Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Tim Willis
Subject: Pietenpol-List: original Pietenpol wing air foilIf rigged properly the Pietenpol stall either power off or power on is a non-event and easily recoverable from. Landing a Pietenpolfull stall is a non event either (unless you stall out 4 or 5 feet above the runway of course but in that case it wouldn't much matterwhat you were flying-it would get ugly)I don't have any experience flying behind a Riblett airfoil landing one but Lowell Frank does and I'm sure his extensive testing coulddescribe the stall characteristics of that wing accordingly.I say if you want to lift HEAVIER LOADS......make the wing LONGER. Simple as that-no matter if you're using a Pietenpol or Riblettairfoil.Nothing beats more wing area for lifting. I would like to calculate the difference in wing area between a stock Pietenpol wingand a Cub and Champ. Cub and Champ wings are SIX feet longer than Pietenpol wings and they easily lift two fat people like meon warm days with a 65 hp motor with no problems.If I had it to do over again I would add probably 4 feet of wing more.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:46:09 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Original Posted By: "Jerry Dotson"
I'm new to the list...at least new in writing. Been lurking for 6mo or so. Figured most my questions will be answered sooner or later.I would have to agree with Mike. The cubs especially the J3 lift the same or more weight and do it quite well even on floats. all with the same hp. But=2C with much more wing. The Tri-pacer which has the glide of a brick on a good day and marginal performance on floats turns into a great performer with the same airfoil and more wing in the bushmaster conversion. Washout would improve the stall=2C although in theory a hershy bar wing doesn't need it as it naturally stalls at the root first. Even the Tri-pacer has an inch of washout. My question is would the spars handle another 1 foot of wing outboard of the struts. I don't think anyone has any center of pressure data on the piet airfoil. This would be necessary to figure out the max load on each spar. short of building a wing a testing to destruction. Even then without Cp info how do you figure how to load it?Most of my hours are on floats and have been toying with a piet on floats. In the stock configuration the piet would be a marginal performer at best and I've had my fill of those!Any thoughts?Doug Dever_________________________________________________________________Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYC ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: original Pietenpol wing air foil

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Yes sir. I ordered 2-16 foot spars for my one piece wing. I will get about 31 feetspan. Reading everyone talk about poor climb. Thinking to make the aileronslonger too. What y'all think? I will also use my O-235 Lycoming and suffer theweight penalty. My runway is 1300 feet so I need my Piet to get with it ontakeoff. My hangar(40X50) is supposed to be built next month...sure hope so. Ineed the room to build. The picture is from Google Earth. That area photographwas taken 4 years ago during a severe drought. The grass died in some largespots.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009using Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a45_ ... ______Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:20:32 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Be careful buying one on ebay. I bought one for $150 a few years ago and Iwouldn't let my ex-wife fly behind it. Any used prop-hub should bemagnafluxed. They were prone to cracking.Jack PhillipsNX899JP-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
I know it's been done a couple times. I don't think you could even begin to call that one a piet though. For Mike Cuy's info the J3 has 178sqft of wing as opposed to the piet at 140. Makes a big difference. That much wing would probably turn the piet into a giant kite. Have enough time in giant kites (aka ultralights) to know that isn't fun in anything beyond a very light breezeDoug Dever_________________________________________________________________Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYC ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: original Pietenpol wing air foil

Original Posted By: airlion
When built light, and generally to the plans the Piet really is a good climberand a good all around flying airplane. I'm not out to get everyone charged upon this subject... but, I built close to the plans, with the general exceptionof the A-65, and I don't think I could be any happier with the plane. I guessI'm just a big fan. Keep that "Pietenpol Purist Bug Spray" away from me Mike Cuy!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:25:04 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: Darrel Jones

Original Posted By:> airlion(at)bellsouth.net
Someone has installed vortex gen. I forget who. It did make a gentler stall. He ahd a unique wing in that someone had used alum for the leading edge and it distorted badly when the fabric was shrunk. Dunno or don't remember if it had any other effect.Doug DeverBeen here for a while..listeningJust started talking--lol> Date: Thu=2C 20 Aug 2009 16:25:04 -0700

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Gardiner the only experience I have with vortex generators is a friend has a Savage( J3 look alike but AIN'T). He said that if you are not careful on landingyou will make lots of "firm" landings. He put a set of those little clear plasticvortex generators on it and cured the firm landings.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009using Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Robert Ray
Ameet:If you're on the Yahoo "airfoils" list, go back and searchthe files archives for a couple of very good articlesthat Mike Shuck published regarding his analyses ofthe Pietenpol airfoil vs. several others, such as theUSA35 and the NACA 441x series. There are also comparisonsof the Riblett airfoils to the Pietenpol. All in all,I think you'll find, after much study, that Mr. Pietenpolwas a very smart cookie and that it would be hard tobeat him at his own game when trying to find a betterairfoil for HIS Air Camper design. Very hard to beat him.My own experience? All I can compare it to is Citabria,J-3 and Super Cub time. Not tons of time, but enoughto know the differences in feel and performance. Myopinion is that the Pietenpol is a very sweet flyingairplane both in climb, cruise, descent, and stall, with Mr. Pietenpol's own custom airfoil. While the Cubis docile with all that wing and not much weight orpower, the Piet lands much more positively with minimalfloat and yet doesn't really bite you hard if you let theairspeed crumble on short final... it just reminds youof the laws of aerodynamics. "Widow-maker"-? Hardly.In cruise, there is truly no benefit to making a Pietgo faster. That point has been driven home to me evenmore now that I have a 75 HP engine on mine. The airplaneis just not happy flying faster than 70-75 MPH, especiallyin anything other than perfectly smooth air. It's notabout going faster in this airplane, and if 70-75 is notthe target airspeed for you, then neither is the Air Camper.Stall? I left power at cruise on my airplane at 4000'while seating the rings and started pulling back on thestick till it stalled. Which it didn't, ever. It sortof settled and mushed but never fell off on a wing,didn't even bob the nose- and the ASI was showing in thelow 30's but I didn't believe that because of the propblast from the engine at cruise power and the relativelyhigh angle of attack. With power off and a controlledapproach to stall, it will gently nose-bob all afternoonlong as long as I stay on the rudder pedals. No widowswere made in the testing of my Piet, and I am NOT afraidof this airplane in any controlled flight regime. Thereis simply nothing harsh about the Air Camper no matterhow many years pass, how many generations of builders andpilots try to analyze and improve it, and how many newairfoil analysts come along. Yes, you can handle itpoorly and make it do some bad things and yes, you cansearch for and find the limits of the control surfacetravels, but not without some effort. This is a lightsport aircraft and if it's operated that way, it's ashonest as the dollar used to be before we broke the lawand stopped requiring the government to back every dollarwith some gold or silver in Fort Knox.The best thing that can be said about the Pietenpol airfoilis that it is EXTREMELY time-tested and dependable. Theworst that can be said about it, in my opinion, is that itis an undercambered airfoil that makes it just a tad fussierto construct in fabric, if you can even call that a drawback.I thought we were only supposed to have theoreticaldiscussions on this list when it was too cold and wet outsideto glue wood or work in the shop or to go fly our open-cockpitairplanes, but things have gotten off to an early startthis season. It's still over 100F every day here in S. Texasand I'll be flying for months yet...Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:17:24 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: original Pietenpol wing air foil