Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Be careful who you look to for ideas. The group you are referring to did NOT buildPietenpol Air Campers. Their aircraft are so highly modified and changed fromthe original that referring to them as Pietenpol's is stretching credibilitypretty far. Look at other projects and incorporate changes that make sense to you but alwayskeep lightness and simplicity at the top of your list. Don't get led down thepath of modernizing or beefing-up which is a recipe for a heavy airplane thatis sure to disappoint.--------L.V.WilliamsXCG, XCMR, ATPUSHPA, EAA, AMA, EPPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: George Abernathy
Okay, so this is sort of off-topic, but I'm trying to look at an aluminum tubethat would have approximately the same strength in tension and compression asold-timey 5/8" diameter, 22 ga. steel (presumably no more than 1049 mild steeland possibly 1018 if it was from the 1930s). Also curious to know what the weightdifference might be once I get a cross reference.Anybody have a handy-dandy table or chart that might give me an idea of what theold-timey steel tubing might have been capable of? I could do it the long wayby calculating the section modulus and all that, but surely there are tablesfrom old machine shop books?--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 20:23:21 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Thanks everybody for insight on the VW engine. I was just checking for my mechanicfriend who has some VW engines he wants to get rid of.I'm not exactly Mr. Goodwrench and the Continental C-85 sounds more in line withmy objectives:- fits in with the Pietenpol plans- common engine that I can get help with- can use 100LL AVGAS that is available at every airport that sells fuel.- like, Jeff, I want to be able to fly with two people on hot summer days.Thanks everybody!--------DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Terry; yes, those tables are of some use but I would have to calculate the sectionmoduli and all of that, to get a good cross-reference of an aluminum tubethat is equivalent to steel. Rainy day activity ;o) Thanks.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: "womenfly2"
Hi Oscar,Glad the videos inspired you. Other people's videos inspire me, too.Jeff>>________________________________This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use ofthe intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privilegedinformation. If the reader of this message is not the intendedrecipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distributionor copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictlyprohibited.If you have received this message in error, please contactthe sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of theoriginal message (including attachments).________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
jarheadpilot82 wrote:> Edited: I would be curious to know how aluminum tubing compares with 1018 steel.You need to specify what "Alloy" of aluminum the tube is to do a comparison to1018 steel.A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage could be done ....would be an interesting exercise. Similar to an Airdrome plane construction.WF2--------Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "DonkDoug"
tools wrote:> Hey Bill,> > I'm having a bunch of folks over next weekend up near Chatt TN (20 to 24 Feb).Among them are a couple of guys who are building steel tube fuse Piets. You'rewelcome to come up, stay a couple days or whatever. I'll be working on gettingmy wood fuse Piet assembled (been down for repairs). We're planning onmaking some control horns, so if you've made yours, we could use the help!> > Bunch of other shop related stuff going on as well. > > Maybe some of the Carrollton gang might head up too, all are welcome.> > Ping me back channel if you're interested and need details!> > Mike Danford, 423 580 1383Hey MikeThat is a mighty generous offer, unfortunately I have commitments this weekend.I would like rain check on that one though.I will try to give you a ring next week.ThanksBillRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Hey Guys,I have been lurking on here for several years and have really enjoyed most of thediscussions, technical talk, tall-tales and so on. I never felt like I hadmuch to contribute so stayed quite until now. I think what will help you compare different sizes of aluminum tubing to steeltubing (and solid wood members of various species for that matter) in compressionand tension is a spreadsheet developed by Neal Willford that is posted onEAA's website. I have used it for years to get "ball park" numbers for some ofmy projects. I will attempt to attach the excel file but if it does not makethe trip it is easy enough to find on EAA's website search function.Thanks,Doug WrightStillwater, OKRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: "DonkDoug"
Oh, if you want rain, come friday! It's an annual event, so no worries. Tryingto add "fly in" as we go along. Also welcome to come see NX2RN anytime. Shouldbe back in the air soon, ride available then.Also welcome to come use any shop stuff about any time. We'll be in full swing Thurs and Fri as well. As for Barry and the gang, great! Look forward to seeing you then! Is anyoneflying? If so, there are a couple of fields. Wilson field is on the sectionaland is available. Not on the sectional is another field about 3 miles due westand is also available. I can get you phone numbers if you want to talk tothe field owners first, but I have already talked to them. I've been out of town the last couple of weeks, I'll check on my field tomorrowif there's a possibility. ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Oscar,It sounds like you found it. That spreadsheet is real handy. For example, youcan plug in the modulus of elasticity for the wood species one might be usingto determine that member's equivalent size in spruce. Neal wrote a bunch of these spreadsheets a number of years ago to perform variousfunctions - some structural, some for aerodynamics, and so on. Hope this helps with what you are doing,Doug WrightStillwater, OKRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
WF2 wrote->A "pop" riveted gusset plate aluminum tube Pietenpol fuselage>could be done .... would be an interesting exercise. Similar to>an Airdrome plane constructionWell, see, there's nothing new under the sun! Roger Mann's Ultra-Piet "RagWing"is exactly that, and it's been around a good while. Legal ultralight, performanceand dimensions actually quite close to the real Air Camper except thatthe Ultra-Piet is single place (by Part 103 definition). Most fly with air-cooled2-strokes. Plenty have been built and flown.http://rogermann.org/ragwing/designs/rw1/--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison

Original Posted By: glenschweizer(at)yahoo.com
Okay, just doing some what-ifs, not directly related to Pietenpols and certainlynot intended to start a "let's build an aluminum Piet!" discussion. I'm studyingan ultralight design that is in the old Flying & Glider manuals from the1930s, steel tube construction, and wondering what an aluminum tube equivalentmight be. The subject of my study is weight. As in, is there really a weightadvantage to using aluminum over steel?I'll take just one example that I plugged in to the Excel spreadsheet to compareone common steel tube size to aluminum. Although the old designs most likelyused mild steel, it's easy to compare 4130 to 6061 and get a rough approximation.For a 5/8" steel tube that is called out as 22 ga., I've used .028" wallthickness 4130 in an 18" length (perhaps a fuselage diagonal?) just for kicks.The critical value is compression... the strength in tension is several timesgreater than in compression. At any rate, to get an equivalent strength incompression, a 5/8" aluminum tube must have a wall thickness of .065. The weightdifference between the two members is .07 lb... a 26% weight savings. IfI knew the weight of a basically complete steel-tube fuselage (Jake? Are youout there? Have you weighed yours?)- I could guess at what the overall weightsavings might be for a fuselage. Probably only 3-4 lbs.-?--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
My wife and I are planning a trip to Indianapolis In. next weekend to visit herrelatives. Are there any piet builders there that might not mind if I took alook, and some pictures?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: steel to aluminum tube comparison