Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
Full throw of the stick (left/right) can be greatly limited by the size (fatness) of the pilots legs and the position of the stick (forward/back). I want to measure to see how much aileron movement I get with various positions of the stick. But I'm sure, with so many Piets flying with the same setup, it will be adequate. Full aileron deflection may never be needed.Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Feb 8, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Charles N. Campbell wrote:> > I remember a post of a few years ago where one Piet owner put small blocks of wood on the floor (under the ends of the aileron activator) to limit the travel of the ailerons. He(she) complained that the sound the ailerons made hitting the wing at full down deflection bothered her(him). (I have forgotten whether it was a male of female who made the entry.) So I gather from that post that the aileron travel is sufficient at full throw of the stick. Chuck> >> On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 7:20 AM, tonyp51qa wrote:>> >> I have the torque tube, control sticks and the rudder bar installed. I am concerned with the movement of my {PILOTS} stick fore and aft {elevator}. And especially left and right{ailerons}. I need to know the degree of deflection of elevator in degrees [up and down]. I also need to know how much stick deflection is needed to move my ailerons. Since my Piet is built per plans, the control rod that ties the two sticks together has caused a lesser movement going to the left.{this control rod hits the seat back "V" cutout} This limits the stick deflection going fully to the left}. My control stick also hits the seat back at 24 degrees and goes back 30 plus degrees. At present I do not have any cables installed yet. Thank You!>> >> Tony>> >> -------->> Tony Crawford>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 656#452656>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==========>> br> fts!)>> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.>> ==========>> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ==========>> FORUMS ->> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com>> ==========>> b Site ->> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> ==========> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "bdewenter"
Folks, you will not find better, nicer, or more Pietenpol-y people than Kevin andShelley, hosts of this event. I highly recommend this upcoming Corvair College(with or without 'corviar on crackers') if you have any leanings towardsbuilding a Piet, building a Corvair to power a Piet, or building your own enginefor any kind of a homebuilt aircraft. The experience will be one that youwill remember whether you ever build an engine or airplane or not.Highly recommended.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
Page 192 of the manual states AN6-36 and in the instructions for the motor mountstate AN6-36--------Bob 'Early Builder' DewenterDayton OHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "tools"
Thanks Bob. The plans don't mention (or I missed it) what type steel. Do buildersuse 4130, something else, or steel bought locally (like Tractor Supply)?I have a metal cutting band saw and I can drill and ream holes. The one companyfor water jet is priceywill see about it when the time comes.I found a great page on the website "Pete's Pietenpol" that listed in detail themetal parts required. I'll use that to make a shopping list.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
Yep, you want 4130 for everything. I think the plans mention1020 or something,so 4130 isn't "necessary", but is widely accepted as the way to go.If you have a metal cutting contour saw, vertical, water jetting isn't necessary,just a matter of time vs money. With nothing but a hacksaw... Ya, probablya little higher on the priority list! The only real advice I have to add is to really consider the holes. If a holeis to be matched up with another part, sometimes wise to drill both at once, oruse one part to locate the matching hole. It's possible you will save somefrustration by trying your best to visualize those sorts of situations and planningahead.Generally, it's a pretty straight forward job! ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "tools"
Thanks Tools! Previous to this project, I made all the brackets for a Hatz Classicand doubled the parts for drilling/reaming. After all that, realized I'd ratherhave a plane in a few years instead of 12 or moreso Hatz will be my retirementproject.OK, I'll get more 4130. Thanks again!--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
I didn't build my Piet, but have done extensive work on it. I'm now working on(extensive repairs) a starduster too... WOW! Probably ten times the parts? Practically ALL of them more complicated than anything on a Piet! I definitelysee where you're coming from!ToolsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "Charles N. Campbell"
John;Many people have mentioned this over the years but I'll repeat it: some of themetal fittings on the Air Camper can benefit by being made a little bit longerand you would do well to study photos (Westcoastpiet is a great place to seelots of photos). I'll give you two quick examples. First, the wing lift strutattach fittings on the wing spars, where they protrude out the bottom of thewing, end up with the strut mounting holes so close to the fabric that you can'tget a ratchet or a box-end ratcheting wrench on them. Tightening the boltsbecomes a flat-by-flat exercise using two open-end wrenches. Lengthening thefittings just a little bit would really help. Next, down at the landing gear/liftstrut attach fittings at the bottom of the fuselage, the lift struts aretypically attached to the fittings using adjustable fork ends. The bolt thatholds the fork end to the attach fitting is a stubby AN5- or -6 bolt (I don'tremember which), and it has to go in at an angle. If you build everything perplans, it's very difficult to insert that bolt as it should be (with the headup) because the bolt contacts the lower longeron and fabric.If you don't have Mike Cuy's excellent build-and-fly video, by all means get acopy! Mike does a very thorough walk-around of his airplane and points out someof the spots where the fittings should be made a little longer to make installationof the hardware less of a pain. The video is great rainy day viewing,too.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2016 14:47:28 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "wheelharp"
I tried to get a copy of Mike Cuy's video a couple of years ago, but he wasn'tmaking them any more. If anyone has a copy they would send/sell to me, pleaselet me know. I'd still like to watch it.LorenzoRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "Pocono John"
I'd like to see it too....maybe if Mike doesn't want to mess with making them,he could allow someone to make copies and send him the money for them. What wouldbe really cool is a digital download.--------Jon JonesIronton, MORead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "Donald Lane"
Thank you Oscar! I'll remember what you wrote and add it to my notes. As far asthe Mike Cuy video, I'll have to search for that. As far as photos, I've beencompiling photos from all over as they help. I'm making sure to upload plentyof photos to my own site not only to document it, but maybe the photos will helpothers. Thanks again!--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Charles N. Campbell
You'll be in good company. As in F86 Saber. ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Charles N. Campbell"
I put the bolts in the bottom strut fitting upside down and just used castellated nuts and cotter pins, I'm pretty sure the nuts won't come off!Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Feb 11, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Charles N. Campbell wrote:> > Now you tell me. Fooey on it. I'll just run the bolts upside down. The nuts are not coming off anyway! C> >> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 11:23 AM, taildrags wrote:>> >> John;>> >> Many people have mentioned this over the years but I'll repeat it: some of the metal fittings on the Air Camper can benefit by being made a little bit longer and you would do well to study photos (Westcoastpiet is a great place to see lots of photos). I'll give you two quick examples. First, the wing lift strut attach fittings on the wing spars, where they protrude out the bottom of the wing, end up with the strut mounting holes so close to the fabric that you can't get a ratchet or a box-end ratcheting wrench on them. Tightening the bolts becomes a flat-by-flat exercise using two open-end wrenches. Lengthening the fittings just a little bit would really help. Next, down at the landing gear/lift strut attach fittings at the bottom of the fuselage, the lift struts are typically attached to the fittings using adjustable fork ends. The bolt that holds the fork end to the attach fitting is a stubby AN5- or -6 bolt (I don't remember which), and it has to go in at an angle. !>> If you build everything per plans, it's very difficult to insert that bolt as it should be (with the head up) because the bolt contacts the lower longeron and fabric.>> >> If you don't have Mike Cuy's excellent build-and-fly video, by all means get a copy! Mike does a very thorough walk-around of his airplane and points out some of the spots where the fittings should be made a little longer to make installation of the hardware less of a pain. The video is great rainy day viewing, too.>> >> -------->> Oscar Zuniga>> Medford, OR>> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout">> A75 power>> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here:>> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 766#452766>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==========>> br> fts!)>> r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.>> ==========>> br> enpol-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> ==========>> FORUMS ->> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com>> ==========>> b Site ->> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution>> ==========> ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2016 14:29:29 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Ordering metal

Original Posted By: "aviken"
Preparing to weld up the six cabane struts. Will raise wing 2 for more cockpitclearance. With Continental A65 top of cabane struts is usually leaned aft4. I will be using Continental O-200 D (light sport) with starter, on long fuselageversion. This will be about 40 lbs heavier than A65. Any suggestionson how much of the aft lean to eliminate? Should cabanes be straight up withheavier engine (no clean back)? I will use third diagonal cabane strut angledto top motor mount on both sides to set angle of cabanes. I guess I can remakethose angled front struts after weight and balance performed. Any suggestionon starting point though? Please dont tell me to go to the search engine.Standing by Paul Siegel psiegel(at)fuse.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane strut angle with heavy engine

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Hi I am also dealing with a heavy engine / Jeep 134 / I decided to just buildthe cabines straight and hope it is in the ball park. if I have to I canre-do the angle after weight and balance.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane strut angle with heavy engine

Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
Okay, so please don't take any of this to be exact science and please don't substitutethis for a more careful analysis and certainly a careful W&B, and I knowthere are a lot of approximations and inaccuracies but it's just a simple littlestudy. 41CC's cabanes are canted so as to move the wing aft about 4" andmy engine is an A75, so it's the same as an A65 for weight.Basic empty weight of 41CC is 636 lbs and the empty CG is about 12" aft of thewing leading edge. If I take the 4" out and set the cabanes vertical, I've movedmost of the empty weight (not the wings though) 4" aft of the datum. Justto use round numbers, let's say the wings weigh 86 lbs so I've moved 550 lbsof empty weight 4" aft of the datum, creating a increased moment of 2200 lb-in.My oil is on a moment arm of about 26" forward of the datum (rounding the numbersto make them simple, and remembering that moment arms forward of the datumcreate a negative moment), so if I move the engine the same 4", I've reduced itsmoment arm to about 22" forward of the datum. For the aircraft to once againbalance, I would need to have an engine that's 100 lbs heavier than beforesince it would be acting on a moment arm of 22" to create an equal 2200 lb-into offset the shift in the aircraft's empty weight.If any of the above is close to accurate, a quickie rule of thumb might be thatfor my airplane, I could take out 1" of cabane offset for every 25 lbs of weightthat I add to the engine. From there, I can't help you because I have noidea what your O200 might weigh compared to my A65/75.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane strut angle with heavy engine

Original Posted By: "planes&bikes"
Here is what I would do-1. Don't guess or ASSUME a cabane angle is correct.2. Contact Doc Mosher and buy the W&B articles. Or borrow if you can't get him.3. Do a weight and balance spreadsheet. If you don't know how, have someone helpyou. 4. Download a copy of the FAA Weight and Balance Handbook. Google FAA-H-8083-1A.It is free to download. Read it.It doesn't matter if you lean 2 inches 4 inches or 6 inches if your gear placementis wrong. That is key.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Cabane strut angle with heavy engine