Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building the scoop on the glue
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:14 am
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building the scoop on the glueTorsion and shear forces were applied along with blunt trauma hammering,not as test but necessity in parts that needed to be done over. Each separation was no easy task and required significant amounts of force to fracture which left the adhesive and joint in tact and fracturing the wood with oneside having wood and adhesive and the other missing chunks of wood grain all across the joint surface. Tests if that's what you care to call them onstructural material end to side, end to end and plywood to long grain surfaces all had the same result a real female dog to break and all with the same residual result: chunks, splinters, delaminations and epoxy intact in clamped and unclamped applications and not bad on fingers, body parts, metal and clothing. It does reinforce the idea of using plastic under the glue joint as to no bond the project parts to the varnished bench top surface, yes it even hold strong to varnished/ polyurethaned bench top surfaces. To disassemble the adhesive bond at the joint requires a fine bladed saw and careful strokes if you're interested on salvaging any part of the joint for a reapplication.I cant say that the flour and water, Elmers glue all, krazy glue or otherpopular brands were as good as the West System epoxy which is designed specifically for marine applications recommended for boats made of wood and fiberglass among other materials.The good news with lapages white glue, flour and water and wheat wall paper glues is they are edible to a certain degree, where as West Systems epoxyis not recommended or conducive to good gastronomical health and function a real binder insoluble in water, solvents and gastric acids.JohnIn a message dated 12/14/2010 2:42:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:Have you made test joints and then broken them invarious ways especialy in shear? I did. You should too if you haven't already. It IS recomended procedure. AND rather educational too!Also what does both West and System Three (T-88)have to say about bonding wood?_http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf_ (http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf) Third line, column two, under "product application".Now, West might be different as it is reportedly thinnerbut most likely not much.Clif=9CWhat gets us into trouble is not what we don=99t know, it=99s what we know for sure that just ain=99t so.=9D - Mark TwainI used West System epoxy, close fitting joints and clamps along with brads and staples shot from a pneumatic gun. I wanted to be well assured thatthe pins would help my clamps and joints stay tight and strong. Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion sets in from opinions you receive, well than you can always consult Tony and see what he's written about the subject then choose the answer you want or like best. In the final analysis we all select the answer we like the best.Its just human nature!John====================================(http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ====================================(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ========================================================================________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:03:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Soon will be building the scoop on the glueTorsion and shear forces were applied along with blunt trauma hammering,not as test but necessity in parts that needed to be done over. Each separation was no easy task and required significant amounts of force to fracture which left the adhesive and joint in tact and fracturing the wood with oneside having wood and adhesive and the other missing chunks of wood grain all across the joint surface. Tests if that's what you care to call them onstructural material end to side, end to end and plywood to long grain surfaces all had the same result a real female dog to break and all with the same residual result: chunks, splinters, delaminations and epoxy intact in clamped and unclamped applications and not bad on fingers, body parts, metal and clothing. It does reinforce the idea of using plastic under the glue joint as to no bond the project parts to the varnished bench top surface, yes it even hold strong to varnished/ polyurethaned bench top surfaces. To disassemble the adhesive bond at the joint requires a fine bladed saw and careful strokes if you're interested on salvaging any part of the joint for a reapplication.I cant say that the flour and water, Elmers glue all, krazy glue or otherpopular brands were as good as the West System epoxy which is designed specifically for marine applications recommended for boats made of wood and fiberglass among other materials.The good news with lapages white glue, flour and water and wheat wall paper glues is they are edible to a certain degree, where as West Systems epoxyis not recommended or conducive to good gastronomical health and function a real binder insoluble in water, solvents and gastric acids.JohnIn a message dated 12/14/2010 2:42:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca writes:Have you made test joints and then broken them invarious ways especialy in shear? I did. You should too if you haven't already. It IS recomended procedure. AND rather educational too!Also what does both West and System Three (T-88)have to say about bonding wood?_http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf_ (http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/tds/T-88_TDS.pdf) Third line, column two, under "product application".Now, West might be different as it is reportedly thinnerbut most likely not much.Clif=9CWhat gets us into trouble is not what we don=99t know, it=99s what we know for sure that just ain=99t so.=9D - Mark TwainI used West System epoxy, close fitting joints and clamps along with brads and staples shot from a pneumatic gun. I wanted to be well assured thatthe pins would help my clamps and joints stay tight and strong. Its not a bad idea to ask for advice and when confusion sets in from opinions you receive, well than you can always consult Tony and see what he's written about the subject then choose the answer you want or like best. In the final analysis we all select the answer we like the best.Its just human nature!John====================================(http://www.aeroelectric.com/) (http://www.buildersbooks.com/) (http://www.homebuilthelp.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ====================================(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List) ========================================================================________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:03:38 -0800 (PST)