Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "mike"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help.Mike,Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my phone...Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with the original build article and "plans".With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)... Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth the cost savings.And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher what's actually being said on this list.Wayne Bressler Jr.Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning!Taildraggers, Inc.taildraggersinc.comSent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" wrote:> >>> Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. > I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love > their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open > cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper > for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them > up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build > one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood > working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale > R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but > feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about > airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what > is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This > will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very > safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any > certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m!> y private pilots license as well.>> To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any > good places to find information that will help me with my build.>> Some admediate concerns are:> what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: > Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain > grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type > of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full > scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any > local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area?>> Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the > forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my > plane comes together.>> Thanks, Mike>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've been afan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic look and feel,as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planning to get startedbuilding a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last weekand seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to buildone. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood working.I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale R/C's over thepast 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but feel I still have alot to learn.I'm mostly concerned about airframe strength, Proper covering techniqueand figuring out what is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified.This will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been verysafe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any certificationprocess to fly them. I'm currently working on my private pilots license aswell. To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good placesto find information that will help me with my build.Some admediate concerns are:what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or steeltube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners or hardwarerecomended or required for this type of build. where is a good placeto find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering / certification?Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukeearea?Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum and hopefullymeet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes together.Thanks, MikeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Wayne Bressler
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help.Welcome to the best place for the best information on your intended build. There are DVDs available from fellow builders. Mike Cuy has a really good one along with other Piet builders. The books by Tony Bengellis are a must for the builders library. The plans are available through the pietenpol family so they are easily gotten and would recommend you join the BPA for thenews letter. You just missed the Brodhead gathering where you can see the piets up close talk to the builders and get some really great advice while stealing ideas. Who knows with the number of piets in Illinois you can visit some in progress of building and get a chance to ride in some already built.The folks you'll meet on this board and in person in Brodhead are some of the best folks you'll ever meet most are friendly and ready to lend advice.Building a Piet is rewarding on to itself and the journey is spectacular plus you'll end up with a great airplane and a bunch of new friends. I think you made 2 wise choices on in building the Piet and the second was to come here.Enjoy the adventureJohnmessage dated 8/9/2009 9:49:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, motorbikemikexb9(at)comcast.net writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "motorbikemikexb9" Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planningto get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes butfeel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full scalebuild. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m!y private pilots license as well. To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good places to find information that will help me with my build.Some admediate concerns are:what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where isa good place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area?Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes together.Thanks, MikeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi Mike,I'm your confusing email address doppelganger, bike.mike. One of my bikes isa motorbike (BMW R100R) but the rest are human powered.Most of the guys on the list are fair-minded, reasonable people. However,there are a few of the "type A" sort who believe that a genuine "Pietenpol"Aircamper is made of wood, is powered by a Model A engine, and is built froma set of plans approved by Bernard H. Pietenpol (never say "Bernie"), signedby draftsman Orrin Hoopman, and sold by the Pietenpol family.Most of this crowd is extremely helpful, freely giving of their combinedcenturies of experience building and flying this magnificent flying machine.In the heartland of America you have access to many brilliant examples ofPiets built by every sort of craftsman; visit them and you will acquire alist of lifelong friends. As to your specific questions, there will be many answers from the variouscamps regarding the merits of wood over steel, Model A over Corvair overContinental over Rotec, and even the merits of Home Depot over Wicks overAircraft Spruce and Specialty. Be prepared to do some of your own research.Welcome to the coolest list-serve in the world.Mike Hardaway -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "mike"
Mike,Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my phone...Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with the original build article and "plans".With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)... Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth the cost savings.And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher what's actually being said on this list.Wayne Bressler Jr.Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning!Taildraggers, Inc.taildraggersinc.comSent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" wrote:> >>> Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. > I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love > their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open > cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper > for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them > up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build > one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood > working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale > R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but > feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about > airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what > is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This > will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very > safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any > certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m!> y private pilots license as well.>> To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any > good places to find information that will help me with my build.>> Some admediate concerns are:> what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: > Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain > grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type > of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full > scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any > local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area?>> Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the > forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my > plane comes together.>> Thanks, Mike>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: amsafetyc(at)aol.com
Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuelquantity gageWill this double as a fuel vent without any probs?Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help.

Original Posted By: Wayne Bressler
Let's get this straight she's just driving, you're just flying. I'm the one doinga great stunt. JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mike,You've already gotten some good advice (and a good dose of lines from TheGreat Waldo Pepper). Buy the Bingelis books. Apart from being a wealth ofgood information about all kinds of things you'll need to know to build anairplane (just how much do you know about venting fuel systems, or bleedingbrakes? - Those are just a couple of topics he covers well), the books arewell written and are interesting reading.As for the questions that invariably come up whenever a new builder getsstarted, I'll try to list them and will give my opinion on them. You knowwhat they say about opinions - they are like rectums. Everybody's got oneand most are full of s--t.What Plans to use? Buy the plans from Andrew Pietenpol (Bernard'sgrandson). http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/ I would also recommendbuying the reprint of the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual that EAA publishes.It has the original plans and a commentary from Pietenpol on building thatis enjoyable reading.Wood or steel? - Your choice. Anecdotal evidence indicates the steel tubefuselages are lighter. However, they require more planning because you haveto weld on fittings for any attachments, rather than just screwing somethingonto the wood.What engine? - just about everything has been used, from Model A Fords toSzekely 3-cylinder radials to Continentals to Corvairs. Some work betterthan others. Purists would say that you should use what Pietenpol used, butthat covers the gamut above. My personal choice is to use a smallContinental (I have an A65, but if I did it over I would probably use anO-200). I live in North Carolina (soon to be moving to the Blue RidgeMountains of Virginia) and an engine failure in this part of the country isnot to be taken lightly. Therefore I want the most reliable engine I canfind and it is hard to beat the small Continentals for reliability. ManyPiet builders are using Corvairs now, because Pietenpol did it and they arecheap and powerful. They also (in my opinion) are not terribly reliable.Shad Bell knows more about Corvairs than anyone, based on personal FLYINGexperience and he has had a number of serious failures with his. He alsolives in the midwest and I think that is key - every year when I fly mine toBrodhead I breathe a sigh of relief when I cross over the Ohio River andenter the midwest, where the biggest problem in a forced landing is choosingwhich of a dozen acceptable landing fields is the BEST field. Prior tocrossing the Ohio, I think I counted 4 fields that I passed over in Virginiaand West Virginia where I could land the Pietenpol and be able to take offagain without damaging it. Since you live in the midwest, your enginechoice is a little more open.What wood? You didn't ask this, but you will. Again, since this is myemail, you get my opinion. I like aircraft grade Sitka Spruce. It has thebest strength to weight ratio of any wood, is wonderful to work (doesn'tsplinter like fir does) and while expensive, it also offers great piece ofmind since you don't have to worry if you found all the defects in wood youselected at a lumber yard. Even though it is expensive, the cost of all thewood in the airplane is a small fraction of the total cost of the project.I basically spared no expense in building mine and the total cost of theentire airplane was right at $15,000 which was spread over 8 years ofbuilding (I like to tell people I spent the same amount building thatairplane that a 2-pack a day smoker would have spent on cigarettes in thesame timeframe). Of that amount, all the wood totaled about $1,000.What Glue? Most people use T-88 (I did too in the cockpit area where itshows). I like Resorcinol. Epoxies are fine, but even now the only gluethe FAA allows for use when repairing or rebuilding a certificated aircraftis Resorcinol. I like working with it, even though it is more troublesomethan epoxy (joints have to fit perfectly because resorcinol will not fill agap like epoxy will).Hardware? Again, I like certified aircraft parts. It costs a bit more, butyou know what you've got instead of hoping that the cheap Chinese steel inthose Home Depot bolts can stand the load holding your lift struts to yourwing. It also helps convince the DAR or FAA inspector that you know whatyou're doing when they are inspecting your craft to give you theAirworthiness Certificate. Aircraft Spruce & Specialty sells a kit with anassortment of AN hardware that will cover most of your needs. BTW, ordertheir catalog (www.aircraftspruce.com) . They are a good source (if a bitpricey) for nearly everything you will need, and their catalog has a lot ofgood information in it. The catalog is free.DVD's? Someone already mentioned Mike Cuy's excellent DVD. It is availablethrough Glenn Thomas' website www.flyingwood.com , under "Inspiration".Also listed there is Chuck Gantzer's DVD on flying NX770CG, which is alsoworth having. There are other DVD's being offered, but these are the onlytwo I know of from people who have actually finished and flown their AirCampers.Local Pietenpol Builders in the Milwaukee/Chicago area? I know of several,but will let them come forth on their own. You are certainly close enoughto Brodhead that you should plan to attend there every year (it is alwaysthe weekend before that other Wisconsin fly-in)Join the EAA - While many of us feel the EAA lately has turned their back onhomebuilders, especially those of us who are not building from kits, theystill are a worthwhile organization to support. They offer a lot of booksand sources of information that you will need. Join a good local chapter ifyou can.Learn to fly before you finish your Pietenpol - I love flying my Pietenpol,but it is not an ideal trainer for a number of reasons. I recommend you getyour license in something more conventional, then get your tailwheeltraining in a Piper J-3 Cub before trying to fly your Pietenpol. If you canfind a place where you can do all your training in a Cub, even better. Iknow Steve Krog at Hartford Wisconsin still trains in Cubs. I'm not surehow far that is from Palatine IL. There may be Cubs for rent at PoplarGrove (C77). That's pretty neat airport, with a lot of homebuilding andVintage Aircraft activity.OK - I've aired my opinions. Let the flames begin!Jack PhillipsNX899JP"Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC - Smith Mountain Lake, VA-----Original Message-----