Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: John Egan
I believe I have my posting woes fixed, so I am trying this again.I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood, (oak/ash) would be suitablefor the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or aluminum, but sincethe fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood gussets on the fuselage end,why not wood inside the cabanes?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 14:16:04 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
John, I built my engine mount to BHP's plans for the A65 Continental. Hereis the W&B spreadsheet that I used. You can modify it to fit your owndimentions and weights.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____

Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Data plate on th cowling huh? have you got it inspected that way? I'm pretty surethey normally want it on the outside at the tail. I have been wondering aboutthe statements that it is OK to use big numbers under the wings that are notyour N-numbers. if I read that right I am surprised the feds would approve thatone.but who knows. maybe I should put pipeline patrol under mine. I very seldomfly 500 feet AGL-usually not over 150.course outside of upsetting a fewantelope- I try to stay away from towns and people too.I used to fly with my oldinstructor when he had a pipeline patrol job and did a lot of the flying onlong runs from the Texas panhandle to Denver,into Kansas and home.he'd occasionallyask me to fly a little higher when I started needing to pull up over powerlines.but then I like it down in the dirt.that old Skyhawk felt like it wasreally moving.RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By:> speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
I haven't seen any replies to your question on wooden strut inserts so I'll give it a shot. I would be afraid of useing wood inserts because wood has a fairly low strength on short sections with the grain. There is only about 5/16" of material below the bolt hole on the bottom fitting (and above on the top fitting). With the loads and shock loads applied by the strut the bolt would pull out the small chunk of wood below the bolt along the grain lines. They would be strong in compression but very weak in tension. I wouldn't make them out of wood. You would be much better off with metal inserts. Ed G.> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum cabane insert material

Original Posted By: "Jerry Dotson"
How wide should I make the gap at the end of the aileron between the wingand the aileron? You know the area between the two solid end plates? Does3/8" sound correct?ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aileron to Wing Gap

Original Posted By: "Chris"
I have been studying on the same thing as I will be building the ailerons thiscoming week. I will make mine the width of the folded piano hinge. Is that whatyou were referring to?--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009Ribs and tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc0 ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jerry, What I am referring to is the end of the aileron where it abuts the wingpanel parallel to the cord line. For the left wing it would be the right endof the aileron.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Ben Charvet

Original Posted By: "gcardinal"
One question, are you going to bolt to the fuselage fittings through the cabane itself?If so then why do you want anything in there? The only way an insert is going to addstrength in tension is if that insert has at least one more bolt through it and the strutan inch or so above the bottom hole. This is a good idea with aluminum. In this caseit's best to use a bar of aluminum.It's not like using wood struts. What you do there is add metal plates to the outsidewith another bolt 1 1/2" above the one that bolts the strut to the fuselage. Thisicreases the area of the "plug" sides thus increasing the tearout resistance dramaticaly.In both cases the idea is to strengthen the strut.Clif There is only about 5/16" of material below the bolt hole on the bottom fitting (and above on the top fitting). With the loads and shock loads applied by the strut the bolt would pull out the small chunk of wood below the bolt along the grain lines. You would be much better off with metal inserts. Ed G. > > I believe I have my posting woes fixed, so I am trying this again. > > I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood, (oak/ash) would be suitable for the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or aluminum, but since the fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood gussets on the fuselage end, why not wood inside the cabanes?________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
When I responded I wasn't thinking that you had planned to drill through the aluminum strut=2C I was thinking you wanted to leave the wood sticking out like they do with lift struts and just drill through the wood. Aluminum struts are fairly thick on the sides where the flat is on the inside and aluminum is a very good bearing material. So=2C if you made the fuselage fittings slightly longer you may not need any filler block inside or If you were worried about the bolt pressure collapseing the tubing you could just put a spacer inside. Varnished or epoxy coated harwood should work for that I would think. Cabane loads are really not all that high and being under the wing they shouldn't get much moisture inside. Ed G.Date: Mon=2C 3 May 2010 06:36:28 -0700

Original Posted By: "Ed G."
This topic is confusing me.First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood inside an aluminumstrut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have already been mentioned.But now I'm confused by this latest posting.Ed wrote: "I was thinking you wanted to leave the wood sticking out like they dowith lift struts and just drill through the wood."This statement creates two new questions in my mind:1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum lift struts? I don'tthink I've ever seen anything like that. anyone got a photo to illustrate whatthat would look like?2. Since "they" only drill through the wood, and not the metal, does that meanthat the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the aluminum? What is it - a frictionfit? or glued?I must be misunderstanding something here (I hope).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By:> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca
well the whole thing was confusing to me too...but THEY usually bolt a square aluminum or steel insert into an aluminum lift strut which sticks out of the strut and is drilled for a bolt. Thats what I origionally thought he wanted to do with wood instead of metal. No wonder no one else tried to answer LOL..> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material

Original Posted By: Ed G.
Well, let's see. First off, yes I do have a little fountain in a little pool.Next. about those winters. It does go below freezing, occasionaly. Bill'sright, no snow until AFTER the games were over. What a pain in thetu-tu that all was. No flying for two months! Lot's of sun, no wind, no fly.After the games? Rainy, cloudy and windy!Bitch, bitch, bitch...and I haven't even made the porridge yet! :-)So, I did up a little pic with the strut and insert. Really, the only reasonto have such would be to add strength by having a second bolt higherup the strut. In which case the inserts job is to connect the bolts.Another thought. Since the strut is 3/4" wide and the space between thestraps is at least 1 1/4" then why use a bolt? One could use a clevis pin.After all you're not pulling anything tightly together at this connection. ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
et>- - So, Michael, since your entire cabane fits within the steel fingers of the attachment fittings-- those off the wing and those off the longerons, you can nestle the cabane down within those fingers and may not need any bar at all.- However, since Al. is not as hard as steel, I would stick an aluminum bar in there, and make it long enough to run two bolts through it-- one above the other.- This will keep the Al. bar from "working" on the Al. inside the tube over a long time, with vibration and various loads.- - I have done something like that in my Al. cabanes, but have extended the bar out, for my cabane streamline tubes are the next size larger, so that a 1" X 1" Al bar is a snug fit inside.- Tim in central TX-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Jim Markle

Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"

Original Posted By: "Chris"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> net>> > I believe I have my posting woes fixed=2C so I am trying this again.> > I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood=2C (oak/ash) would be suitable for the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or aluminum=2C but since the fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood gussets on the fuselage end=2C why not wood inside the cabanes?> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 389#296389> > > > > > > ============================================> > > _________________________________________________________________The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/the ... __________

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
One question=2C are you going to bolt to the fuselage fittings through the cabane itself?If so then why do you want anything in there? The only way an insert is going to addstrength in tension is if that insert has at least one more bolt through it and the strutan inch or so above the bottom hole. This is a good idea with aluminum. In this caseit's best to use a bar of aluminum.It's not like using wood struts. What you do there is add metal plates to the outsidewith another bolt 1 1/2" above the one that bolts the strut to the fuselage. Thisicreases the area of the "plug" sides thus increasing the tearout resistance dramaticaly.In both cases the idea is to strengthen the strut.ClifThere is only about 5/16" of material below the bolt hole on the bottom fitting (and above on the top fitting). With the loads and shock loads applied by the strut the bolt would pull out the small chunk of wood below the bolt along the grain lines. You would be much better off with metal inserts. Ed G.> > I believe I have my posting woes fixed=2C so I am trying this again.> > I am using aluminum cabanes and am curious if a hard wood=2C (oak/ash) would be suitable for the inserts. I know most use some type of steel or aluminum=2C but since the fittings attach to soft spruce and ply wood gussets on the fuselage end=2C why not wood inside the cabanes?" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... cs.comllow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/the ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum cabane insert material

Original Posted By: airlion
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> ca>> > This topic is confusing me.> First of all I don't understand why one would want to use hardwood inside an aluminum strut. Most of the logical reasons not to do this have already been mentioned.> But now I'm confused by this latest posting.> Ed wrote: "I was thinking you wanted to leave the wood sticking out like they do with lift struts and just drill through the wood."> This statement creates two new questions in my mind:> 1. Who are "they" that leave wood sticking out of aluminum lift struts? I don't think I've ever seen anything like that. anyone got a photo to illustrate what that would look like?> 2. Since "they" only drill through the wood=2C and not the metal=2C does that mean that the wood is NOT mechanically fastened to the aluminum? What is it - a friction fit? or glued?> I must be misunderstanding something here (I hope).> > > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 622#296622> > > > > > > ============================================> > > _________________________________________________________________The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox.http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/the ... ______Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 17:56:59 -0700 (PDT)