Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "pringljo"
Hi all,It is time to sell my GN1/Piet. I have had the privilege of owning and flying Felixthe GN1 since 2006 and over 200 hours. The highlight of course was 2009 whenwe flew to Brodhead and OSH and back to WV, 2 up. I am getting closer to completionof my Piet (started in 1990) and need the space as I am only a stepor 2 away from attaching the wings for rigging.I love flying the Grega, much more than the Chief, and hate to see it go, but itis time.It has an A65, aircraft time and SMHO is 485 or so as I fly when I can. It wascertified 1998, completed by Felix Quast(Dick N's distant cousin) The projectwas started back in the 60's or 70's, not by Felix. Felix has the Piet type wingnot a Cub wing. It flys just like a Piet. Cruz is 68mph, stall something under40mph. It has a standard Cub cowl tank and a 4gal wing tank, which I use onlyfor cross country flying. It has a tow hook type release used to hand prop,than release from cockpit, PF Beck gave me. It has been real handy to have closeby when I am trying to figure out something on my project and I have usedseveral ideas from Felix on my Piet. After flying it for a couple years I decidedI agree with Jack P, that the cut out center section is a good thing forviability and worth the small loss of lift.Will go back up on Barnstormers shortly, $12,000.Email or call with questions.H 304 275-3787C 304 483-8342Skipskipgadd(at)earthlink.netEarthLink Revolves Around You.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: How straight is straight?

Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
I recently bought some rough cut spruce to build my spars out of. I ran them throughmy table saw to try and get a good straight edge on them, and I don't thinkmy results are adequate. If I lay all the planks on top of each other, and look down the long edge, I findthat they are not perfectly aligned. there are variations of up to 1/8 (maybeslightly less) inch from one edge to the other. It could be that each boardis off by a 1/16th, or some variation/combination of that. In other words,the edge is slightly wavy. It's imperceptible to the naked eye if you just lookat each board individually. This is on a board that is 16 feet long. My question is whether I need to find some larger professional woodworking facilityto help me fix these boards, or if this is acceptable variation?--------Joe PringleAtlanta, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:07:07 +0000 (UTC)

Original Posted By: "pringljo"
Seen it fly at Sentimental Journey this year. They did a demo flight comparinga standard prop J-3 to an Everal Prop J-3. Everal prop was hard to beat!Climbed faster at a more AOA, faster in level flight. Great idea, but was not practicalfor every day flying.Cool video!WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How straight is straight?

Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
Thanks Keri Ann. Someone recommended that I get a 16 foot board with a known straightedge, lay it on top of my piece and use a Pattern bit on my router. Thatseems like it might be an easy solution also. I'll post the results--------Joe PringleAtlanta, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How straight is straight?

Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
womenfly2 wrote:> Sounds like you are okay to use with a 1/16 to 1/8 out of flatness. The jig willhelp with the straightness, just block it up good. After its all glued-upyou will be fine.> > If a board does not have a finished edge to begin with as you have seem runningit through a table saw will not give a perfect edge. One way is to attach astraight edge to the board being cut so it rides the fence then rip it. Thisis very important that the edge be true before ripping pieces from it.> > Or one would run the edge on a joiner first to true the edge before ripping morepieces form it. But joiners are expensive, specially if you only need it afew times.> > If you want to do it yourself go an purchase a block plane, the longer the planeface the truer the edge will be that you are planing. One does not need expensivetools to do this.> > With a hand surface plane: > With a table saw, you get the idea: > > You would want a plane at least that size with a razor sharp cutting blade.> > Good luck, learn and have fun,> WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Can't say enough for the wing center section cutout with the hand-hold I built into mine. It makes getting in and out really easy plus I can stand up in the seat and easily reach my center section luggage area to load/unload. As Jack Phillips pointed out the upward visibility in turns (especially in and around the traffic pattern) is really increased with the cutout.I figured if so many of the biplane types (Jenny, Stearman, Waco) had cutouts with handholds, it probably is a good idea.Just like a little dihedral. When debating flat wing or dihedral, Forrest Barber said "heck,....birds have dihedral, that's a good enough reason for me." Me too.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How straight is straight?

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Could you not use a steel stud as a guide? I think they are pretty straight.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:58:35 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing center section cutout

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Excellent idea, Oscar! Just screw in on the ends...Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Larry Williams"
Weight & Balance (WB) / Datum / Center of Gravity (CG)======================================Perhaps I am just having too much fun over thinking this...... I would like tofigure this out for my piece of mind.Attached below for N687MB are:W&B Spreadsheet W&B Arm Chart (screen shot)W&B Calculations (screen shot)Snap shots of Page 1 of the 1933 plans that hint that the Datum is actually 7.5inches ahead of the leading edge.Center of GravityCan someone figure out where I went wrong in the spreadsheet? The Weight/Arm/Momenttable says CG is at 17.7 aft of the datum. The long hand calculations /Percent of Wing Chord says the CG is at 15.2 inches aft of the datum. I can'tfind the error that is causing the 2.5 inch difference.DatumI read posts that say the Datum is the leading edge of the Wing. My question rightnow is based on the attached snap shots of my 1933 plans for N687MB. I canfind no notes any where on the plans that says that Datum is the LE. However, in the snap shots of page 1 - there is vertical line 7.5" ahead of theLE and a penciled in note that says its 9.5 inches ahead of the LE. Could thisline be the Datum?I am hoping someday soon I will be able to talk with Mr. Brusilow, the builder,and ask him. [/u]--------Jim McWhorterN687MB (New Owner)Culpeper, VA KCJRRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/n687 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How straight is straight?

Original Posted By: danhelsper(at)aol.com
Jim; the "mystery vertical line" is, of course, the plane of the firewall. It'sa very handy and uniform place from which to measure other things (such as theaxle or the wing). It can also be used as the datum for doing your W&B butso can anything else that you choose. Some people use the very front of theprop hub, simply so that all moment arms are measured in the same direction fromthat point and all moments are clockwise and positive (no subtracting of moments).It is useful to have the wing leading edge as the datum because that'sthe reference that we typically refer the acceptable range of CG location to,and it's also what most people use. If you keep your + and - signs correctfor moment arms that are forward and aft of the datum, the math is pretty simpleand it all works out.I have not checked through your calculations to see where things may have goneamiss, but I'll be happy to do so this evening when I have some time. Math errorsare common in W&B calculations.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How straight is straight?

Original Posted By: Larry Williams
Which one of these denotes "Top Curmudgeon"?--------L.V.WilliamsXCG, XCMR,EPPUSHPA, EAA, AMADan HelsperPuryear, TN-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Hi Oscar, Thanks for chiming in. I do understand that the Datum can be anything the builderwants it to be including some point in space beyond the hub - why some wouldis beyond me. But the FAA W&B book says its possible.Since I didn't build Mr. Sam and at the moment can't get in touch with the builder- what do i do now? The airplane flies fine and probably could just acceptthat and life goes on. But, I just one of those guys who just has to knowfor my own piece of mind. Just for fun, I did this crap for flights in my Maule.Hows this for a theoretical approach to the problem. Could one put the Piet ona fulcrum (a heavily padded saw horse) and just find the empty weight balancepoint and call that the CG point. Then, put in a pilot and a full load of fueland rebalance the Piet. That would be the approximate aft limit of the CG.Then put in a passenger and once again re-balance the Piet. Could one callthat the forward limit of the CG?Then could one measure from the empty weight CG to the Leading edge and call thatthe Initial datum measurement? From there just re-measure everything.Then, how would one prove this using conventional W&B / CG calculations? Or, maybe I should just go flying ......javascript:emoticon('[Laughing]')taildrags wrote:> Jim; the "mystery vertical line" is, of course, the plane of the firewall. It'sa very handy and uniform place from which to measure other things (such asthe axle or the wing). It can also be used as the datum for doing your W&B butso can anything else that you choose. Some people use the very front of theprop hub, simply so that all moment arms are measured in the same directionfrom that point and all moments are clockwise and positive (no subtracting ofmoments). It is useful to have the wing leading edge as the datum because that'sthe reference that we typically refer the acceptable range of CG locationto, and it's also what most people use. If you keep your + and - signs correctfor moment arms that are forward and aft of the datum, the math is pretty simpleand it all works out.> > I have not checked through your calculations to see where things may have goneamiss, but I'll be happy to do so this evening when I have some time. Matherrors are common in W&B calculations. [Laughing]--------Jim McWhorterN687MB (New Owner)Culpeper, VA KCJRRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 20:39:55 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: How straight is straight?