Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB"
Shad, is your tail wheel going to have a cable or other provision to releases the lock while in the cockpit, or can you only disengage it at the wheel?- (It looks like a foot operated release only.)- -Can't answer the spring question, haven't done that yet.Michael PerezPietenpol HINT VideosKaretaker Aerowww.karetakeraero.com________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Uncle Jack's PietsHere is some more information on the Jack Reber Pietenpol's that are now for salein central Indiana. The message below was written by Alan Reber, Jack's nephew.Alan has a Tiger Moth and a nice Interstate Cadet he usually flies up toBrodhead for the fall MAAC fly in. These are nice airplanes and the Scout hasa fresh Model B engine. -john- > To all in Chapter 226 > Hey guys, > > Jeff Moore posted some basic information about the availability for sale ofmy uncle's aeroplanes after I talked to several of you at the Wednesday Nightersthis last week. Since yesterday I've received two phone calls and six e-mailsinquiring as to the price, etc., of both the Scout and the Aircamper so thereseems to be some real interest and I haven't even tried to advertise the saleyet. Some of the e-mails have come from people I don't know so I can't sayif they are just tire kickers or if they have a real desire to buy, but its obviousthat people are interested. I've talked to several knowledgeable peopleand I've gotten practically the exact same advice from all as to the value ofthe aeroplanes. I plan on asking $11000 for the Scout (this is on the advice ofJohn Hofmann who says that the freshly overhauled Model B engine is a real plus)and $16000 for the Aircamper. Of course the actual sale price will dependon the real demand (i.e. who's willing to write a check and for how much) butI'll be up-front about the terms and conditions. > > First, let me say that, through my cousin Phil Reber (uncle Jack's middle sonand owner of Merit Tool--uncle's former business) who is my aunt's officialrepresentative, I've been given full power to negotiate the sale of both aircraft.That said, my first concern is to sell these birds to my aunt's best advantage.I have no personal agenda other than to see that she is properly advisedand represented. > > Second, these aircraft will be sold on a good faith basis in an "as is" conditionwith no on-going responsibility, i.e. no written or implied guarantees orwarranties. These are home-built aircraft and all who would buy such will understandthis. > > Third, before the sale of either or both aircraft they will be given a conditioninspection and signed-of accordingly. This means that the Scout will havethe engine installed before sale (unless the buyer expressly desires to do theinstallation himself) and both aircraft will be in a 'fly-away' condition. Termsconcerning the delivery of the aircraft can be negotiated (I would be willingto ferry the aircraft a reasonable distance to the new owner subject to mywork schedules and weather--read temperature!!). With this in mind I need volunteersto do the engine installation and sign-off the condition inspections.See below. > > Notwithstanding the conditions above, I do have a personal interest in keepingone or both of the Piets locally (the Muncie, Anderson, Pendleton, Indy area)if possible and would be willing to form a syndicate to keep them here. Inother words, I might be willing to form a partnership with some like-minded guysto own the ONE of the the birds. If I do this it would mean a partnership witheach shareholder owning an equal part of the aeroplane and sharing the fixedcosts. I would insist on having at least a liability insurance policy coveringeach owner. Haul coverage would be by mutual consent. If there was no haulcoverage, that would mean that if you break it, you just bought-out all of theother partners. We would also share in the maintenance of the aircraft. Ideallythe machine would be located on a suitable grass strip in, of course, a hangar.If we have three, four or five partners no one will have that much in itand it would be "cheap" flying (I know--an oxymoron) and would, I think, be alot of fun. The above is food for thought. If anyone is seriously interestedplease let me know as soon as possible. > > Another route to keeping one of the Piets locally would be to have it as a 'Chapter'aeroplane. The same conditions as above would apply, there would justbe more owners. > > In either case, IF THERE IS A REAL INTEREST, please let me know as soon as possibleas I'm bound by my responsibility to Aunt Janelle to move these aeroplanesin a reasonable period of time. She is not distressed (i.e. she isn't desperatefor the money) but there is no interest in letting the aeroplanes sit aroundwaiting for the buyer to make up their mind. > > Feel free to call me on my cell (317-694-5339) or e-mail me at cadetmoth2(at)yahoo.comanytime. > > Thanks guys for all of your help and support. > > Alan Reber >________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 14:56:31 -0500

Original Posted By: "John Francis"
Thanks! I have to give some credit to Douwe... After discussing my paint schemewith him he nudged me into the ww1 theme. I initially was going to go with the1943-45 WWII logo, but this is more period correct.[quote="speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.n"]Chris, that looks great! I love the war-birdlook of the decal...and the wing color. We have similar tastes is this regard.Michael PerezPietenpol HINT VideosKaretaker Aerowww.karetakeraero.com> --------NX321LRFully AssembledTail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.Wings covered and primed, one paintedMitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
As some of you know, part of my Piet build program is learning to fly. An opportunityarose and I started learning to fly under part 141 with a local communitycollege. Pilot training in a Cessna 172I had two more flying lessons this week. My original feeling of being overwhelmedhas been replaced with frustration. It takes me a few hours after each lessonto think about what happened and why. I'm getting upset at myself for notgetting everything quickly. I think we all hope when we start something likethis that we are going to be "naturals" and it will come to us quickly. Myinstructor tells me I'm doing fine but I have my doubts.The bad stuff:1. Although my taxiing has improved I still over-steer and use brakes for steeringtoo often.2. The throttle control is still foreign to me and sometimes I push instead ofpull and vice-versa.3. I don't use enough rudder and my instructor wants me to get used to this ashe knows I will be flying a Pietenpol some day.4. My instructor covers up important gauges like the airspeed indicator on takeoff as he wants me to "feel" when the plane is ready to fly. I feel nothing.5. My transition and entry into the traffic pattern stinks as I seem to be verybusy watching altitude, speed, flaps, traffic and everything else my instructoris saying in my headset.6. My landings suck. I bounced it yesterday and missed the centerline.The good stuff:1. Instructor says I'm fine.2. Flying does not scare me or am I nervous when in the plane.3. He trusted me with the preflight yesterday.4. If pushed I believe I could do everything but land. (He's says I could landif he passed out and we would walk away from it.) 5. I've only had three lessons, three landings, and logged 2.6 hours of flightinstruction.John--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 07:59:11 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: Gary Boothe
Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 10, 2013, at 7:53 AM, "John Francis" wrote:> > As some of you know, part of my Piet build program is learning to fly. An opportunityarose and I started learning to fly under part 141 with a local communitycollege. > > > > Pilot training in a Cessna 172> > I had two more flying lessons this week. My original feeling of being overwhelmedhas been replaced with frustration. It takes me a few hours after eachlesson to think about what happened and why. I'm getting upset at myself fornot getting everything quickly. I think we all hope when we start something likethis that we are going to be "naturals" and it will come to us quickly. Myinstructor tells me I'm doing fine but I have my doubts.> > The bad stuff:> > 1. Although my taxiing has improved I still over-steer and use brakes for steeringtoo often.> 2. The throttle control is still foreign to me and sometimes I push instead ofpull and vice-versa.> 3. I don't use enough rudder and my instructor wants me to get used to this ashe knows I will be flying a Pietenpol some day.> 4. My instructor covers up important gauges like the airspeed indicator on takeoff as he wants me to "feel" when the plane is ready to fly. I feel nothing.> 5. My transition and entry into the traffic pattern stinks as I seem to be verybusy watching altitude, speed, flaps, traffic and everything else my instructoris saying in my headset.> 6. My landings suck. I bounced it yesterday and missed the centerline.> > The good stuff:> > 1. Instructor says I'm fine.> 2. Flying does not scare me or am I nervous when in the plane.> 3. He trusted me with the preflight yesterday.> 4. If pushed I believe I could do everything but land. (He's says I could landif he passed out and we would walk away from it.) > 5. I've only had three lessons, three landings, and logged 2.6 hours of flightinstruction.> > John> > --------> John Francis> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 959#393959> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 10, 2013, at 7:53 AM, "John Francis" wrote:> > As some of you know, part of my Piet build program is learning to fly. An opportunityarose and I started learning to fly under part 141 with a local communitycollege. > > > > Pilot training in a Cessna 172> > I had two more flying lessons this week. My original feeling of being overwhelmedhas been replaced with frustration. It takes me a few hours after eachlesson to think about what happened and why. I'm getting upset at myself fornot getting everything quickly. I think we all hope when we start something likethis that we are going to be "naturals" and it will come to us quickly. Myinstructor tells me I'm doing fine but I have my doubts.> > The bad stuff:> > 1. Although my taxiing has improved I still over-steer and use brakes for steeringtoo often.> 2. The throttle control is still foreign to me and sometimes I push instead ofpull and vice-versa.> 3. I don't use enough rudder and my instructor wants me to get used to this ashe knows I will be flying a Pietenpol some day.> 4. My instructor covers up important gauges like the airspeed indicator on takeoff as he wants me to "feel" when the plane is ready to fly. I feel nothing.> 5. My transition and entry into the traffic pattern stinks as I seem to be verybusy watching altitude, speed, flaps, traffic and everything else my instructoris saying in my headset.> 6. My landings suck. I bounced it yesterday and missed the centerline.> > The good stuff:> > 1. Instructor says I'm fine.> 2. Flying does not scare me or am I nervous when in the plane.> 3. He trusted me with the preflight yesterday.> 4. If pushed I believe I could do everything but land. (He's says I could landif he passed out and we would walk away from it.) > 5. I've only had three lessons, three landings, and logged 2.6 hours of flightinstruction.> > John> > --------> John Francis> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 959#393959> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 08:08:32 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: Matthew
Sorry, stupid I-phone! Meant to respond directly to John and kept touching the'send' button. I need a 3 sec delay...GarySent from my iPhoneOn Feb 10, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > > > Sent from my iPhone> > On Feb 10, 2013, at 7:53 AM, "John Francis" wrote:> >> >> As some of you know, part of my Piet build program is learning to fly. An opportunityarose and I started learning to fly under part 141 with a local communitycollege. >> >> >> >> Pilot training in a Cessna 172>> >> I had two more flying lessons this week. My original feeling of being overwhelmedhas been replaced with frustration. It takes me a few hours after eachlesson to think about what happened and why. I'm getting upset at myself fornot getting everything quickly. I think we all hope when we start somethinglike this that we are going to be "naturals" and it will come to us quickly. My instructor tells me I'm doing fine but I have my doubts.>> >> The bad stuff:>> >> 1. Although my taxiing has improved I still over-steer and use brakes for steeringtoo often.>> 2. The throttle control is still foreign to me and sometimes I push insteadof pull and vice-versa.>> 3. I don't use enough rudder and my instructor wants me to get used to thisas he knows I will be flying a Pietenpol some day.>> 4. My instructor covers up important gauges like the airspeed indicator on takeoff as he wants me to "feel" when the plane is ready to fly. I feel nothing.>> 5. My transition and entry into the traffic pattern stinks as I seem to be verybusy watching altitude, speed, flaps, traffic and everything else my instructoris saying in my headset.>> 6. My landings suck. I bounced it yesterday and missed the centerline.>> >> The good stuff:>> >> 1. Instructor says I'm fine.>> 2. Flying does not scare me or am I nervous when in the plane.>> 3. He trusted me with the preflight yesterday.>> 4. If pushed I believe I could do everything but land. (He's says I could landif he passed out and we would walk away from it.) >> 5. I've only had three lessons, three landings, and logged 2.6 hours of flightinstruction.>> >> John>> >> -------->> John Francis>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 959#393959> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: shad bell
Sounds like you are doing just fine John, and it also sounds like you have a prettygood instructor, who did you end up with? I'm looking to start there nextsemester.Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 10, 2013, at 10:53 AM, "John Francis" wrote:> > As some of you know, part of my Piet build program is learning to fly. An opportunityarose and I started learning to fly under part 141 with a local communitycollege. > > > > Pilot training in a Cessna 172> > I had two more flying lessons this week. My original feeling of being overwhelmedhas been replaced with frustration. It takes me a few hours after eachlesson to think about what happened and why. I'm getting upset at myself fornot getting everything quickly. I think we all hope when we start something likethis that we are going to be "naturals" and it will come to us quickly. Myinstructor tells me I'm doing fine but I have my doubts.> > The bad stuff:> > 1. Although my taxiing has improved I still over-steer and use brakes for steeringtoo often.> 2. The throttle control is still foreign to me and sometimes I push instead ofpull and vice-versa.> 3. I don't use enough rudder and my instructor wants me to get used to this ashe knows I will be flying a Pietenpol some day.> 4. My instructor covers up important gauges like the airspeed indicator on takeoff as he wants me to "feel" when the plane is ready to fly. I feel nothing.> 5. My transition and entry into the traffic pattern stinks as I seem to be verybusy watching altitude, speed, flaps, traffic and everything else my instructoris saying in my headset.> 6. My landings suck. I bounced it yesterday and missed the centerline.> > The good stuff:> > 1. Instructor says I'm fine.> 2. Flying does not scare me or am I nervous when in the plane.> 3. He trusted me with the preflight yesterday.> 4. If pushed I believe I could do everything but land. (He's says I could landif he passed out and we would walk away from it.) > 5. I've only had three lessons, three landings, and logged 2.6 hours of flightinstruction.> > John> > --------> John Francis> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 959#393959> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 08:36:14 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: shad bell
Shawn Riffee is my instructor.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 09:03:14 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue> Jack T, Just some FYI...I plan to take my lessons in a 140 as > well. Any advise would be appreciated. I did pretty good my > first ever attempts taxing around Mike Cuy's Piet. (He may say > otherwise...shocked he let me do it.) > > Perhaps in another thread or direct to me. I don't want to "high > jack" John's original post.> > Michael Perez> Pietenpol HINT Videos> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: Jack
Chris, Would you have the contact intel on that local sign shop handy? My GN-1"warbird" is painted in P6 Hawk colors...only thing missing are those exact decals.Thx in advance...Larry N2308CRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: "tools"
...attempted warbird attachment photo..Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/warb ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: "Jeffro"
About everything associated with learning to fly is N E W. It's just gonna takesome time for you to start assimilating it all. Being frustrated is fine, but don't let it get to you too much. It's like stress,stress is good as long as you don't let it get past the performance enhancinglevel, ya know?I taught a lot in the Navy, and about everything I taught was very new to the students,weird esoteric stuff and they seemed to have the same reactions you'rehaving (which I remember having very well). I found that when you're frustratedall around like this, it all tends to just come together at once as well.Something to consider talking to your instructor about is either concentratingon one little thing a bit more (so that you get it sooner with the associatedfeeling of accomplishment) or spread out even more (so that you don't get veryfrustrated with any one thing too much). Everyone is different, so maybe bringit up, experiment a bit and see if you can find a pace that fits your styleof learning more. I have found that once you do get frustrated with something, like landings, aftera couple bad ones, just give it up a bit (like to the next lesson or something)and let what you have learned soak in a bit. Not feeling the airplane is almost always accompanied by being very tense. Weused to call is squeezing the black juice out of the stick grip... Try to consciouslylet go of the yoke (or throttle) every so often and physically loosenup your arm! It's VERY normal to get an arm, or feet, so tight you'll get cramps!When I was getting my tailwheel endorsement last year, my legs would besore at the end of the lesson from pushing with BOTH my feet so much. When ever I'd suspect a student doing that, I'd reach down and nudge the stick(tandam seating, so couldn't look and see). Every once in a while I'd find Icouldn't BUDGE the stick at all. I imagine I'd get up to 15 lbs of force or moreon the stick before they'd even notice. The MOST IMPORTANT thing of all is that you enjoy it. Unfortunately flying lessonsare expensive, but it may also be worth considering doing something fun inthe plane, rather than just LEARN the whole flight. Go somewhere, fly someREALLY wide large patterns to just slow things down some and relax, take alongyour spouse, kid, friend, and let them take a turn in the hot seat while youwatch a few (you'd be AMAZED at what you learn by sitting back about 18 inches...)landings or whatever. One not often used thing I would do with some students was to become a voice activatedauto pilot. I'd have them direct my every move... that made them awareof everything, without using their muscles to get it done, seemed to increasea level of awareness once in a while. Conversely, sometimes I'd take away afunction or two and let them JUST do what they needed a little help with (tothe point of flying angle of attack landings while they did NOTHING but move thethrottle). Every student and instructor are different, and your interaction is unique. At3 hrs or so, if he feels you can fly without killing him, you're doing FINE!Seriously. Remember, everyone out here not flying a lot, is jealous. Revel in your luck andhave fun for us, keep coming back and telling us about it so we can live vicariously!Cheers,Tools (who really took a trip down memory lane listening to some of those "woes")Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fwd: Uncle Jack's Piets

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Any Chance you could include more details on the Pietenpol? Buyers like me arelooking for total time on engine, and SMOH, empty weight, how many gallons thefuel tank holds, year built (1979 sound right?) any photos of the panel andany other details like how many hours flown in the last year.ThanksJeff GabrielsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
John... don't get too frustrated. At three hours I was probably still trying totaxi with the yoke! Ok, maybe not. While the minimum is 40 hours, I certainly wouldn't set your sights there. Bepatient. Some things will come easier than others. I'll go ahead and tell onmyself for the sake of encouragement... it took me 33 hours to solo...Now that the laughter has died down, I'll add that I stopped and started flighttraining twice in the first 25 hours due to work, school, life, etc. One ofthose times was for a complete year, so with 15 hours or so I felt like I wasstarting over, almost from scratch. None the less I got my license at 82 hours.Waaay above the average of 60 hours or so, but I didn't care... it took aslong as it did for a variety of reasons. 1. Stopping and starting didn't help.2. I didn't always fly regularly... sometimes a month would go by betweenlessons... something to avoid if at all possible. 3. My instructor was very thorough...when I did take my check ride I missed NOTHING! Was that worth a fewextra bucks/hours? I suppose. As I said... some things will come easier than others... look forward to the thingsthat you are good at and make up your mind that you won't let them be a bighurdle. My landings were bad for a long time (due to the reasons I've mentioned),but radio work was no sweat! As an RTO in the Army and an Amateur Radiooperator, I already had this skill mastered, in fact I found it to be fun!I personally know at least one person (maybe others) that quit flight trainingbecause they couldn't get comfortable with the radio. Seem so odd to me, butto them, it was apparently deal breaker. It certainly doesn't need to be. Whatabout the charts? If you have any experience with military map reading youmay find flight planning to be somewhat familiar and fun! Could be that thereare other things that you may not struggle with as much as others. Even ifit is all a challenge to you, it is well worth the effort... be patient, it willcome. One thing that you appear to have going for you is that it sounds likeyou have a good instructor.Another quick story and I'll stop... a friend of mine from grade school got histicket around the same time I did... we had not talked for over 20 years, butfound each other an began to catch up. Neither of us were surprised to findout that we had both completed private flight training. What was different wasthat it took me 82 hours to get my ticket while it only took him 42. I rememberthinking to myself... man, he must have been really good. Come to find out,his instructor was a friend of his and from the very beginning their primarygoal was to get him checked out in the fewest hours possible... 42 is aboutas low as it gets. One day, some time later, he was planning to use the club'sCherokee for a cross country trip and he commented to me, "this is where Ireally wish I would have got more training." While he got his license in wellbelow the average number of flight hours, he really wasn't comfortable with hisskills in a few areas where a minimum amount of attention was given. I lookedback at all the extra time I spent training and was glad that I didn't feelthe same.Anyhow, there it is for what it's worth. The way to look at this adventure isthat it will take as long as it takes. I fully expect that if you fly regularlyyou will soon be looking forward with confidence and an empty right seat. At3 hours almost nothing was coming together for me. I understood the concept,but I certainly wasn't "feeling" the airplane just yet. There are certainlyothers on the list with WAY more knowledge and experience than I have, but froma guy who didn't breeze through flight training, nor who has hundreds or thousandsof flight hours, I hope my story will give you some hope. Hang in there, the fun is just now starting!--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing GearRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: John Hofmann
I"m with tools... keep us posted! I haven't flown PIC in a long time, and yourstories of training will likely bring up fond memories for many.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage and Fuse framed up - Working on Landing GearRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
I posted what I have. There is contact information in the message. I would say if you are really serious, contact Alan and he will get you whatever you need.Best,-john-John HofmannVice-President, Information TechnologyThe Rees Group, Inc.2424 American LaneMadison, WI 53704Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150Fax: 608.443.2474Email: jhofmann(at)reesgroupinc.comOn Feb 10, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Jeffro wrote:> > Any Chance you could include more details on the Pietenpol? Buyers like me are looking for total time on engine, and SMOH, empty weight, how many gallons the fuel tank holds, year built (1979 sound right?) any photos of the panel and any other details like how many hours flown in the last year.> > Thanks> Jeff Gabrielson> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 981#393981> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fabricating music wire springs

Original Posted By: "Scott Knowlton "
Hey Shad,I've made springs on a lathe with music wire, but I don't think I ever stressedrelieved them. Hmm... Maybe I should have.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fwd: Uncle Jack's PietsJohn, Great progress and it sounds like you have a good instructor to mentor you. 2.6is but a small amount of time and your will find yourself making great progresssoon enough as it sounds like you have the right attitude. Listen to Tools, he makes some great points. I have taught for several years and continue to do so - mostly in taildragger aircraftat this point. A technique I would like to propose to you to help youachieve your goals and maximize each lesson is the practice of "arm chair flying".It sounds odd and ineffective but for many it's a real game changer. Youcan do it as often as your lifestyle allows and the best part is it's FREE!Flying is literally a collection of maneuvers which combine manipulation of flightcontrols (primary and ancillary) and power. What tends to get students boggeddown and saturated in the early stages is the fact that anything you do(start, taxi, take-off, climb, level-off....) Is a series of inputs required byyou. These inputs are not yet second nature (2.6 hours of experience) so asyou are confronted with the need to re-call the steps while consumed with maintainingsimple control of the airplane. Arm chair flying enables you to re-createeach one of the maneuvers in the comfort of your own home and practice themlike drill. The simplest form of armchair flying is simply sitting in a chairwith your eyes closed and visualizing a maneuver (ie Level Off - 50 feetbefore target altitude slowly lower the nose to the cruise attitude, allow theaircraft to accelerate, select cruise power, trim). Work the imaginary controlswith your hands and say the procedure aloud - repeat. Do this with each exerciseyou've already done with your instructor. Do it as often as you can andmake a point of reviewing new items you learned on the day you learned them.If you want to get fancy, buy a poster of your training plane panel, dry mountit and put it in front of you while you arm chair fly. The next time yougo flying your instructor may accuse you of practicing with someone else betweenlessons! Good luck and enjoy the process. You'll do great! Scott Knowlton. -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "John Francis"
2.6 hours? You haven't even started yet. I had a student in primary flight training in the Navy who had 30 hours and hadn't looked out of the cockpit but a couple of times. When I went through flight training the common belief was that you should be ready for first solo after 8 hours. I had a little over 10 when I soloed the first time. That front seat looked awfully empty. Be patient. It will come. C----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: George Abernathy

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
John,Sounds like you're doing fine. Just remember that it is a process, andthere will be good days when you make it look easy and days where nothingyou do will be right. Don't be in a hurry to solo. You seem to have a goodinstructor and he will tell you when you're ready to solo.Once you get beyond the 172 you'll find that some other airplanes (such as aPietenpol) have a lot more "feel" involved in flying them. A Cessna 172 isa nice airplane but it doesn't register very high in the "feel" department.As Jerry said put a little backpressure on the yoke during takeoff and itwill let you know when the nose wheel is ready to lift off the runway.Just enjoy the process, and remember - we're all student pilots becausethere's always something new to learn in flying.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: shad bell
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons ContinueJohn, Ditto what everyone else has said. and now for some miscelanneious advice:Your landings suck because your instructor is not teaching you to land yet! Heis teaching your straight and level, climbs, descents, turns and many other thingsthat will be put togather to teach you to land. The only reason you havedone 3 landings is because the plane had to land at the end of the lesson. Yourinstructor is doing it right and you are OK! As long as you enjoy your flight training overall, you will love flying. You will have some plateaus where you don't feel like you are progressing. Somedays you will be discouraged, But remember you are doing something most peopledon't even consider possible. A bad day flying is better than a good day atwork! (unless you bend a plane.) On the rudder. At least your instructor talks to you. My Aeronca Champ tailwheelinstructor rolled up a sectional and would hit me on the head and scream "stepon the ball" I still don't feel it in the seat of my pants the way he did.)When I took a sailplane flight the instructor complemented my use of rudders.Regarding being overwhelmed in the traffic pattern. Your instructor is right lookat everything. But remember you can't do 5 things at once, you only have todo two things at a time. 1. fly the plane, 2 any one other thing (first watchaltitude, then look outside, then glance at airspeed, then look outside, rememberyou only hit the flaps 2 or three times at specific places, then look outside,you are looking for traffic while you are looking outside. Your instructoris making sure that you don't get fixated on any one thing. IE looking outsidefor traffic and letting airspeed deteriorate or fixing on the airspeed indicatorand swapping paint with anouther plane,......When You feel like it is too much too fast. Ask your instructor if y'all can justgo to the practice area and fly around. maybe redo some of the earlier flightlesson info. just a little confidence building time. However, you do want your instructor to push you to the next level. Don't try to push the controls around to make the plane do what you want. Put pressurethe way you want the plane to go. then adjust the pressure to get whatyou want. If you walk away from the landing you will get better. Later on you will learnhow to lie. "Boy that was a smooth landing, now everyone get ready for the speedbump!"Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:27:49 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons ContinueMichael, When you switch to the Piet, don't let switching from a yoke to a stickrattle you. also you will be switching from left hand on the yoke to right handon the stick. Don't really think about it, just do it. Seriously. you don't need to overthinkit. Blue Skies,Steve D.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jack
John,Congratulations on your initial flights. I guarantee that if you were below thenorm (what the average student pilot was doing at that phase), you would be havingdifferent conversations with your CFI.Enjoy the journey. Take it one step at a time, and celebrate the small victories.This is an economic issue, but fly as often as you can afford. It will makethe learning easier and the relearning (reinventing the wheel, I call it) less.We should not take the place of your CFI, but if I can help, let me know, and Iam sure the other pilots (especially CFIs) on this forum feel the same way. Continue to share with all of us.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Michael the 140 is a fantastic trainer. You want to stay off the brakes especially if it does not have wheel extenders. Like others have commented stay light on the hands and feet, feel the airplane. Your instructor will have many more thoughts to help you. To be honest I'm thinking about mounting my throttle on the right side of the cockpit, I'm to old to learn to fly with my right hand!Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Feb 10, 2013, at 4:43 PM, Michael Perez wrote:> > Jack T, Just some FYI...I plan to take my lessons in a 140 as well. Any advise would be appreciated. I did pretty good my first ever attempts taxing around Mike Cuy's Piet. (He may say otherwise...shocked he let me do it.)> > Perhaps in another thread or direct to me. I don't want to "high jack" John's original post.> > Michael Perez> Pietenpol HINT Videos> Karetaker Aero> www.karetakeraero.com> > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: Jack
Jack....tell me it ain't so! I think after you learn right hand stick and left hand throttle you'll be sold on it. To me it is much more natural than flight controls in the left hand. Of course I am right-handed, so maybe that makes a difference.Dan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: jarheadpilot82
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying Lessons ContinueJust a thought, Microsoft Flight Sim X has a Flight instruction section that followalong with a normal flight training in a 172. If not before, then after thelesson you could review it using that. The instructor is Ron Macado and heis pretty funny. The principles are there. Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Gardiner

Original Posted By: "M. Zeke Zechini"
Thanks to all for the encouragement, and advice, I needed it. I think I can upmy game a little to in preparing more for the next lesson. Part 141 requiresan agenda and details of each lesson. I need to study what is going to be presentedto me next and be prepared. During the next flight I know that I willbe "Introduced" to:Turns to HeadingsClimbing and Descending TurnsSteep TurnsEmergency Approach and Landing (simulated)Systems and Equipment MalfunctionsWake Turbulence AvoidanceI will review:National Airspace SystemCrosswind TaxiRadio communicationsManeuvering During Slow FlightPower Off Stalls (imminent)Power On Stalls (imminent)Normal Approach and LandingGo-Around/Rejected LandingCollision AvoidanceThanks to all.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By:> Jack
I am left-handed and it still seems natural. Yoke-controlled airplanes came easy...but they just ain't as fun. It is a time/experience/muscle memory thing?Sent from my iPadOn Feb 10, 2013, at 8:15 PM, helspersew(at)aol.com wrote:> Jack....tell me it ain't so! I think after you learn right hand stick and left hand throttle you'll be sold on it. To me it is much more natural than flight controls in the left hand. Of course I am right-handed, so maybe that makes a difference.> > Dan Helsper> Puryear, TN> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Jake;My father lived into his 80s, but the last 10 or so years were under the dark cloudof Alzheimer's, so it was all over for Dad for a long time before he actuallyleft this world.I read your Dad's obituary and it sounds like our fathers led somewhat similarlives. My Dad loved hunting and fishing, and it was his stories and photos fromAlaska that always had me hankering to go up there sometime. He hunted caribou,mountain goats, Dall sheep, geese, chukars... and fished for everythingthat swam up there. I came quite close one year... had all the maps, charts,and information on staying in a Forest Service cabin in the wild, up there. Iplanned on flying into Alaska in the Super Cub that I was renting here in Oregonat the time. It never happened, but dreaming and planning were enough, Iguess.It was only when I was in my late 20s that I found out that my Dad had been a studentpilot, but it was much earlier than that when I became aware that his bestfriend and business partner had been killed when he flew his light plane intoa thunderstorm one summer evening. It didn't make an impact on me then, butI realize now that it's the reason why Dad never pursued his private pilot'slicense.That didn't keep him from introducing me to aviation, though. I got my very firstairplane ride in the right seat of a Luscombe, owned and piloted by WallyCarson... my dad's friend. Dad wanted me to experience what he had discovered,about seeing things from the air, about flying. I will never forget that flight,as I watched the ground melt away from the tires of the Luscombe and thenI beheld the vast area of the south Texas brush country... the winding Rio Granderiver... and my hometown of Laredo, Texas... all from a platform that Inever knew existed. The feeling and the memory are as real today as they weresome 50+ years ago.We had 10 years or so to let go of Dad, and it was both easier and harder thatway. There are no words to make it easier, but there sure are memories that help.Hang onto those.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By: "John Francis"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: lefty righty> What's funny is that 90% of us learned to fly with our left hand > in a yoked airplane yet 90% of us are probably> right handed so we started right off the bat flying with the hand > we're not dominant in yet did well. I flew left> handed for 10 years and when we bought a Champ going to the right > hand was literally a no brainer and no matter> what hand you choose to fly with a stick in an airplane feels 100% > more natural than a yoke. (least to me anyway).> > The first few hours of flying lessons can be overwhelming with all > that is going on that we're not used to. Some great> advice given John. Give yourself time. And as others have > said, 40 hours for a private is the FAA minimum. Few> are ready for the private checkride at 40 hours or they don't have > all the night or cross country time required yet.> Mark Chouinard made a great point in that he too his checkride > with many hours compared to his buddy but his buddy> wishes he would have had more time, not just the minimum. I > soloed pretty quickly at 5 hours but it took me 80 before> my instructor (he wasn't in the Navy) signed me off for my checkride.> > Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By:> >> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue> No. And not true rag v metal. Both had fabric wings. C-140A had, > basically, 150 wings with single strut. > > Gene> > On Feb 11, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Marcus Zechini > > Jack:> > Do C-120s have sticks, not yokes?> > I thought only diff was no flaps & rag vice metal wing.> > Zeke> > > > On Feb 11, 2013 11:43 AM, "Jack Phillips" >> And the little D-shaped windows in the back (standard on the 140), but many120s have added those under an STC> >> > >> > >> > >> Jack Phillips> >> > >> NX899JP> >> > >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> >> > >> > >>

Original Posted By:> >> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue> No. And not true rag v metal. Both had fabric wings. C-140A had, > basically, 150 wings with single strut.> > Gene> > On Feb 11, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Marcus Zechini > > Jack:> > Do C-120s have sticks, not yokes?> > I thought only diff was no flaps & rag vice metal wing.> > Zeke> > > > On Feb 11, 2013 11:43 AM, "Jack Phillips" >> And the little D-shaped windows in the back (standard on the 140), > >> but many 120's have added those under an STC> >> > >> > >> > >> Jack Phillips> >> > >> NX899JP> >> > >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia> >> > >> > >>

Original Posted By: "C N Campbell"
When I first was a Student Naval Aviator many years ago, I was worried that I wouldnot be able to fly with my right hand (actually I was worried I wouldn'tbe able to fly - period. But I digress). However, it really came naturally andI found it to be an advantage when it came to flying instruments. I could writedown the clearance and not have to change hands. The right handed guys hadto fly with their left hand so they could write on their kneeboard. A slight advantageto us lefties. Maybe the guys that first started designing military cockpitswere lefties and wanted to get back at the righties![Wink] Flying right handed will take you minutes to get used to-I promise.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Guys, I used to have a man & wife team as flight students. They owned a Cessna 140 and it had two yokes rather than sticks. Are you saying that some of the 140s have sticks? I thought that Cessna went from sticks in the 120 to yokes in the 140. Sure you don't have a 120? Chuck----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "C N Campbell"
Hang in there, a lot to comprehend at first but it will get easier. I had a slightproblem with rudders, so being an ole farm boy practiced while row crop cultivating,steer to right, apply left brake, resulted in straight ahead, of courseI soon burned the brakes out, but ,hey, I learned. [Wink] Throttle on lefthand, stick on right: was a natural as i spent years flying RC, and that helpedtremendously. Used to practice rudder on RC by standing on one foot thenthe other. Summation: what ever works!--------A remarkable lad , capable of many thingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB"
Ditto on the early landing bit. When I was instructing primary, the student did takeoffs (with a lot of help) right from the start. But he/she didn't even attempt landing until the airwork was pretty well done correctly. From that point on each lesson had a little airwork review and then the rest of the period would be landing after landing after landing (mostly touch and go) until ready for solo. I taught one thing at a time -- don't confuse the student with too much at first. C----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By:> Michael Perez
Both 120 and 140 had yokes. No sticks. Biggest difference was flaps on 140. GeneSent from my iPadOn Feb 11, 2013, at 9:16 AM, "C N Campbell" wrote:> Guys, I used to have a man & wife team as flight students. They owned a Cessna 140 and it had two yokes rather than sticks. Are you saying that some of the 140s have sticks? I thought that Cessna went from sticks in the 120 to yokes in the 140. Sure you don't have a 120? Chuck> > ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
OK. you're right, Gene. I remember now that the only difference was the flaps. I think anyone who plans on building/flying a Piet should, if at all possible, train in a stick-controlled airplane. That goes for you, too, Michael. Find someone with a Cub, T-craft, or some such aircraft and learn RIGHT right from the start. If you have to learn with a yoke, ask the instructor to let you learn from the right seat to get used to flying the airplane with your right hand and doing all the other stuff with your left. Think that would work? C ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By:> John Francis
John,Small world, Shawn's grandfather Dan Riffee lives here at Hales Landing.Dan is a great home builder he is building a Bearhawk and a couple woodsingle place VW powered planes of his own design. I use him for technicaladvise all the time.Skip> [Original Message]

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
And the little D-shaped windows in the back (standard on the 140), but many120's have added those under an STCJack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____

Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: lefty rightyMike, 40 hours for a private was set in the 1950s. Since then a great deal of informationhas been added as well as technology. On top of that add the complexairspace we now have. The result is what was normally 40 to 45 hours is nowaveraging 60+. 40-45 is much more doable in a remote airport with no tower or ATC conerns. The Sport Pilot ticket is actually much closer to what a PPL was in the 1950s.IMHO (BIKIAR)Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Marcus Zechini
Thanks for the info Michael. One of the books required for the course is the "PilotManeuvers Guide" from Sporty's which shows all the required maneuvers. I need to spend more time with my nose in this book.--------John FrancisRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:46:49 -0500Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying Lessons Continue

Original Posted By:>> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-l
No. And not true rag v metal. Both had fabric wings. C-140A had, basically, 150 wings with single strut. GeneOn Feb 11, 2013, at 11:46 AM, Marcus Zechini wrote:> Jack:> Do C-120s have sticks, not yokes?> I thought only diff was no flaps & rag vice metal wing.> Zeke> > On Feb 11, 2013 11:43 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:>> And the little D-shaped windows in the back (standard on the 140), but many 120=99s have added those under an STC>> >> >> >> Jack Phillips>> >> NX899JP>> >> Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia>> >> >>