Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
I decided to build a Piet after buying a reprint of the 1932 Flying and GliderManual at Oshkosh last year. Nothing cooler in my mind than being able to buildan airplane using the info provided in Pietenpol's/Westy Farmer's series. I did order a rib plan from Don Pietenpol and started building my ribs, planningon building the rest from only the FGM.Then you start thinking--extended fuselage, Ford A vs. Corvair vs. Lycoming (orother) engine, one-piece vs. three-piece wing; a few more variables and "supplementalplans" needed than just found in the FGM.I ordered the complete set of plans from Don Pietenpol and am waiting for them.Before I did, however, I rabbetted/routed and cut all the wood for the empennagebased on the FGM print. That means the horizontal stabilizer has a leadingedge of 90" and is square to it's trailing edge and is braced with only 1/2X 3/16" spruce strips. The "improved" 1933 plans (which are in the mail) willshow the LE of the horizontal stabilizer at 83" extending to a 90" TE. Bracingis with 1/2 X 3/16" spruce strips and a 3/4 X 1/2" diagonal spruce beam. Similarly, the FGM elevator has a LE of 40 1/2" and tapers to 30"; the 1933 plansshow the elevator LE at 42 1/2" tapering to 30".My question is this-- is it okay to build the FGM empennage as I'd planned andattach it to an extended fuselage and three-piece wing? Or do I need to builda 1933-plans tail section (which means re-ordering, re-routing, re-cutting wood)?Does the 1933 re-design of the tail have BIG advantages over the FGM tailor would it be okay to build the FGM tail? Most pictures I see are of the 1933"improvement". Not many FGM tail pictures out there (but a great exampleof one at Oshkosh last year).I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts. I'd like to stick with the FGM tail(since it just needs glue at this time). I'd have included pictures, but wasn'ttoo certain about copyright issues. If anyone thinks it isn't an infringement,I'll post them.TomRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Hopefully this link workshttp://krbuilder.org/Trim/index.htmlRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Tom,I don't know the difference in flight characteristics but I built a combinationof the two empenages,a squared off 33.I don't see why you couldn't just cutthe mid spar and braces then assemble it with the stuff you already cut.You'djust have an improved 32.Dave--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/piet ... __________

Original Posted By: "GliderMike"
Just checked, I drilled, countersunk the hinge and used a flathead bolt.JackDSM________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?

Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
I would think you would definitely want to add the bracing, for some extra strength.The longer fuselage would not need as much horizontal control surface asthe shorter one, because of the leverage moment being larger, so it might bea little more sensitive on control input from the elevator, than it would bewith the short fuselage. I read someone's comment that the elevator was a tadsensitive on someone's airplane, but I don't know which elevator they used. The"New Improved" elevator sounds like it is larger than what you have set up,so I would think you would be good with what you have. I would definitely addthe diagonal braces, though, as I mentioned at first. My 2 cents worth.Since horizontals are being discussed, are the horizontal portions of the empennagemounted so they can be removed when the airplane is moved from the houseto the airport for final assembly? I don't have plans (again) yet, and at therate things are going, it will be a long time before I have to be concerned aboutthis, but I was wondering.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Yes, Glider, empennage easily removes for transport.Gary-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "bradandlinda tds.net"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: 1932 vs. 1933 empennage?

Original Posted By: "bubbleboy"
Gary,Every time you post one of those beautiful high resolution pictures....I save themto a folder titled "How I want mine to look" !--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be ableto play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me to an audioguy to try and have it made playable here and he was stumped!Scotty--------ScottyTamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi Steve,I've got a good deal of play in my joystick (more than I would like tohave). I would think you should eliminate all you can, because more willcome in from cable stretch and other connections. Since the joystick wasone of the first pieces I welded and I was still learning (and still amtoday), some of the fits were not quite as precise as they should have been.Doesn't affect flight, but it does affect the feel of the airplane. I wantto spend some time this spring optimizing the control system and this is onearea I will concentrate on.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production

Original Posted By: "chase143(at)aol.com"
There is a small amount of lateral play in the control stick on NX18235. About 1/8" - 1/4" measured at the top of the control stick. It is not noticable in flight but less is better.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: chase143(at)aol.com
Steve,Just went out to the hangar to check. I would say the side-to-side play on mine is 1/8" to 3/16". Like Greg C., I can't feel this in flight.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in production> > Hi Mike....with these minor hiccups sorted is there a possibility I may be ableto play it here in Australia now? I even took the one you sent me > to an audio guy to try and have it made playable here and he was > stumped!> Scotty> > --------> Scotty> > Tamworth, Australia> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper> > www.scottyspietenpol.com> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 491#328491> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
A bit like the Corvair prop Rick...haha 8)--------ScottyTamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Steve,I have ZERO play=85and the first liar doesn=92t stand a chance. Seriously, Ihave zero play! But I didn=92t follow the plans (Sorry Dan!). Ignore the factthat I am using push tubes, a la Peter From Down Under. In Pic #9 you will see that I inserted a =91bushing=92 through the torque tube,and brazed both ends. The bushing is able to receive a =BC=94 bolt, with the ODchosen to be just under the drill size for the holes in the control stickears. #17 shows the bushing extending thru the ears. In #44 you can barely see the bold and the castle nut, but this could easilybe a pin, as there is zero force on the bolt.Now, build with confidence=85Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, Running! Tail done, Fuselage on gear (24 ribs down=85) _____

Original Posted By: bubbleboy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Mike Cuy DVD back in productionThere is a different format between euro style and US style DVD formats. Ask acomputer geek friend they should be able to find one. I have it on my computerat home so I could play DVDs given to me by Italian and British Army buddies.Blue Skies,Steve ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Scott Knowlton
Listers:-For those of you who have put a neat looking logo such as: "Corvair", or "110 HP" on the side of your lifter covers; how did you do it?- I have considered just painting it on or cutting the design out of stainless sheet which generates the additional question of; "How is it attached?"- I know the Ford guys sometimes do the logo thing on the front of the case too so this might not be a purely Corvair question.-Tom StinemetzeN328X=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
This is awesome. I know that it was posted recently, but I never did come backto watch the whole thing and lost track of it. Very simple test to prove howimportant it is to eliminate drag. It is making me reconsider the shapes ofa few items I've already fabricated. I hope I don't get stuck in the never ending"Jim Markle" cycle of improving everything to infinity. Just kidding Jim!pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net wrote:> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP "Icarus Plummet"> Raleigh, NC> --------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 06:34:46 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
Just one thing on the drag issue.A round shape perpendicular the the airflow isobviously very restrictive,but a round cylinder at an angle is an ellipse,thesteeper the angle the more oblong the ellipse and the drag on an ellipse is muchcloser to a streamlined shape than a round shape,so if your round shape isat more the 20 degrees the drag factor is negligible,especially in a Piet witha top speed of 100mph and cruising far below that.Dave--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 08:58:07 -0600

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick connection

Original Posted By: shad bell

Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
I have a great deal of respect for anyone on the list who has gone to the time=2C expense and effort of putting together a well equipped workshop=2C however=2C I wanted to let others on the list know how few tools are required to actually make progress on this great old bird. Sometimes the money spent buying a brake=2C bandsaw=2C tig welder=2C plasma cutter etc just slows down the process of building unless your finances for your piet project are limitless. What drew me to this project in the first place was the simplicity of the machine and the limited tools required to build her. The attached photo represents 8 hours of shop time in my little one car garage with a vice=2C hammer=2C drill press=2C jigsaw=2C grinder=2C files=2C sandpaper and scotchbright. I purchased a piece of 18" by 18" 090 4130 from a local metal supplier who sheared it for me into 1" and 3/4" strips (yes...with the grain!). Total cost: 40 bucks. Now off to my Tig welding buddy down the street to have these welded up (that will cost a bottle of Canadian Wiskey). By the way=2C there is still enough left over from that piece of 4130 to build the remainder of the wing fittings. Scott KnowltonBurlington Ontario 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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Engine Decals

Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
Tom - Contact me off-line. My wife cut my "AirCamper" stencils on a machine shehas and we painted the valve covers with high temp paint. Came out great. She'll cut stencils for you, too, I bet. She loves that stuff. She'll even giveyou instructions. She sent a set to Gardiner Mason as well.kevin.purtee(at)us.army.milKevin--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Metal Fittings

Original Posted By: "DOMIT"
Good post and good points, Scott. My redneck machine shop sounds pretty similar.Kevin--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Brace cables, pulleys, wing supports

Original Posted By: shad bell
airlion(at)bellsouth.net wrote:> I am in the process of streamlining my flying wires. I got some plastic cornersfrom home depot and cut them down to 3/8 inch wide with heavy duty scissors.I then put gorilla duct tapearound the front edge and then folded it over tohold onto the plastic. I hope this will give me a streamlign effect. I also gotsome aluminium house siding and folded it over to clamp onto the verticle landinggear. Hopes this works. Gardiner> At the speeds the Piet travels, the air has time to get around the round wires,play a game of gin rummy, and take a nap before it gets to the next object init's path. Seriously, the stranded cable used is NOT the same as a solid round object. Thesurface texture makes a difference, it makes the airflow turbulent, and followsthe shape BETTER, kind of like the dimples on a golf ball.--------Brad "DOMIT" SmithFirst rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 10:52:34 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Gary,So you are using pushrods instead of cables??? If so, what controls are you doingthat with? I was considering a pushrod for the elevator control and stickingwith cables for the rudder and ailerons. Would you do it again if you couldgo back?Thanks,MikePrunedale, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Metal Fittings

Original Posted By: "Gboothe5"
VGhhbmtzLCBCcmlhbiEgSSAnTWFya2xlZCcgdGhhdCBmcm9tIHNvbWVvbmUgYXQgQnJvZGhlYWQgdHdvIHllYXJzIGFnbyENCg0KR2FyeQ0KRG8gbm90IGFyY2hpdmUgDQpTZW50IG9uIHRoZSBTcHJpbnSuIE5vdyBOZXR3b3JrIGZyb20gbXkgQmxhY2tCZXJyea4NCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGJyaWFuLmUuamFyZGluZUBsLTNjb20uY29tDQpTZW5kZXI6IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQpEYXRlOiBXZWQsIDI2IEphbiAyMDExIDEyOjQ4OjM5IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBSRTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IE1ldGFsIEZpdHRpbmdzDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgYSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0IG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gTUlNRSBmb3JtYXQuDQoNCg=________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mike,The push rods are only for elevators, and it was incredibly easy! I reallywanted a laminated control stick and couldn't figure out a way to use thecables...that's the reason for the push rod. I'd do it again in aheartbeat...well, actually, might take a few years, after building ribsfirst, as I promised Axel!Gary-----Original Message-----