumberyards won't let you>> select from their stock but there are some that will. Good luck finding one.>> Also ask Gary Boothe where he got his popular; from his photos it all looked>> very good as well.>> Jim B.>>>>>> On Jun 24, 2009, mark.rbrts1(at)gmail.com wrote:>>>> Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some>> wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started>> now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA>> wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport>> Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection>> (grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my>> local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one>> pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.>>>> So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way>> before:>>>> 1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any>> potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,>> that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish>> this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4>> months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it>> won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." What is>> the correct 'Me"?>>>> 2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4>> x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but>> wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that>> 4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the>> proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain>> direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not>> really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without>> verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading>> correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be>> rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the>> center of the log...>>>> 3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my>> question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the>> train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber>> yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very>> smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my>> memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when>> shopping for DF?>>>>>> OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the>> contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood>> specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,>> really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring>> him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of>> Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can>> "still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was>> hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my>> website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side>> of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,>> I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x>> 4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.>> Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I>> know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,>> I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not>> kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a>> peetenhauller or something...">>>> And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS>> lumber yard.>>>> I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here>> locally...>>>> Any advice always deeply appreciated.>>>> Mark>>>>> &gvigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato> - MATRONICS WEBnbsp;- List Contribution Web Site ;> &nb; http:=======================>>________________________________________________________________________________