Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt thereSent from my iPhoneist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet ... nics.comle, List Admin.www.matronics.com/contribution_________ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
jimcarriere wrote:> > Ah, thank you- this makes plenty of sense to me. It seems that I misunderstoodyour initial post. (I hope I didn't come across as the pontificating guestin the group.)> > Cheers> JimNot at all. I am looking for input, if there is a safety (most important) reasonfor not doing it that I can't see, I want to know about it. Deviating from the plans in a significant way should involve engineering. I amnot an engineer, so I have not deviated at all to this point. This one changehas had me thinking for some time and asking for input. I really do appreciatethis list and all the photos on westcoastpiet. These two sources have been oftremendous value.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
jimcarriere wrote:> > Ah, thank you- this makes plenty of sense to me. It seems that I misunderstoodyour initial post. (I hope I didn't come across as the pontificating guestin the group.)> > Cheers> JimNot at all. I am looking for input, if there is a safety (most important) reasonfor not doing it that I can't see, I want to know about it. Deviating from the plans in a significant way should involve engineering. I amnot an engineer, so I have not deviated at all to this point. This one changehas had me thinking for some time and asking for input. I really do appreciatethis list and all the photos on westcoastpiet. These two sources have been oftremendous value.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Re: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt thereSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 14:51:41 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Well, it was the only all wood homebuilt thereSent from my iPhone________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 14:51:41 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
RE: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Outstanding, Ben!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Outstanding, Ben!Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: This came in the mail
Original Posted By: "Ben Charvet"
Ben,>From what I have seen in all the photos, you certainly deserve this! Congratulations.Ray KrauseBuilding Sky Scout----- Original Message -----
Ben,>From what I have seen in all the photos, you certainly deserve this! Congratulations.Ray KrauseBuilding Sky Scout----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Original Posted By: "flea"
Congratulations Ben! I can't wait to see it in person.Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Congratulations Ben! I can't wait to see it in person.Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Original Posted By: Frank Metcalfe
I'm good at creating non-issues then over thinking them. The hinge would be difficult anyway, there is a gentle curve in the fuse. Anyway, I will put this side trip on the back burner for a while. I know have otherideas to kick around, Aluminum sheet on the bottom for one. The idea wasto make inspection and access easier. A flat sheet on the bottom does that justas well and is easier. For now I will work on some other things and let thissimmer for a while. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 05:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
I'm good at creating non-issues then over thinking them. The hinge would be difficult anyway, there is a gentle curve in the fuse. Anyway, I will put this side trip on the back burner for a while. I know have otherideas to kick around, Aluminum sheet on the bottom for one. The idea wasto make inspection and access easier. A flat sheet on the bottom does that justas well and is easier. For now I will work on some other things and let thissimmer for a while. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 05:48:22 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Original Posted By: "flea"
Jim; you don't really need to have it hinged. You can attach one side using pianohinge, yes, but then just have the long hinge wire looped on one end whereyou can just pull the wire and lift off the turtledeck. Loop goes forward. You don't want that wire working loose in flight and getting back into the tailsurfaces ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Jim; you don't really need to have it hinged. You can attach one side using pianohinge, yes, but then just have the long hinge wire looped on one end whereyou can just pull the wire and lift off the turtledeck. Loop goes forward. You don't want that wire working loose in flight and getting back into the tailsurfaces ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuse access
Original Posted By: "g. doe"
That is a good point, I really wouldn't anything to interfere with the rudder/elevator.That would ruin a day in a hurry. So I have been given opinions running the entire gauntlet, from Weight, KISS -why mess with it on the con side of the question and Flybaby does it so why not,use an aluminum plate on the bottom, and just pin it on there on the pro side.I assume the suggestion of the piano hinge pin is a suggestion in supportof. So some things to think about then. I don't think the weight is a very big deal, the only added weight is in the weightof the two spruce longerons at 52" each. All other structure would be thereeven if built per plans; stringers and ply formers are there either way. Aluminum plate seems to confirm my idea of having a better inspection area thana 3.5 inch inspection ring. Although this idea goes through the bottom wherepresumably it is easier and cleaner to do. Anyway some thought, cause over thinking is what I do. I really do appreciate all the input, and I am not dismissing any of it just outof hand. I have never taken on a project like this before and certainly nothingwhere the stakes are so high. Nothing is dismissed, but ultimately a decisionwill be made.Jim.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 17:18:41 -0700 (PDT)
That is a good point, I really wouldn't anything to interfere with the rudder/elevator.That would ruin a day in a hurry. So I have been given opinions running the entire gauntlet, from Weight, KISS -why mess with it on the con side of the question and Flybaby does it so why not,use an aluminum plate on the bottom, and just pin it on there on the pro side.I assume the suggestion of the piano hinge pin is a suggestion in supportof. So some things to think about then. I don't think the weight is a very big deal, the only added weight is in the weightof the two spruce longerons at 52" each. All other structure would be thereeven if built per plans; stringers and ply formers are there either way. Aluminum plate seems to confirm my idea of having a better inspection area thana 3.5 inch inspection ring. Although this idea goes through the bottom wherepresumably it is easier and cleaner to do. Anyway some thought, cause over thinking is what I do. I really do appreciate all the input, and I am not dismissing any of it just outof hand. I have never taken on a project like this before and certainly nothingwhere the stakes are so high. Nothing is dismissed, but ultimately a decisionwill be made.Jim.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 17:18:41 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: "Skagit"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load> > Rob,> > The most effective way to maximize the load-carrying capacity of a Piet is tobuild it as lightly as possible. If you can keep the empty weight > down to 600 lbs or less, even with a 65HP Continental, your > passenger carrying capacity will most likely be restricted to those > that can get themselves into the front seat (but also depending on > the size of the pilot, of course). If you build a heavy aircraft, > you can compensate somewhat by adding more power, but the aircraft > may not perform so well, due to being heavier. The only other real > option is to reduce the weight of the pilot/passenger.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 380#370380> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load> > Rob,> > The most effective way to maximize the load-carrying capacity of a Piet is tobuild it as lightly as possible. If you can keep the empty weight > down to 600 lbs or less, even with a 65HP Continental, your > passenger carrying capacity will most likely be restricted to those > that can get themselves into the front seat (but also depending on > the size of the pilot, of course). If you build a heavy aircraft, > you can compensate somewhat by adding more power, but the aircraft > may not perform so well, due to being heavier. The only other real > option is to reduce the weight of the pilot/passenger.> > Bill C.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 380#370380> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load> > Hey Steve, I'm with ya buddy. I could stand to lose 25 or so and, you're right,it doesn't get any easier as I get older. Gone are the > days of losing 30 pounds in 3 months...> > This may be a subject for a new thread, but what are the easiest > ways to trim down the weight on the Piet?> > Rob> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 384#370384> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load> > Hey Steve, I'm with ya buddy. I could stand to lose 25 or so and, you're right,it doesn't get any easier as I get older. Gone are the > days of losing 30 pounds in 3 months...> > This may be a subject for a new thread, but what are the easiest > ways to trim down the weight on the Piet?> > Rob> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 384#370384> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: This came in the mail
Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Hi all-Doing due diligence on Piet's in preparation for a fall construction start. I'm seeing a lot of useful loads of 450 lbs. or so, most using the C-65. That'sme, full fuel and...my 10 year old. I'm thinking about doing a 100 HP Corvair, long fuse, brakes, starter, normal instrumentation.Any way to reasonably predict useful load? I'd like to get to530 lbs so I can take another adult pax with full fuel...any chance?Home runway is 9000' X 150' paved but I will be hitting grass strips. :DRobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: This came in the mail
Hi all-Doing due diligence on Piet's in preparation for a fall construction start. I'm seeing a lot of useful loads of 450 lbs. or so, most using the C-65. That'sme, full fuel and...my 10 year old. I'm thinking about doing a 100 HP Corvair, long fuse, brakes, starter, normal instrumentation.Any way to reasonably predict useful load? I'd like to get to530 lbs so I can take another adult pax with full fuel...any chance?Home runway is 9000' X 150' paved but I will be hitting grass strips. :DRobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: This came in the mail
Original Posted By: "Perry Rhoads"
Wonderful.... And a wood plaque no less.....!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Wonderful.... And a wood plaque no less.....!--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: "Skagit"
Rob,My Piet weighs 655 lbs. I weigh 230(sometimes more), and I have taken a 210 lb. passenger for a ride on a 2800' DA day. No problems at all. A-65, 690' field elevation.Perry RhoadsN12939----- Original Message -----
Rob,My Piet weighs 655 lbs. I weigh 230(sometimes more), and I have taken a 210 lb. passenger for a ride on a 2800' DA day. No problems at all. A-65, 690' field elevation.Perry RhoadsN12939----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
Rob,The most effective way to maximize the load-carrying capacity of a Piet is to buildit as lightly as possible. If you can keep the empty weight down to 600 lbsor less, even with a 65HP Continental, your passenger carrying capacity willmost likely be restricted to those that can get themselves into the front seat(but also depending on the size of the pilot, of course). If you build a heavyaircraft, you can compensate somewhat by adding more power, but the aircraftmay not perform so well, due to being heavier. The only other real option isto reduce the weight of the pilot/passenger.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Rob,The most effective way to maximize the load-carrying capacity of a Piet is to buildit as lightly as possible. If you can keep the empty weight down to 600 lbsor less, even with a 65HP Continental, your passenger carrying capacity willmost likely be restricted to those that can get themselves into the front seat(but also depending on the size of the pilot, of course). If you build a heavyaircraft, you can compensate somewhat by adding more power, but the aircraftmay not perform so well, due to being heavier. The only other real option isto reduce the weight of the pilot/passenger.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: Bill Church
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful loadI will take some flak for this but the second best way to maximize the load carryingcapability is to lose fat! I lost 30 lbs and my wife lost 15. That is 45lbs of useful load! Now I have gained 15 back but she has lost 5 more. So weare still able to carry 35 more pounds than last year!My experience is that after 40 years old, exercise is important and helps loseweight and maintain health, but it is much less effective than it was before Iwas 40. The best way to lose weight is Diet, Diet , Diet Diet. Eat a lot of protein,good veggies and cut calories. Eat 5 or 6 smaller meals per day if possible.Breakfast like a king. Lunch like a Prince and Supper like a pauper. Ieat a big egg substitute and turkey sausage breakfast, a mid morning snack, agood sized lunch, an afternoon snack, a good but light supper and a snack beforebed. The snacks are usually cliff or protein bars. Before bed I have a proteindrink. Eating colorful helps. I eat good food, but cut way down on bread and other highcarb foods. I eat some fat, but nothing high in fat. Lots of vitimins and minerals.LOTs and Lots of protein. Remember the LSA max weight is 1320. I am sure that none of you would go over that,the plane will explode into flames.Y'all be careful out there. Blue Skies,Steve D True confessions, My real weaknesses are Icecream, Chips and salsa (Salsa is Good,Chips are bad!) BBQ (meat is Good, Sugary sauce is bad.) and fat laden sausage.----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful loadI will take some flak for this but the second best way to maximize the load carryingcapability is to lose fat! I lost 30 lbs and my wife lost 15. That is 45lbs of useful load! Now I have gained 15 back but she has lost 5 more. So weare still able to carry 35 more pounds than last year!My experience is that after 40 years old, exercise is important and helps loseweight and maintain health, but it is much less effective than it was before Iwas 40. The best way to lose weight is Diet, Diet , Diet Diet. Eat a lot of protein,good veggies and cut calories. Eat 5 or 6 smaller meals per day if possible.Breakfast like a king. Lunch like a Prince and Supper like a pauper. Ieat a big egg substitute and turkey sausage breakfast, a mid morning snack, agood sized lunch, an afternoon snack, a good but light supper and a snack beforebed. The snacks are usually cliff or protein bars. Before bed I have a proteindrink. Eating colorful helps. I eat good food, but cut way down on bread and other highcarb foods. I eat some fat, but nothing high in fat. Lots of vitimins and minerals.LOTs and Lots of protein. Remember the LSA max weight is 1320. I am sure that none of you would go over that,the plane will explode into flames.Y'all be careful out there. Blue Skies,Steve D True confessions, My real weaknesses are Icecream, Chips and salsa (Salsa is Good,Chips are bad!) BBQ (meat is Good, Sugary sauce is bad.) and fat laden sausage.----- Original Message -----
Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
Hey Steve, I'm with ya buddy. I could stand to lose 25 or so and, you're right,it doesn't get any easier as I get older. Gone are the days of losing 30 poundsin 3 months...This may be a subject for a new thread, but what are the easiest ways to trim downthe weight on the Piet?RobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hey Steve, I'm with ya buddy. I could stand to lose 25 or so and, you're right,it doesn't get any easier as I get older. Gone are the days of losing 30 poundsin 3 months...This may be a subject for a new thread, but what are the easiest ways to trim downthe weight on the Piet?RobRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: Skagit
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful loadHow about Ping Pong balls?Ducking and running!Steve D----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful loadHow about Ping Pong balls?Ducking and running!Steve D----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Easiest way to trim down the weight of a Piet is to get a smaller pilot.But seriously, the easiest way to trim weight is to build it to the plans,and avoid the following items which I added to mine and regret (most ofthem)1. Use the split axle "Cub Style" (I don't like that term since itpre-dated the Cub by several years) gear with small, light wheels. I havewire wheels and a straight axle on mine and they add probably 20 lbs overthe split axle gear. I like the look of the wire wheels, but that lookcomes with a price that I can't carry passengers out of short fields on hotdays2. Build the short fuselage and don't add any extra width to it. I'm 6' 2"and 200 lbs, so I naturally built the long fuselage, and added an inch toits width. Probably added another 20 lbs, with the extra spruce, plywood,fabric and paint. Totally unnecesary. I have flown Mike Cuy's Piet withits short fuselage and fit in it just fine. And I flew Ryan Mueller's/JohnHofmann's Pietenpol from Tennessee to Brodhead fitting in it just fine (andby the way, it is the archetype of what I was saying earlier - build it tothe plans just like that Pietenpol, N502R, which John calls"Five-Oh-Two-Rocket").3. Use the lightweight grade of dacron fabric, at least for the tail andfuselage. I would use it for the entire airplane. Not only is the fabricitself lighter, but it takes less PolyBrush or dope or whatever system youare using to fill the weave. Would probably save at least 10 lbs.4. DO NOT USE POLYURETHANE PAINT. It looks nice, but it is expensive, verydifficult to repair (and yes, if you own your plane long enough you willneed to repair the fabric at some point), and it is VERY heavy. Because itis difficult to apply, I ended up with several coats on the fuselage. Iweighed my plane before covering and after painting and was appalled to findthat in the covering and painting process it gained 65 lbs. Most of thatwas paint.5. Don't add a radio or a transponder or a battery or any of those"improvements", but if you always fly with a handheld radio, figure it intoyour empty weight.Mine weighs 745 lbs empty, so it weighs about 110 lbs more than I hadestimated when I was building it. As was stated before, if you can keep theweight down to around 600 - 650 lbs, you will have a fine flying airplane.Mine flies well, but its climb is not spectacular. I have to cross the BlueRidge Mountains and the Allegheny Mountains each year on the way to Brodheadand there have been times that I've been struggling to get over a 5,000'ridge climbing at max rate of climb and losing altitude in a downdraft. Notfun.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Easiest way to trim down the weight of a Piet is to get a smaller pilot.But seriously, the easiest way to trim weight is to build it to the plans,and avoid the following items which I added to mine and regret (most ofthem)1. Use the split axle "Cub Style" (I don't like that term since itpre-dated the Cub by several years) gear with small, light wheels. I havewire wheels and a straight axle on mine and they add probably 20 lbs overthe split axle gear. I like the look of the wire wheels, but that lookcomes with a price that I can't carry passengers out of short fields on hotdays2. Build the short fuselage and don't add any extra width to it. I'm 6' 2"and 200 lbs, so I naturally built the long fuselage, and added an inch toits width. Probably added another 20 lbs, with the extra spruce, plywood,fabric and paint. Totally unnecesary. I have flown Mike Cuy's Piet withits short fuselage and fit in it just fine. And I flew Ryan Mueller's/JohnHofmann's Pietenpol from Tennessee to Brodhead fitting in it just fine (andby the way, it is the archetype of what I was saying earlier - build it tothe plans just like that Pietenpol, N502R, which John calls"Five-Oh-Two-Rocket").3. Use the lightweight grade of dacron fabric, at least for the tail andfuselage. I would use it for the entire airplane. Not only is the fabricitself lighter, but it takes less PolyBrush or dope or whatever system youare using to fill the weave. Would probably save at least 10 lbs.4. DO NOT USE POLYURETHANE PAINT. It looks nice, but it is expensive, verydifficult to repair (and yes, if you own your plane long enough you willneed to repair the fabric at some point), and it is VERY heavy. Because itis difficult to apply, I ended up with several coats on the fuselage. Iweighed my plane before covering and after painting and was appalled to findthat in the covering and painting process it gained 65 lbs. Most of thatwas paint.5. Don't add a radio or a transponder or a battery or any of those"improvements", but if you always fly with a handheld radio, figure it intoyour empty weight.Mine weighs 745 lbs empty, so it weighs about 110 lbs more than I hadestimated when I was building it. As was stated before, if you can keep theweight down to around 600 - 650 lbs, you will have a fine flying airplane.Mine flies well, but its climb is not spectacular. I have to cross the BlueRidge Mountains and the Allegheny Mountains each year on the way to Brodheadand there have been times that I've been struggling to get over a 5,000'ridge climbing at max rate of climb and losing altitude in a downdraft. Notfun.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Real world gross wt/useful load
Original Posted By: Jim Markle