Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
et>Shad are you gonna use a round engine? An old Kinner with the little L shapeexhaust stacks would sound good on it.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rollingusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 9#329109le, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
Cool, Shad!=C2- I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister.=C2- Where did you get it?=C2-I spent some time in the early =9880=99s helping restore a B=C3=BCcker Jungmann.=C2- Strange ribstitching those Germans did=C2-Jack PhillipsNX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9DRaleigh, NC=C2-

Original Posted By:=0A=0A=0A owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-piet
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ACool, Shad!=C2- I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister.=C2- Where did you get it?=0A=C2-=0AI spent some time in the early =9880=99s helping restore a B=C3=BCcker Jungmann.=C2- Strange ribstitching those Germans did=0A=C2-=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=C2- =9CIcarus Plummet=9D=0ARaleigh, NC=0A=C2-=0A=0A

Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Actually Jack it is a replica, all wood Jungster 1.=C2- It is a 8/10 scale "kinda look alike" design from the 60's.=C2- They used to advertise the plans in the old 60's-70's aviation magazines.=C2- Google search "Jungster 1" and you can find many nice examples that were built through the years.=C2- Its about the size of an eaa bipe, or smith miniplane, +9, -6g's.=0A=C2-=0AShad--- On Mon, 1/31/11, Jack Phillips wrote:=0A

Original Posted By: "MPB"
Well, if you go to the website Micheal provided youwill see that the company is alive and well and haschanged hands due to the original two guys passingaway. They started out in Sidney, BC where I grew upand now I'm not sure exactly what's happening exceptthat everything seems to be operated out of Ontarionow.Remember Jim Malley, His plane has a 98 ci Fiestain it. It appears in Mikes video and is on the cover ofKitplanes, July 1992. This engine is a little smallerat 91 ci.Clif I think the company is based somewhere out West, I > did not know they were still in business.> > Kip Gardner________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Hmmm....So the CAM100 pricing starts at $8000. The Eggenfelner Honda is $13000. A Corvairconversion with the fifth bearing is typically going to run close to $8000.I thought the main reason builders were looking into auto conversions was to lowercosts.If you NEED 100HP (which most Pietenpol owners actually don't), why not just shoparound for a recently overhauled O-200 or O-235? If you're willing to partwith $8000, you'll be able to find one - guaranteed. Plus, you'll end up withan airplane that looks like an old airplane AND sounds like an old airplane.In my opinion, something just isn't right about the sight of a Pietenpol takingoff with an engine screaming at 6000 RPM. I guess it's okay if you plug yourears.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 09:07:44 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost

Original Posted By: Kenneth Bickers
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost

Original Posted By: "Charles Campbell"
Mike,I am building mine,close to done and 99.9% of what I need,with a LycomingO 235 and all FAA-PMA certified parts and am right around 25,000.I rebuilt the235 and also bought a new Sensenich aluminum prop.Didn't spare any expense andthere about 2000.00 worth of tools and probably 1500 worth of stuff I didn'tuse so in reality 21500 give or take.Full panel,no radios,tundra tires,ELT etc.dave--------Covering PietRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: "MPB"
I haven't finished yet so am really figuring on estimated costs. I think I figured once that, discounting the FWFD, the cost in materials for the airframe would run close to $4500. I think the big thing that would make the difference is whether you use sitka spruce or a locally available wood like poplar or douglas fir. OK you guys who have finished, am I pretty close?----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
On building 6 Big Piets, we each put $200 per month into a joint bankaccount. We had one guy drop out just before we started covering, but wecovered and painted his plane anyway, so the cost will be the same. (we didnot draw a serial number till we started painting, so the 6 were identicalup to this point and we did not know which one would be whose) We have steelfuselages and tail feathers with wood wings. We used the WW corvairconversion with MA3spa carbs and Culver props. We completed and flew the 5Big Piets in 6 years and 6 months from start to finish. We are around $16Kfor each plane. We were able to buy in bulk and Aircraft Spruce gave us deepdiscounts on all our orders, on the down side, A/S East is only 30 milesaway from us, so we had to pay Sales Tax on most our orders. We did put alot of fancy stuff (heavy) in the planes so we probably spent a lot morethan a very basic Piet. Oh yeah, we used the $tewart $ystem for paint ;-)Barry Davis-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
You're right, Mike. It depends. But not much.Mine is a long fuselage, straight axle with wire wheels, A65 Continental,with comm radio, mode C transponder and intercom. Stits Polyfiber fabricwith polyurethane paint. Aircraft grade materials throughout. Total cost -just under $15,000, of which the engine was $7500 (which included buying thecore, new Millenium cylinders, crankcase overhauled by Divco, crankshaft andconnecting rods overhauled by Aircraft Specialties and new Slick magnetos).Counteracting some of the expensive stuff was a lot of scrounging and buyingstuff on ebay. For example, I have a locking Bendix ignition switch(normally about $50 from AS&S) that I got for $1.00 on ebay. Tailwheel was$20 on ebay. Radio I got for $100 from a local avionics shop, transponder(again ebay) for $300. Turn & Bank I bought at OSH for $22 (it works).Cleveland brakes, $100 on ebay. Instruments like airspeed and altimeterwere gifts (people would ask what I wanted for Christmas so I told them toall go in together and get me an altimeter).I made a long list of parts and instruments I was going to need and part ofmy morning routine became looking through ebay's aviation parts category,just looking at the auctions that would end that day. If I saw something Ineeded at a good price, I bid on it. Bought a lot of good stuff that way,and only a few items that were junk.Looking at the responses you've gotten, it looks like $15K is about average.Unfortunately, when you go to sell your Pietenpol, it will bring about $15K.So your time is worth nothing. But it sure is fun.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: shad bell

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
MikeI have to Agree with Jack, it's all free labor, but what a labor of love. Iwould not take anything for the experience of building these airplanes withthe guys. We were all friends before the project, but now 5 of us are"family"Barry DavisNX973BP -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
I am good with the 15k dollar value with 15k invested. I am doing it for the enjoymentof the project as both Jack and Ken suggested. I was just hoping thatI wouldn't have 25k invested with a 15k dollar value...not that there is anythingwrong with those doing that. If you have the money to spend building itthe way you want I say go go for it. I am kind of frugal guy though...I have a shop full of old AN hardware misc parts and even some old instrumentsthat can help keep the build costs down. I also plan on doing everything myself(or my building partner) from welding to paint to engine rebuild. (we'll seehow the engine rebuild goes...) Thanks for all the feedback. The couple questionsI have asked here have brought back a wealth of practical knowledge thatencourages new builders and pilots. I am a 30 year old inactive pilot lookingto get back into it and my building buddy is a 29 year old aspiring pilot.A good community like this one is good for aviations future. Keep it up!Thanks, MikePrunedale, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: shad bell
Shad are you gonna use a round engine? An old Kinner with the little L shapeexhaust stacks would sound good on it.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rollingusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:26:02 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Cool, Shad! I had no idea you were restoring a Jungmeister. Where did youget it?I spent some time in the early =9180=92s helping restore a B=FCcker Jungmann.Strange ribstitching those Germans did=85Jack PhillipsNX899JP =93Icarus Plummet=94Raleigh, NC _____

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost

Original Posted By: shad bell

Original Posted By: airlion
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Build CostPieters,For what it might be worth.One night a long time ago I was having a difficult time falling asleep. I got up and started downstairs when the wife asked where and why. I replied that I intended to run a tape on all Piet invoices. In her sweet way she softly said why not let them alone in the drawer and enjoy building. I did asshe suggested and actually finished and flew my Piet and never worried about cost.Corky and Isabelle________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 15:33:30 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
I added three steps Jerry, one for accessing the top of the center section, one for a front passenger, and one for the rear cockpit. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Jerry Dotson wrote: I am looking for ideas myself. I know I have got to put a step on mine or my duck legs will never make it in! Picture please. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rolling using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 188#329188 ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Cost

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Dave,Thanks for your response!I had said to Dave (the fool ... did I say that ... who is building this with me)that "we'll get an answer from these folks in ten minutes, you watch."So much for that, eh?Yes ... you are quite right. Dave went through last night and, using the GN-1plans, demonstrated how the AS kit is missing one three foot piece of 1 x 1 spruceand ~32 foot of 5/16 X 1/2 capstrip. Not that AS overcharged or anything;just a kit that is missing 1/3 of the needed items.Bottom line is AS made an ASS out of us ??? [Idea]On a more serious note, we did observe last night that it is amazing that BP'splans, at least for the tail feathers, lend themselves to a certain degree of,shall we say, interpretation. That said, the most amazing thing is that so many Piets have been built and flownwhich are, I suspect, not exactly as BP envisioned them in his plans. Andyet they just fly fine! Kind of cool, IMO.--------Perry ShipmanLakeside, CARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost

Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
I did not keep track, and spared no expense on tools, welders, benders etc. Thank God I did this when I had money before the crash. This Piet project WAS my life (besides my family of course) so I was enjoying it to the max. Wasted a lot of money buying stuff I thought was really cool at the time but ultimately cast aside for weight savings or better ideas later. Still spending money on it but now I think long and hard beforehand. One thing is for sure, I had a blast doing it.Dan HelsperIn Puryear TN this week________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
I am not keeping track of expenses besides keeping invoices for homebuilt certification. I have a rough idea of how much I've spent, but really, this is a HOBBY, so I'm not going to get too excited about what it all costs. (I don't keep track of the cost of hunting & fishing expenses either - if I did, I'd feel guilty about the cost of the food brought home). I don't count the cost of tools against the project, there's virtually nothing I've bought in the past 10 years that wasn't used extensively for other things, including the long list of honeydew projects that inevitably crop up.Kip GardnerOn Feb 1, 2011, at 7:57 AM, HelsperSew(at)aol.com wrote:> I did not keep track, and spared no expense on tools, welders, > benders etc. Thank God I did this when I had money before the crash. > This Piet project WAS my life (besides my family of course) so I was > enjoying it to the max. Wasted a lot of money buying stuff I thought > was really cool at the time but ultimately cast aside for weight > savings or better ideas later. Still spending money on it but now I > think long and hard beforehand. One thing is for sure, I had a blast > doing it.>> Dan Helsper> In Puryear TN this week>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Hmmm... not to be the "bad guy" here... looks very nice! But.. is your plywoodweb done with the face grain running along the length of the spar? "Best practice"is 45 degrees, but vertical face grains are stronger than horizontal. (Ok, you can tell me to shut up now...) The web carries loads in shear... essentially parallel to the length of the spar.This means the loads are trying to split the face grains of the ply if itis oriented parallel to the length.I'd test this carefully- from the sizes you listed it is probaby plenty stout,but just to be safe! Did the design call for ply running parallel to the length?If so, someone probably did all the calculations and said it is ok. If not,I'd verify it before flying it.Once again, my apologies for the somewhat-negative comments. I'm not trying tobe the bad guy, just trying to say "be safe!"--------Brad "DOMIT" SmithFirst rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Cost

Original Posted By: "Dangerous Dave"
> *To: *> *ReplyTo: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost>> I have spent about $7000- airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $8000> en= gine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin> corvair)= .>>> Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane.>> rick>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote:>>> I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really dep> ends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.>>> What is the Total Build Cost?>> I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine> for= a scratch built project. -When I bought the plans I heard a lot of> $10,0= 00 talk (from other sources). -I figured that was a bit optimistic,> but f= igured maybe $15,000 was realistic. -Now I am hearing #'s closer to> 2= 5k for the build. -This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it> may be a cause for reconsideration. -I have a lot of tools and access to> even more so that should not be a problem. -This is what I am planning o> n building...>>> -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)> -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)>> I appreciate anyone's input. -You can contact me off the forum too if> you would rather.>>> Thanks,> Mike> Prunedale, CA> mike(at)seatec.us>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 073#329073>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> st" target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> http://forums.matronics.com> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> le, List Admin.> =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>>> --> Rick Holland> Castle = Rock, Colorado>> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell= bad">> *>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> *>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Build Cost

Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>> *To: *>> *ReplyTo: *pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>> *Subject: *Re: Pietenpol-List: Build Cost>>>> I have spent about $7000- airframe/instruments (latex paint) and $8000>> en= gine/prop/fwf (including a Weseman 5th bearing on my crank snappin>> corvair)= .>>>>>> Still a very inexpensive 2 place airplane.>>>> rick>>>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:01 AM, MPB wrote:>>>>>> I know I am leaving myself wide open to a bunch of "well it really dep>> ends..." type of responses, but it is still worth asking.>>>>>> What is the Total Build Cost?>>>> I know this # is all over the place in kit builds so I can only imagine>> for= a scratch built project. -When I bought the plans I heard a lot of>> $10,0= 00 talk (from other sources). -I figured that was a bit optimistic,>> but f= igured maybe $15,000 was realistic. -Now I am hearing #'s closer to>> 2= 5k for the build. -This wouldn't necessarily kill the project, but it>> may be a cause for reconsideration. -I have a lot of tools and access to>> even more so that should not be a problem. -This is what I am planning o>> n building...>>>>>> -steel tube fuselage (looks to be a bit more expensive, but not much)>> -spruce for the wood (ACS sourced)>>>> I appreciate anyone's input. -You can contact me off the forum too if>> you would rather.>>>>>>>> Thanks,>> Mike>> Prunedale, CA>> mike(at)seatec.us>>>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 073#329073>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>> st" target=3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>> http://forums.matronics.com>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>> le, List Admin.>> =3D"_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -->> Rick Holland>> Castle = Rock, Colorado>>>> "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell= bad">>>> *>>>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>> *>>>>> *>============================================> *>>-- Rick HollandCastle Rock, Colorado"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"________________________________________________________________________________