Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "PShipman"
I just bought a set of plans from Don and am planning on starting on the projectin a few months (I need to finish a boat I started on first). I have a coupleof questions that I would like to throw out there and gain some practical knowledge.At this point I am heavily leaning toward the one piece wing, the steeltube fuselage, and a Continental engine (C85 or 0200)1- Is there a benefit to start with one major component (wing, fuselage, tail feathers)before another? From a space standpoint I would build the tail and wingbefore the fuselage as they take up less room in the shop, but my buildingpartner says to build the fuselage first so you can build everything to fit toit.2- I am leaning toward the one piece wing because I am assuming it to be lighteror stronger and simpler to build. Are these assumptions correct?3- I wanted to build the steel tube fuselage because it is another medium to workwith in the build and I like working with metal, but I notice most of the sitesand posts are from guys building a wood fuselage. I also can't help butthink that it would be both lighter and stronger. I would love to hear opinionsfrom both sides.Thanks for any information. I look forward to starting on the build, asking morequestions and maybe someday being able to answer some...MikeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: First Question

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Welcome, Mike!There is nothing wrong with your approach to build tail, wings, fuse, inthat order. Nor is there anything wrong with wings, tail, fuse, or fuse,tail, wings, or fuse, wings, tail, or....you get the picture...Many builders start with the tail, just to get into the swing of things...orstart with ribs. Since the wing is supported above the fuselage, all youneed to do is follow the dimensions and it all hooks up just fine. I built the 3-piece wing because of building space reasons, but theone-piece builders say that the 1-piece wing is easier and lighter (makessense).Wood is easy for me, but if you are comfortable with steel...go for it! Idon't there's any reason not to, except maybe for material costs. I boughtlocally available poplar at a fraction of the price of spruce, saving closeto $1,000. Can't say what 4130 tubing would have cost.In any case, you're at the right place for all questions. Be sure to let usknow where you are located, and make sure to check out all the cool stuff atwww.westcoastpiet.com. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Hi,Dave Schlieder and I have decided that we need to do something new and interestingso we have started down the Pietenpol Path . We have purchased the easystuff first (tail feathers). With this and the future in mind I'd like to aska few questions (note ... could find the answers via seach):1) We went with T-88 glue ... are there any "gotchas" that we should know?2) I can nowhere find a discussion on the pros and cons on the different stylesof landing gear ... can someone point me to one and/or "stir the pot" [TwistedEvil]3) I am guessing that the Ford installation puts the radiator above/behind theengine for W&B purposes ... has anyone ever built a radiator in front of the enginebetween the engine & the prop?ThanksPerry--------Perry ShipmanLakeside, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Dave,The only gear worth considering is the wood, Jenny style gear with wirewheels! (ducking)Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Gary,! The only folks worth knowing have strong opinions, IMO! I was wondering, though, if the split gear might be better on rough/unimprovedstrips???Perry (Dave is my partner in crime in this endeavor)--------Perry ShipmanLakeside, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Perry (not Dave),I think I have heard that, but, just how rough a field are you talkingabout? BTW...Aren't you jealous of all those mid-west guys and their grassystrips? Then, again, you have the perfect weather where you are.Gary -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Michael Groah

Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
Gary,After 30 years in Alaska, it is hard to be jealous of anyone . Yes, the sunshine is nice (though HOT at times) but it is great to be around myaging parents. Lots of private/hidden strips around the SW, though.As to rough ... I probably won't be landing on any more boulder strewn beachesin this lifetime ... just move interested in major differences between the twogear types.ALSO ... the split gear with tall balloon tiers is a little more like the 1930'sRyan look, which fits San Diego well, eh?Perry--------Perry ShipmanLakeside, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "PShipman"
I'm going to look for some aluminum blocks tomorrow and radius them with my routerbits. I hear high speed steel cuts it like butter.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Question

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Wow ... that would be fun ... I presume you mean Frazier Lake, CA and not CA asin Canada --------Perry ShipmanLakeside, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Michael,When you talk about the support cables for the center section, I assume you'rereferring to the diagonal bracing cables that run between the front and rear cabanes on the right side. (see attached image)The reason why most builders replace them with diagonal tubing running from thetop of the front cabane struts down to the top engine mounts is because thosecables make it very difficult to get into the front seat (as if it isn't difficultenough). BHP recommended using the diagonal tube braces, and included themodified engine mount brackets in the supplementary plans.The way things are designed, the aileron control cables will be pretty well verticalwhen the cabane struts are vertical. Shifting the wing back 4 inches (whichis about as far as most builders go) results in a change of approximately5 degrees. If the deflection seems to be too much, it would be pretty simple toadd a wedge to the back side of the spar to account for the misalignment.Dave,Are you saying that you intend to install cables where others have installed thediagonal tubes AND also installing cables running from the tops of the rearcabanes back towards the rear cockpit? I don't see the benefit. Just sounds likemore cables to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you said.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/cs_c ... ______Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:27:33 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions from a new guy...

Original Posted By: "PShipman"
The only thing I have to say about the type of wheels is that it is a matter of taste. I, personally, don't like the looks of the wire, motorcycle type wheels but that is strictly a personal opinion. I'm sure you'll hear a lot of pros to the question. Can't give any opinion on the engine and the glue question was covered a couple of months back. Most seem to think the T88 is the (only)way to go.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
See what I mean?----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
I definately agree about the mock fuselage bit. Wish I had known about it before I started -- I would probably have a nicer fuselage. ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Question

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: First Question

Original Posted By: Jim Markle

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Just kidding about the Jenny style gear. It was proven last year at Brodheadthat a Piet can be landed perfectly well with a broken split axle gear...Gary -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Yes, Frazier Lake, CA. You are officially 'on the list!' We are working hardto build a West Coast Pietenpol Air Force to someday invade Brodhead...butdon't tell anyone!Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (Just finished Rib #24!)-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Good thought, Mike! Just finished Rib #24, and running the primer line.Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (23 ribs down.) _____

Original Posted By: "Dangerous Dave"
Bill,heres what I am doing.It will give forward and rearward stability and no uglyforward cabane.Dave--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2011 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Question

Original Posted By: "Dangerous Dave"
Perry,I'd do some serious consideration on what your going to do with your piet.T88is great but I'd do some serious research on the 8 million ways to builda piet.Mine is a bush plane and built as such.Big motor,tundra tires, Supercubstyle gear,Ceconite 101 etc.You can build it however you see fit,but if yourlanding in the bush the wood gear and ford motor with bicycle wheels wont evenget you of the ground let alone back on it.Its a 29' design that can use a pileof updating without changing the looks.Just my 3 cents,Dave--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: questions from a new guy...

Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
If I was going to build another Piet I would definitly build everything out ofsteel except the wing and it would be one piece and 4' longer with a NACA64A410airfoil,fuselage 4" wider and I'd stick with the long fuselage.Dave What orderyou build it in is irrelevant--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 15:37:11 -0600

Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Question

Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
That's what I thought, but I don't know enough to argue. ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Dangerous Dave"
Ryan,If a steerable tailwheel,brakes landing gear in the proper position,pulleyswith bearings,4130 steel,synthetic fabric,a real motor,required instuments,seatbelts,nosefuel and elt aren't updates then I guess the plans are perfect andyou should strictly adhere to them,Dave--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
The drag coefficient of 4 3/32" cables is 1/8 that of 2- 7/8 x 2 1/2 struts-math--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Who would make the diagonals out of 7/8" x 2-1/2" tubing? Mine are 1/2" x1-3/8". And yes, they have a lower drag coefficient than 4 3/32" cables(a round shape is one of the worst shapes you can try to push through theair - out of all proportion to its actual frontal area)Check out this video, which demonstrates pretty graphically the drag of around object. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANEJack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
Apparently physics and aeronautical engineering don't apply to Piets guess I shouldhave built unicycle--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Question

Original Posted By: "PShipman"
I've posted this before, here is my homemade brake. Cost about 20 bucks to build.Great Radius bends, will bend everything you need for most homebuilt fittings.I've bent a piece of .250 - 6 inches wide at 90 degrees. It does takea little muscle. The lighter stuff .10 and thinner is pretty easy.DanRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: First Question

Original Posted By: Michael Groah
Losts of good thoughts here ... appreciate all the support and ideas!As to a bush version ... nah ... that is behind me, though that R2800 sure wouldbe fun out front!I think at this point I want to keep Dave's wife happy with slow and "stick aroundhome" type of power ... though the Lion Speed Head on the Ford might makeit a little more fun.--------Perry ShipmanLakeside, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
Gary!!! It's looking great! I'm glad to see you're working on that thing. I've been slowed down a little this past week because of a daughter with a respiratory virus. But I'll be back at it soon. I can't let you get ahead of me.Mike GroahOn Jan 23, 2011, at 12:48 PM, "Gary Boothe" wrote:> Good thought, Mike! Just finished Rib #24, and running the primer line> > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, Running! > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (23 ribs down)>

Original Posted By: santiago morete

Original Posted By: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
Is there not reference somewhere to BHP himself havingto land in a plowed field, ACROSS the rows and thentaking off again later. All with no damage to the wood gear?ClifWood - The original composite. That doesn't weaken insummer heat.> > Perry (not Dave),> > I think I have heard that, but, just how rough a field are you talking> Gary > > Gary,> > ! The only folks worth knowing have strong opinions, IMO! > > I was wondering, though, if the split gear might be better on> rough/unimproved strips???> Perry Shipman> Lakeside, CA________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:09:25 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By:> rmueller23(at)gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports

Original Posted By:> rmueller23(at)gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports