Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Donald A Mosher
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ford Engine weightsFritz, Have you thought about fabrics? My plane was covered before I boughtit. . but on every patch, and when I recovered the horizontal Stab, aftersome repairs. , I used a Dacron fabric that is "uncertified" and is 1.8oz.Not much weight savings, but every gram counts.I would look at Oratex precolored fabrics. Light and you save on painting.Regarding altitude compensation. I remember at least one builder added acouple of feet to his wings. Nothing radical, but I think a foot or so oneach wing.Also, I was almost executed for saying this on another list, but I don'tlearn. What about a nitrous Oxide system to compensate for densityaltitude? Not enough to blow a jug, but enough to make the engine think itis at sea level.Ducking and running.Steve DOn Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, FritzW wrote:>> My plans showed up last night! (Aircamper with supplement and 3 pice wing> and the Sky Scout plans). Hopefully we can weigh the Lambert and the Warner> today to see where were at.>> Like Scott mentioned I fly out of a pretty high altitude field that gets> very hot in the summer, 9,000' density altitude is pretty common. So> keeping it light is important.>> ...and before I get a bunch of flack for committing the heresy of looking> for opportunities to shed a few pounds on my high DA Pietenpol. I'm not a> complete neophyte. If I build this airplane, It'll be my 6th homebuilt (two> in the hangar, one just on the gear, one one the building table and one> still on the drawing board)>> --------> I=C4=93sous Christos, Theou Yios, S=C5=8Dt=C4=93r>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ======>>-- Blue Skies,Steve D________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 13:59:44 -0500Subject: Pietenpol-List: What's up Doc?

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Oops, sorry guys, I got drool all over these pictures. Fritz, there is or should be a Suburu powered Piet at Socorro airport. It has beenthere since the early 90's. It flies a lot. It could be worth the trip upthere just to look at it.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: What's up Doc?

Original Posted By: Amsafetyc
There was one up there somewhere around Socorro that, I thought, had a Pinto enginein it. ...maybe it was a Sube.I'm down in Las Cruces, we consider Socorro to be southern Canada --------Isous Christos, Theou Yios, StrRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What's up Doc?

Original Posted By: Charles Burkholder
Glad to see you're still involved, Doc...Maybe I'm out of the loop on things; did something happen with Andrew Pietenpol? Last I knew he was continuing the family's sale of plans at http://www.pietenpolaircraftcompany.com...Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 18:27:25 -0500

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Charles,I have the springs on my gear. I bought a project and finished it. The originalsprings were way too soft. I contacted Wag Aero who sells a replacement springoption for the Cub bungees. They couldn't sell me the springs but gave me anumber to call. I ordered the springs and they were a direct bolt on replacement.They seemed too strong but after flying with them they are just right.Good luck,JackModel a fordWire wheelsPhase 1Sent from my iPad> On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:27 PM, Charles Burkholder wrote:> > > Hi folks.> I am building the steel split axle landing gear for my piet. The main frame isfabricated and tack welded and I am ready to fabricate and install the suspensionsystem. Originally I went for the steel coil spring system for ease of constructionand 'weld and forget' rather then having to install and replace bungees.Having ordered and received the springs I want to hear peoples input onusing them for a Piet. They seem heavy and too hard-springed for a light aircraftfor a Piet but maybe that is not the case? Any input on them versus bungeeswould be appreciated.> Thanks> Charles Burkholder> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bungee vs. Coil Spring

Original Posted By: "Jeff Boatright"
Maybe this will help answer some of your questions.http://flycorvair.net/2012/10/27/new-di ... ----Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bungee vs. Coil Spring

Original Posted By: Brian Kenney
My Piet had bungees originally. They wore out, I had trouble replacing them. Isubstituted springs. Better in every way. I'd never go back to bungees. HTH andYMMV.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bungee vs. Coil Spring

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Charles your question is a typical one. What compromise is the best? I have a straightaxle so bungees are the only practical choice. They work very well. Ifyou want to absorb energy then rubber bands are much better per lb of materialthan steel. In a split gear the amount of energy that can be absorbed is limitedby the volume of spring material in the space and therefore both are inadequateto do the job. Therefore the tires play an important role because youcould argue that the gear is semi-rigit. Solid gear works fine with good pilotingskills so semi-solid work even better. If you want to compare steel springshave a look at how big they are on an Aeronca champ and they have a shock aswell. The choice is yours as there is no correct answer and no incorrect answer.Sent from my iPad> On Sep 10, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Charles Burkholder wrote:> > Hi folks.> I am building the steel split axle landing gear for my piet. The main frame isfabricated and tack welded and I am ready to fabricate and install the suspensionsystem. Originally I went for the steel coil spring system for ease of constructionand 'weld and forget' rather then having to install and replace bungees.Having ordered and received the springs I want to hear peoples input onusing them for a Piet. They seem heavy and too hard-springed for a light aircraftfor a Piet but maybe that is not the case? Any input on them versus bungeeswould be appreciated.> Thanks> Charles Burkholder________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?

Original Posted By: "William Wynne"
Clif: thank you for the book recommendations. I've always wanted to learn howto sail and "The Craft of Sail" sounds like a wonderful addition to my readingstack for this fall and winter! I'll nestle it in between Hornblower and Aubrey& Maturin books ;o)--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The 'Piet Builder's Bible' Project - Want In?

Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Jim,You have a noble idea, but there are some practical limitations that might evenbe applied to just the building of your own plane. I write a lot, but don't knowthe 'practical limitations' of your craft, publishing. My craft is buildingplanes so some thoughts here;Muir's book on VW's that Oz mentions is a master work, and it educates, but it'ssuccess is that Muir focused the procedures on single methods he knew to work.It truly is a 'bible' in the sense that most religious texts describe a singlepath to God. I have found that people new to a mechanical experience are much more likely toexperience success if they are simply presented the logic behind a proven example,and step by step instructions for that specific example, rather than a lotof optional routes that may all work but not be compatible with each other.Because you are in publishing, you understand the role of editor, and if youare yet to complete a plane, you might not be the strongest 'editor' Ideally lets say you had just ten people as contributors, who had each built andflown their own very good Piet 500 hours as contributors. Then you broke thebuilding task into 100 elements, and cataloged how each of the ten elected todo the 100 tasks. Sounds like a winner, but here is the rub: A new green guypicks the one of ten paths he likes best for each of the 100 tasks, but he doesn'thave the experience to understand that even if his combination bolts together,there is a strong chance that it will work poorly, because not all permutationsmade of good ideas work together.BTW, people are essentially doing this right now, most without understanding thislimitation. It is for this reason that I advise new guys to pick one well provenPiet, and build their own close copy of it. New guys make the mistake ofthinking this means copying how a plane looks. What I mean is picking a mechanicallayout, ie a fuselage length, power plant, a CG pattern, fuel system, landinggear, and duplicating it mechanically. The external cosmetic looks, withinreason, are not important to how the plane flies or if it is mechanicallysound. This is essentially the approach we have over on our "Piet-vair" group. We have100+ guys building planes that will all probably look different, but they areall patterned after a handful of mechanically proven paths. This starts earlyin the project, as we have in individual W&B page for each builder, not as somethingdone later as a rude awakening after the build, but as an integrated partof the build itself, where it does the most good, as prevention of problems.The task of looking after builders is infinitely simpler if they are all usingthe same power plant, and critically, they are in the discussion, so otherbuilders read their responses to understand what they don't yet follow. Guyslurking on websites or reading books are one way communications without the feedbackloop that is a vital part of teaching people and learning. They often don'thave experienced people to say 'those are good ideas, but they don't worktogether well.'http://flycorvair.net/2015/09/06/zen-va ... esource/PS, No one in my family can dance, but Dad is a '49 graduate of "Canoe U", anddamn it, we were all going to know how to sail well. I have also built a goodnumber of boats from 8' to 30'. Here is an important difference on Planes vs Boats:1) On the water, the 'defecation hits the rotary oscillator' slower thanit does in the sky. 2) Almost any collection of buoyant material will float,even when it will not sail at all. A collection of bad plane ideas has no 'float'analogy. 3) I have had to contemplate using both life jackets and parachutes,and at that moment, I didn't have to think of how little training I had inusing my life jacket, I knew it would 'deploy' automatically at the surface..ww.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Darrel Jones
Gary,Can you read that indicator from the cockpit? Looks like it is on backwards? I bought one of those stupid Brodhead this summer.Nice,Ray Krause, up the road a little.Sent from my iPad> On Sep 20, 2015, at 8:27 AM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > > > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Pietenpol-List: What's up Doc?

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Doc,If you would like plans for the Pfeifer Sport Piet-like plane I can send them as PDFs by email. I'm nearing retirement age and hope to get it back in the air.Darrel JonesN154JP________________________________________________________________________________