Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Jack
Sad news John, thoughts are with you...Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Jul 22, 2014, at 5:55 AM, "john francis" wrote:> > > A death in the family has cancelled my plans to attend. Bummer....you all havefun.> > --------> John Francis> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 124#427124> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bratfest IV Reminder

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Have not heard much chatter, hope message is getting out. A reminder to join us Friday at 11:30. Travel safe all! Details below.Piet friends, Susan and I are looking forward to hosting lunch at Brodhead Friday, July 25, 11:30 to 12:30. We will be located on the SE edge of the field by the white fence. http://www.eaa431.org/wp-content/upload ... iagram.jpg We will have a 100 brats, salad, chips and watermelon. When they are gone, the y are gone. Please bring a drink and chair. Look for the 45 foot brown and black Thor diesel. Looking forward to it, let's hope for great weather! We will be arriving Thursday departing Saturday AM. Jack & Susan Five One Five 490-5177 Sent from my iPad Jack Textor Sent from my iPadJack Textor________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 04:53:38 -0700

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Michael,Have you finished covering and painting? The fabric on the fuselage andtail will add considerable weight. It will be somewhat difficult to figurehow much that will weigh, but it should be possible to just add a weight (5gallon bucket full of sand) at a measured location and just subtract thatmoment out of your calculations to determine the actual weight and balanceof your unfinished airplane.I'm not sure what benefit a rough W&B will be since it is very difficult toanticipate the weight and cg of the fabric cover. Fabric and paint weigh alot. I was horrified to realize that the fabric and polyurethane paint onmine added nearly 75 lbs.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, VirginiaWishing I was on my way to Brodhead. Maybe next year! _____

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment

Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (No) Tail Weight & Balance

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (No) Tail Weight & Balance

Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
If you are experiencing "negative' weight at the tail, when the longerons are level(i.e. the plane wants to tip onto it's nose, rather than resting on threewheels), it sounds like maybe your axle is too far back.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: (No) Tail Weight & Balance

Original Posted By: Jack
Bill poses a great question.... but its still unclear to me what you mean whenyou say, "no tail weight."Does this mean, you have no scales with which to weigh the tail, or, as Bill states,is the plane balanced and no weight exists when the longerons are level?--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (No) Tail Weight & Balance

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
No pictures heh, hiding that beautiful paint job!Sent from my iPadJack Textor> On Jul 22, 2014, at 7:16 AM, Michael Perez wrote:> > Well, I am preparing my plane for a rough W&B...leveling, marking C/L locations and bulkhead locations on a floor reference, making measurements, etc. While the longerons are level, I need to strap the tail down. How do I figure W&B with, no tail weight? Using the formula CG=D+(RxL/W) Since R, tail wheel weight, is zero, I am left with D only, correct? That number, (D), minus the wing leading edge/datum distance equals C.G. location from wing L.E. (?)> > Should I concern myself with a negative tail weight? It is light, but I would not go as far as calling it a negative weight.> > Any guidance would be appreciated.> > > If God is your co-pilot, switch seats> Mike Perez> Karetaker Aero> First engine start complete!> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 11:21:37 -0700

Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
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________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 14:26:59 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bratfest IV Reminder

Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
Mike P.,If your gear and airframe is set up the same as Mike's then listen to what he hasto say. Now to start a little more head scratchin'... if your cabanes arevertical and you are indeed set up like Mike's, you're actually tail heavy. But, of course as you move your wing back you'll add some weight to that tail andlighten it up. Aerodynamically that is. Clear as mud, right. Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bratfest IV Reminder

Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Jack, I will be there with my family. My little guy Will looks forward to it every year. He has already asked about it!!GeneOn Jul 22, 2014, at 7:32 AM, Jack wrote:> Have not heard much chatter, hope message is getting out. A reminder to join us Friday at 11:30. Travel safe all! Details below.> Piet friends, Susan and I are looking forward to hosting lunch at Brodhead Friday, July 25, 11:30 to 12:30. We will be located on the SE edge of the field by the white fence. http://www.eaa431.org/wp-content/upload ... iagram.jpg We will have a 100 brats, salad, chips and watermelon. When they are gone, the y are gone. Please bring a drink and chair. Look for the 45 foot brown and black Thor diesel. Looking forward to it, let's hope for great weather! We will be arriving Thursday departing Saturday AM. Jack & Susan Five One Five 490-5177 Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > > > Sent from my iPad> Jack Textor> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
The wise man frometh the East hath spoken truth about thy wing movements! The owner/operator of NX899DE, the straight-shooting, Don Emch, all-American barnstormer,ride giver, nice guy, snow-ski experienced Pietenpol pilot from Ohio is correcteth.My Kentucky windage (based on a lot of facts and measurements over the years of pilot weight vs. wing shift position) predicts that Mike Perez should position his wing at 3" aftof vertical. If Mike was 200 pounds like I am I would advise him to move the wing back to the 4" aft of vertical position but since Mike weighs less he doesn't need to movehis wing back as far as I did. The only time I've seen cabanes vertical are on Ford Piets with that heavy engine up front or the super-long nosed Piets with 65 Continentals on them.Mike C.Ohio________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: weight and balance

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
So, how long does my new mount need to be to keep my cabanas vertical??GeneOn Jul 22, 2014, at 4:59 PM, "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]" wrote:> The wise man frometh the East hath spoken truth about thy wing movements! The owner/operator of NX899DE, the straight-shooting, Don Emch, all-American barnstormer,> ride giver, nice guy, snow-ski experienced Pietenpol pilot from Ohio is correcteth. > > My Kentucky windage (based on a lot of facts and measurements over the years of pilot weight vs. wing shift position) predicts that Mike Perez should position his wing at 3=9D aft> of vertical. If Mike was 200 pounds like I am I would advise him to move the wing back to the 4=9D aft of vertical position but since Mike weighs less he doesn=99t need to move> his wing back as far as I did. The only time I=99ve seen cabanes vertical are on Ford Piets with that heavy engine up front or the super-long nosed Piets with 65 Continentals on them.> > Mike C.> Ohio> > > > > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
It'll look like an Anteater.Serously, if you send me your W&B data I can calculate where the engine's cgneeds to be . But my guess is it'll be one of those "Long Nose" Pietenpols.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____

Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Great guys!Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 22, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Jack wrote:> > Have not heard much chatter, hope message is getting out. A reminder to join us Friday at 11:30. Travel safe all! Details below.> Piet friends, Susan and I are looking forward to hosting lunch at Brodhead Friday, July 25, 11:30 to 12:30. We will be located on the SE edge of the field by the white fence. http://www.eaa431.org/wp-content/upload ... iagram.jpg We will have a 100 brats, salad, chips and watermelon. When they are gone, the y are gone. Please bring a drink and chair. Look for the 45 foot brown and black Thor diesel. Looking forward to it, let's hope for great weather! We will be arriving Thursday departing Saturday AM. Jack & Susan Five One Five 490-5177 Sent from my iPad Jack Textor > > > Sent from my iPad> Jack Textor> > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: weight and balance

Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners, LLC]"
Mike Cuy:Friendly suggestion here: Resist giving Mike P. advice. He would be much betteroff with a real calculation than your 'Kentucky' guess. Your comments about Mikesplane being just like yours don't hold water for two reasons. One you havenot posted your exact W&B numbers and neither has Mike P. Maybe if mike sawyour numbers, he would shoot for something different. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Second, Mike P. has a different airfoil than you do We are just about to do someactual measurements on this issue, for you to advise Mike to Make his Cabanesa specific length, a week before we have more data is poor advice. Your adviceis based on one report you read from Don's plane. Contrast this with the factthat unlike you, I have seen Don's plane in person, I have further detail rigginginfo on it, W&B data, and I did the W&B project. Maybe I am in a much betterposition to say that Mike P. could wait for a bit more data Honestly, youhave no idea on how Mike Ps W&B even looks compard to Don's or what effect thismight have on incidence. Until next week I don't either, but I am not theone telling Mike Ps how to build his cabanes today either.-----------------------------------------------------------------------Mike, for being a guy who works for NASA, I would think that you of all builderswould understand that making a blanket statement about all cabanes on a verydiverse group of planes based solely on a sample size of one plane (Don's) isvery poor science. How good do you think the W&B project would have been if youjust found one guy who said he liked the way he plane flew, weighed it, andthen told every other builder from then on to make his plane just like that?---------------------------------------------------------Mike Cuy, if you have a PPL, than you have to know how to do a W&B calculation.Can you explain why you are reluctant to just get Mike Ps number and do thisfor him? I did this for Chris Rusch last week, and if you will not do it for MikeP, I will be glad to. Ryan and I did the whole W&B project just so that peoplewhold keep using 'Kentucky' guesses, they could just calculate things exactly--------------------------------------------Mike P. If Mike Cuy can't/won't do it for you, send me the numbers. Level the fuselage,and put a 5 pound weight on the horizontal stabilizer in line with thetail wheeel axle. When you do the calculation, mathmaticaly remove this asa tear weight. If you don't know how to do this, just send me the raw numbers,I will use it to show everyone how this is done-------------------------------------------------------Right off the bat, I am going to say that any Piet that has the axle so far backthat it has no tail weight in level position, has a very good change of endingup on its back if it has brakes. Mike P, your plane may not have this issue,because until we see the numbers, we don't know where your wing should be. Ifyou have not gotten the W&B articles from Doc, I highly suggest that you doso. If you ignore this resource in favor of the 'Kentucky' method, you may notlike the results, and it is my guess that none of the people who are offeringoff the cuff advice will show up at your house and help you rebuild your plane.---------------------------------------------------------------------Mike Cuy, You are a great guy in many respects and you have done a lot to promotePietenpols and this is much appreciated, but I am politely suggesting thatoffering 'Kentucky' information detracts from your contribution to Pietenpols.Your efforts to promote the design have been sterling, why tarnish this withpoor advice when anyone with PPL level skills and our W&B articles could do anexact calculation for Mike P?-----------------------------------------------------------------Mike Cuy, if you would really like to show me that your own plane is an excellentenough example for Mike P to be following with confidence, the very simplething for you to do is make your next post to this list your real weight and balancethat you fly your own plane with. If you are flying at 19, 19.5 or 20",perhaps mike should know this and not directly copy your plane and just hopeit turns out well.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Abby and I really hoped to come but we'll be missing it this year. Have fun andenjoy the beautiful weather.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:53:04 -0500

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Hello good Piet-ple,Well I routed the pockets in my replacement spars a couple days ago. What I didn'tnotice was that the router bit, although very tight, was slipping slightlyin the collet which was making each pass slightly deeper...! By the time I noticedthis, my pockets were about .345" deep. Well that only leaves a web thicknessof .31" and it's supposed to be .50"...!So enjoy a couple photos of my beautiful, but now useless spar(s)....!!!I purchased a new Porter-Cable router (it's really nice) and also placed the orderyesterday with Aircraft Spruce for new spar blanks. I've really got this spar thing figured out so when the new planks arrive I shouldbe able to cut and rout them without any trouble - he said carefully...!Jake--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/spar ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Jake,All I can say is, "Ouch!" But thanks for sharing with us the downs as well as theups. It may help the next guy NOT make that mistake.You do such great work, though, the next ones are going to be awesome!--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Wall art is an important part of every hangar!Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Jack
They may make nice shelves.....--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Will miss you!Sent from my iPhone> On Jul 23, 2014, at 12:27 PM, "curtdm(at)gmail.com" wrote:> > > Abby and I really hoped to come but we'll be missing it this year. Have funand enjoy the beautiful weather.> > --------> Curt Merdan> Flower Mound, TX> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 212#427212> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!

Original Posted By: "aerocarjake"
Can someone else use the material for cap strips or otherwise? Thinking out loud.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!

Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
They are $156 each. I bought three - one "extra" to avert screwing up anotherone - in a karma sort of way. It's kinda like bringing an umbrella so it doesn'train. I know if I buy three I will only use two that I actually need...! I can always use the remaining spruce some day.--------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:15:50 -0500

Original Posted By: jim hyde
Sue and I will be there, just to insure that nothing goes to waste, of course...DaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 17:22:49 -0700

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Does anyone have Larry William's cell number? I seem to have an old one andI wanted to see if we could hook up at Poplar Grove tomorrow to fly intogether.Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: weight and balance

Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Geez!!! Where's the friggin' delete button!!--------L.V.WilliamsXCG, XCMR, ATPUSHPA, EAA, AMA, EPPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Larry,Just to the right of the main part of the keyboard, just below the insert key onmost keyboards. If you don't like the discussion, that is where you will findit.If you use it, no need to broadcast it as it would defeat the purpose of the delete,don't you think?--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: phone # for Larry W

Original Posted By: "tools"
Douwe,I dont have Larry's number, but if you want Mike Danford's contact info, emailme or call me. You have my number. I think that he may be flying in tomorrow aswell. I am flying in on Friday - to Madison.I wish it were Brodhead.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GAUSMC, USMCR, ATPBVD DVD PDQ BBQRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!

Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
Not gonna fault ya for the new router, but be aware, it happens with them as well.Things that will help. SQUEAKY CLEAN AND DRY shank and collet (new bits sometimeshave a light coat of oil to prevent rust). Nice and tight. Several shallowpasses reduce the forces that cause this, rather than one deep pass. ANYSIGNS of ridges between passes are cause for alarm, stop and double check.NICE SHARP bit also.VERY sorry to hear this happened to you. The spars are still usable for some longfuse pieces... I've had it happen quite a bit over the years, but thankfullynot on something so expensive.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!

Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
It doesn't only happen to spars.... Almost 30 years ago, while managing a smalljob shop machine shop, the bosses son-in-law (Yup, one of those!), forgot tofully tighten the end mill he was using.The result was an 11 + inch groove in the table of a brand new Bridgeport. Thekid was only about 24 or 25 at the time, and, because he was the owners son-in-law,I couldn't fire him. In truth, at that point, he needed a horse whipping,but that's another story, I suppose.So, learn from the mistake; at least your damage was limited to a $156 piece ofwood, not a brand new $13,500. Bridgeport.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "tools"
I might be late on this observation, but does that necessarily condemn the spars?? It would be legal to glue capstrips to a fairly thin web ( not sure I haveseen a min). Are we sure these dimensions are unacceptable??GeneOn Jul 23, 2014, at 1:25 PM, "aerocarjake" wrote:> > Hello good Piet-ple,> > Well I routed the pockets in my replacement spars a couple days ago. What I didn'tnotice was that the router bit, although very tight, was slipping slightlyin the collet which was making each pass slightly deeper...! By the time Inoticed this, my pockets were about .345" deep. Well that only leaves a web thicknessof .31" and it's supposed to be .50"...!> > So enjoy a couple photos of my beautiful, but now useless spar(s)....!!!> > I purchased a new Porter-Cable router (it's really nice) and also placed theorder yesterday with Aircraft Spruce for new spar blanks. > > I've really got this spar thing figured out so when the new planks arrive I shouldbe able to cut and rout them without any trouble - he said carefully...!> > Jake> > --------> Jake Schultz - curator,> Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 218#427218> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/spar ... eb_139.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spar ... ig_914.jpg> http://forums.matronics.com//files/spar_pocket_568.jpg> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Huh? I never said don't do it Mike. I did say holes arealready being drilled and from a tensile strengthstandpoint this is just one more. Since you are capturing that long tube near themiddle, no matter what method you use, you arecreating two short tubes. You could actually cutthe tube in two, connect those together again withbolted fittings, tie in the jury strut and have the samething, only heavier. The whole reason for doing the jury strut thing is tocreate significantly greater resistance to bendingunder compression loads, like hard landings andstrong, sudden downdrafts. Each of those shortertubes has much, much greater resistance to bendingunder load.If there was only tension load and never anycompression loads, bending would not be anissue. In fact these massive struts would beredundant. Wire cables would work just fine.Look at your average sailboat.Clif ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "curtdm(at)gmail.com"
It's completely legal, it's experimental... but man, they're like FORTY PERCENTthinner...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bratfest IV Reminder

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
What a tease. Tonight I had to fly past C37 on the way to DSM. I can't go Brodhead for one if Jack's brats or see his project because my stay is too short.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ______Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 05:55:02 -0700

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Some data: The spars were 12 1/2 pounds each - before routing - and 8 1/2 poundsafterwords.... FOUR pounds lighter EACH spar. Since I routed "too deep" Ifigure to save perhaps THREE pounds per spar with the final ones.Yes, I considered what repairs I could do to salvage the spars, but in the enddecided to simply "do what's right" and make new good ones.If anyone wants to stop by Seattle for some free "cap strip or fuselage" raw material,they are more than welcome to them. (I have a welded steel fuselage andthe rest of the wings are essentially complete so using them as hangar/wallart is my current best option...!)In the end I got a REALLY nice new router out of this whole experience. It's MUCHquieter and variable speed... --------Jake Schultz - curator,Newport Way Air Museum (OK, it's just my home)Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 11:01:01 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: One good mistake deserves another - arghhhh...!