Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing at Oshkosh on SundaySkip is 100% right-- that incident could have happened to anyone of us Lowell. Mother Nature was rough that morning with those gusty conditions. Just a matterof timing in the flare if you're dealt a lull between gusts or you get slammed.There are some days when landing a Pietenpol in gusty conditions shouldqualify one to be certified to ride bulls. Wednesday during the Homebuilt Review Showcase (where they shafted one of our threePietenpol guys--Jack Phillips by cutting one of the Piets out of the event)the Rotec powered Junior Ace from Poplar Grove nearly lost it in similar windconditions when landing. Three times he nearly had his wing tips in the turf--scarystuff but he managed to add power, continue down the runway and geta second chance. I was astonished at the ineptitude of the EAA/FAA/and law enforcement people whokept Lowell and his plane out on the runway for well over an hour. First off---Lowell'swell being, once that was established to not be an issue they shouldhave cleared off and talked with him elsewhere if they needed to. I shouldknow better--if the gov't is involved they will take the least practical pathto a conclusion. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Matt Keyes
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: landing at Oshkosh on SundayYou're looking at an airline pilot son________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:16:44 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Matt,Gary Price developed a door mod for the front seat some years ago, but fewPiets use it. Basically, anyone too large to be able to climb into thefront cockpit of a Piet is probably too heavy to carry anyway. Any door modrequires cutting the upper longeron and that is simply not a good idea,particularly in the area between the cabane struts (and the landinggear/lift strut fittings). Substantial beefing up of the remainingstructure attempts to restore some of the strength lost by cutting thelongeron, and succeeds in adding substantial weight.I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and I can make it into the front 'pit of my Piet withlittle trouble. My wife does it all the time.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kurt Shipman's Piet (Lindy Award winner, Osh "09!) has tabs for floats.Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear(13 ribs down.) _____

Original Posted By: Dan Yocum

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com

Original Posted By: Matt Dralle

Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
My Piet has a door. the fuselage and tail feathers are all welded tubing and the cut-out is reinforced and yes it makes it a lot easier to get in.You cn see numerous pics of my Piet on the Westcoast piet site in it is NX20795.Look under the name Roman Bukolt.On Aug 7, 2009, at 3:16 PM, Matt Keyes wrote:> I was surfing the net the other night during down time at work > (don't tell my boss) and came across a video of a young gentleman > trying to climb into the front seat. It did not look easy. Maybe I > just missed it, but I don't recall seeing any Piets with a door cut > out to make things easier. Has any one had luck with this? If so, > what additional bracing is needed? How about steel fuseluges, are > they more forgiving of such mods? Also, sorry I forgot which one it > was, but one of the beautiful Corvair powered Piets had tabs on the > bottom longeron, aft of the pilot seat... float attachments? Just a > guess.>> Matt>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shipman's fuselage tabsIn speaking with Kurtat Brodhead I believe he indicated those tabs were for snowskis-- the bungee that holds the rear tipsof the skis.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday

Original Posted By: "Chet Hartley"
You fellows ,I don't think you know the half of it, I got a registered letter lateFriday , dated Thursday, saying that I have 10 days from the letter's dateto respond to FAA regarding practically redoing my complete Private License Testslearning over, from getting a tail dragger to be retested , check ride ,Area operations III,, IV etc, Where does one begin ? so far dozens of phone callsjust to find an Instructor with a conventional gear plane, and when askedif it would be OK to take my check-ride in a Pietenpol HA only certified craftwith ALL paper work on the plane complete. and it goes on and on. Still no airplanesyet available and I don't blame anyone to get involved , what a hassleand with over 2000 tail dragger hours.Pieti LowellWednesday during the Homebuilt Review Showcase (where they shafted one of our threePietenpol guys--Jack Phillips by cutting one of the Piets out of the event)the Rotec powered Junior Ace from Poplar Grove nearly lost it in similar windconditions when landing. Three times he nearly had his wing tips in the turf--scarystuff but he managed to add power, continue down the runway and geta second chance. I was astonished at the ineptitude of the EAA/FAA/and law enforcement people whokept Lowell and his plane out on the runway for well over an hour. First off---Lowell'swell being, once that was established to not be an issue they shouldhave cleared off and talked with him elsewhere if they needed to. I shouldknow better--if the gov't is involved they will take the least practical pathto a conclusion. Mike C.[/quote]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Pieti,I have my Piet for sale and I't will be gone by next weekend, but I would be happy to help you out as in getting you reinstated, and the tail dragger endorsment.I'm a CFII with lots of tail dragger time also, I'm sure you can teach me a couple of things.Please fell free to e-mail me or callchethartley1(at)mchsi.com573-645-0534Brent Scott and I know each other and I live only a few miles from him.Chet ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 22:54:50 -0400

Original Posted By: "Jared Yates"
I thought this kind of thing is what your AOPA is for.Clif > Lowell,> > Have you told EAA about this? If this is the treatment you get, why > should anyone fly into Oshkosh, particulalry anyone with a > taildragger?> > Jeff>>>>You fellows ,I don't think you know the half of it, I got a >>registered letter late Friday , dated Thursday, saying that I have >>10 days from the letter's date to respond to FAA regarding >>practically redoing my complete Private License Tests learning over, ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Lowell, I've been through what you are going through, and I must say that itis can be an unpleasant experience. You aren't by chance enrolled in theAOPA legal services plan, are you? I found first-hand that FAA inspectorscan try to overstep their power and duties quite regularly. Having someoneto ask "can they ask me that" made it much easier for me.It is a privilege that they have to re-evaluate any airman, at the airman'sexpense. It stinks, but you'll have to take it seriously! If they don'tgive you a satisfactory result to the checkride, you won't be able to flyanymore. Respond before the deadline, and keep in mind that you don't haveto take the checkride within 10 days, you just have to respond. In my case,it was actually a month or two after the accident before the re-evaluationride.Also note that you aren't obliged to answer questions about the past. TheFAA inspectors know that they don't have the privilege of interrogating youto try and get evidence for a violation. In my case they were trying to usethe reevaluation ride as a chance to do just that. I spent a couple ofhours dodging questions about the accident flight and requesting that theinspector stick to general questions about my qualifications to hold mycertificate. It was a diplomatic tightrope to say the least. I hope thatyou end up with a good FSDO and inspector, and that your experience wasbetter than mine. Let them know that you are going to have trouble findinga tailwheel airplane to rent, and that should buy you some time. You mightalso consider hiring a specialized aviation lawyer if you are not in thelegal services plan, depending on how important it is to you that youcontinue to hold your certificate. You can also find the inspector'shandbook online and read about what the boundries are for the checkride, asfar as what they should and shouldn't be asking you about.>From this point on, take notes about who you talk to at the FAA/NTSB,including the date and time, and a brief summary of the discussion. In mycase my file fell between the cracks on their end, and they tried to accuseme of avoiding the checkride, when they had actually not been returning myphone calls. This is the kind of thing you might be up against! The folksat both the NTSB and the FAA are not your friend. As for the rest of you,think seriously about that legal services plan! As some have said, thistype of thing can happen to any of us.Hang in there! You can do this, but be smart about it.-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Next time.don't hold back. _____

Original Posted By: shad bell

Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
Aw, come on guys, the FAA and the IRS are here to help ya.Gene in Very hot Tennessee ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Darrel Jones

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday

Original Posted By: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
I'll tell you another good one. Last year I got to fly the EA-6BProwler simulator at Whidbey Naval Air Station. As I sat in the leftseat of the sim with the throttles in my left hand and stick in myright, he voice in the headphones was the simulator operator, upin a darkened room somewhere. My buddy Maj. Kyle "Itchy" Rash wasthe right seater and my instructor. Incidentally, Itchy is up forpromotion to LtCol next month, so the beer will soon be flowing.On my second or third attempt at landing the "Prowler" on the deckof a carrier at sea, the voice in the headphones asked, "flying leftseat, what do you normally fly?" to which I responded, "ahhh, youprobably don't know the airplane but it's an experimentalsingle-engine, two-place high winger called a Pietenpol Air Camper".Silence, followed by, "I've always wanted to build one but I'm sixfoot four and don't think I'd fit. It's a great little airplane.Fly your final to the carrier deck just like you'd fly a short andsoft field in the Piet. Give it a try."I nailed the next landing.There are some good folks out there on the other end of the radio,and I'll bet there are still some good folks in the FAA and NTSBtoo. We just need to get them into a Piet and when we're doneflying, sit them in a chair outside the hangar some evening, project"The Great Waldo Pepper" on the side of the hangar wall, andhand them a beer.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver propSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Frankly, most of the FAA employees I have met are themselves pilots and/ormechanics, most with considerably more than 15 years of experience, who loveairplanes and aviation the business of keeping it all safe. Several areairplane builders. But then I have only received the business end of one"inquiry" (inquisition really, but I learned a lot about density altitude).Any large collection of people is going to have a few fools and the FAA isnot exempt. Shad, I'm sorry that your experiences have only brought thoseexceptions to the surface.Mike(one of many) _____

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright

Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
.been working on Taylorcrafts for over 60 years!Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear(13 ribs down.)Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuel quantitygageWill this double as a fuel vent without any probs?Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Gene & Tammy"
Lowell,in 2007 I had a right main gear strut failure and ground looped on the 09-28 runway at Morey.Needless to say the FAA wanted me to prove my flying competence in a certified tail dragger.I took the failed gear to Milw. FSDO to show them the gear was constructed from 0.058 wall tubing, not 0.074 as shown on the plans. Only got a glazed stare from the guy, like he nothing about steel strength. Also knew nothing about the Piet or homebuilts in general. After several letters and arguements about having to train in a J-3 and then hopefully rent it along with all the paperwork that belongs to the aircraft, he finally conceded and came to Moreys after I told him I repaired the plane and had been flying it all summer. He ended up standing out near the end of the runway and watched me do three landings. Then, lo and behold, one year later, similar incident! This time, because the original shock struts had springs designed for a 2200 lb. aircraft, one bolt retaining the spring, sheared out the end of the tube. That was in June.Finally in late September I received the same letter requiring me to prove I can actually fly a Piet. Again we went round and round. This time he said his boss wouldn't let him come watch.So I switched to plan B. (I spent a lifetime as a Machine Design Engineer), so I presented the FSDO with a detailed technical paper complete with charts, and diagrams describing stress loads,both static, dynamic, and impact and how they, over time affected the strut.Weeks later, I received a letter simply saying "the matter was closed".I wonder if he even had any idea what my tech report said.On Aug 7, 2009, at 9:01 PM, Pieti Lowell wrote:> >>> You fellows ,I don't think you know the half of it, I got a > registered letter late Friday , dated Thursday, saying that I have > 10 days from the letter's date to respond to FAA regarding > practically redoing my complete Private License Tests learning over, > from getting a tail dragger to be retested , check ride , Area > operations III,, IV etc, Where does one begin ? so far dozens of > phone calls just to find an Instructor with a conventional gear > plane, and when asked if it would be OK to take my check-ride in a > Pietenpol HA only certified craft with ALL paper work on the plane > complete. and it goes on and on. Still no airplanes yet available > and I don't blame anyone to get involved , what a hassle and with > over 2000 tail dragger hours.> Pieti Lowell>> Wednesday during the Homebuilt Review Showcase (where they shafted > one of our three Pietenpol guys--Jack Phillips by cutting one of the > Piets out of the event) the Rotec powered Junior Ace from Poplar > Grove nearly lost it in similar wind conditions when landing. Three > times he nearly had his wing tips in the turf--scary stuff but he > managed to add power, continue down the runway and get a second > chance.>> I was astonished at the ineptitude of the EAA/FAA/and law > enforcement people who kept Lowell and his plane out on the runway > for well over an hour. First off---Lowell's well being, once that > was established to not be an issue they should have cleared off and > talked with him elsewhere if they needed to. I should know better-- > if the gov't is involved they will take the least practical path to > a conclusion.>> Mike C.[/quote]>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little> help.>>> wayne(at)taildraggersinc.com>>> Mike,>> Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are> available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my> phone...>> Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol> family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with> the original build article and "plans".>> With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said> it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you> won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)...> Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth> the cost savings.>> And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line> from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher> what's actually being said on this list.>> Wayne Bressler Jr.>> Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning!>> Taildraggers, Inc.> taildraggersinc.com>> Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.>> On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" motorbikemikexb9(at)comcast.net> > wrote:>> motorbikemikexb9(at)comcast.net> > >> >> > Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge.> > I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love> > their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open> > cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper> > for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them> > up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build> > one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood> > working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale> > R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but> > feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about> > airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what> > is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This> > will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very> > safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any> > certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m!> > y private pilots license as well.> >> > To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any> > good places to find information that will help me with my build.> >> > Some admediate concerns are:> > what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go:> > Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain> > grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type> > of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full> > scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any> > local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area?> >> > Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the> > forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my> > plane comes together.> >> > Thanks, Mike> >> >> >> >> > Read this topic online here:> >> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 853#256853> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:01:36 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday