Original Posted By: Brent Reed
Subject: Pietenpol-List: on nails and staples -Reply>I agree with the nails and the size of the dimensioned material.>For holding the nails I used a pair of 79 cent tweezers. They worked>great. CAUTION: Do not borrow your wife's tweezers and then try to>give them back covered with cured Aerolite. She won't appreciate it.>I used a 16 oz hammer, worked just fine. I even had my 7 year old>daughter pounding nails after I started them.>On a related note about ribs, I found that boiling the cap strip materialfor>20 minutes would soften them up sufficiently to put into the jig. Boiling>longer than 20 minutes softens them up too much and they tend to kink>when being bent.>>Greg C.>>>>> Steve Eldredge 12/02/97 11:00am >>>>My two bits.>>I nailed all my ribs. Ribs were 1/2 x 1/4. I'd use the same dementions>again I were to do another. Ribs weighted about 8-9 oz each finished if>I remember right. With a finished weight just over 600lbs while using>Doug Fir throughout, It isn't worth the trouble trying to squeeze out a>pound of wood from the ribs IMHO. Many other places are better>canidates for weight reduction. (Spars for example: I saved 4 lbs per>spar ((16LBS!!!)) for the wing by routing.) I used aircraft nails,>which by the way are brass plated, cement coated, steel nails. They>don't rust and *don't* work out. Just try pulling one and you will see>what I mean. They are very small however (20gauge) and I can't hold>them. I devised my system thusly. I went to Sears and bought the best>pair of small needle nose pliers I could find ( ones with the grip teeth>that lined up, and a spring return) and then used them to hold the nails>while I drove them with a 5oz tack hammer. Cheap and worked great.>The>only faster way would be if you had a very light duty staple/ or nail>gun. I looked (briefly) and couldn't find one that would handle such>light work. Besides I was on a budget. After driving nearly 200 nails>per rib, pulling them didn't seem realistic especially when you think>that 1 pound of 20gauge 3/8" nails is over 9000 nails! I'll take the>extra peace of mind of having 12 - 16 nails per cluster thank you.>Another advantage nailing has over staples is splitting. I tried>stapling on one rib and found the my gun excerted too much force and>the>staples would split my wood. With a hammer you can varry the power>with>each blow.>>If anyone finds a very light duty, variable pressure staple/nail/brad>gun let me know. It would speed things up if you can afford to swallow>the investment cost.>>Stevee>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: on nails and staples -Reply
Pietenpol-List: on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
Subject: Pietenpol-List: on nails and staples -Reply>I agree with the nails and the size of the dimensioned material.>For holding the nails I used a pair of 79 cent tweezers. They worked>great. CAUTION: Do not borrow your wife's tweezers and then try to>give them back covered with cured Aerolite. She won't appreciate it.>I used a 16 oz hammer, worked just fine. I even had my 7 year old>daughter pounding nails after I started them.>On a related note about ribs, I found that boiling the cap strip materialfor>20 minutes would soften them up sufficiently to put into the jig. Boiling>longer than 20 minutes softens them up too much and they tend to kink>when being bent.>>Greg C.>>>>> Steve Eldredge 12/02/97 11:00am >>>>My two bits.>>I nailed all my ribs. Ribs were 1/2 x 1/4. I'd use the same dementions>again I were to do another. Ribs weighted about 8-9 oz each finished if>I remember right. With a finished weight just over 600lbs while using>Doug Fir throughout, It isn't worth the trouble trying to squeeze out a>pound of wood from the ribs IMHO. Many other places are better>canidates for weight reduction. (Spars for example: I saved 4 lbs per>spar ((16LBS!!!)) for the wing by routing.) I used aircraft nails,>which by the way are brass plated, cement coated, steel nails. They>don't rust and *don't* work out. Just try pulling one and you will see>what I mean. They are very small however (20gauge) and I can't hold>them. I devised my system thusly. I went to Sears and bought the best>pair of small needle nose pliers I could find ( ones with the grip teeth>that lined up, and a spring return) and then used them to hold the nails>while I drove them with a 5oz tack hammer. Cheap and worked great.>The>only faster way would be if you had a very light duty staple/ or nail>gun. I looked (briefly) and couldn't find one that would handle such>light work. Besides I was on a budget. After driving nearly 200 nails>per rib, pulling them didn't seem realistic especially when you think>that 1 pound of 20gauge 3/8" nails is over 9000 nails! I'll take the>extra peace of mind of having 12 - 16 nails per cluster thank you.>Another advantage nailing has over staples is splitting. I tried>stapling on one rib and found the my gun excerted too much force and>the>staples would split my wood. With a hammer you can varry the power>with>each blow.>>If anyone finds a very light duty, variable pressure staple/nail/brad>gun let me know. It would speed things up if you can afford to swallow>the investment cost.>>Stevee>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: on nails and staples -Reply>I agree with the nails and the size of the dimensioned material.>For holding the nails I used a pair of 79 cent tweezers. They worked>great. CAUTION: Do not borrow your wife's tweezers and then try to>give them back covered with cured Aerolite. She won't appreciate it.>I used a 16 oz hammer, worked just fine. I even had my 7 year old>daughter pounding nails after I started them.>On a related note about ribs, I found that boiling the cap strip materialfor>20 minutes would soften them up sufficiently to put into the jig. Boiling>longer than 20 minutes softens them up too much and they tend to kink>when being bent.>>Greg C.>>>>> Steve Eldredge 12/02/97 11:00am >>>>My two bits.>>I nailed all my ribs. Ribs were 1/2 x 1/4. I'd use the same dementions>again I were to do another. Ribs weighted about 8-9 oz each finished if>I remember right. With a finished weight just over 600lbs while using>Doug Fir throughout, It isn't worth the trouble trying to squeeze out a>pound of wood from the ribs IMHO. Many other places are better>canidates for weight reduction. (Spars for example: I saved 4 lbs per>spar ((16LBS!!!)) for the wing by routing.) I used aircraft nails,>which by the way are brass plated, cement coated, steel nails. They>don't rust and *don't* work out. Just try pulling one and you will see>what I mean. They are very small however (20gauge) and I can't hold>them. I devised my system thusly. I went to Sears and bought the best>pair of small needle nose pliers I could find ( ones with the grip teeth>that lined up, and a spring return) and then used them to hold the nails>while I drove them with a 5oz tack hammer. Cheap and worked great.>The>only faster way would be if you had a very light duty staple/ or nail>gun. I looked (briefly) and couldn't find one that would handle such>light work. Besides I was on a budget. After driving nearly 200 nails>per rib, pulling them didn't seem realistic especially when you think>that 1 pound of 20gauge 3/8" nails is over 9000 nails! I'll take the>extra peace of mind of having 12 - 16 nails per cluster thank you.>Another advantage nailing has over staples is splitting. I tried>stapling on one rib and found the my gun excerted too much force and>the>staples would split my wood. With a hammer you can varry the power>with>each blow.>>If anyone finds a very light duty, variable pressure staple/nail/brad>gun let me know. It would speed things up if you can afford to swallow>the investment cost.>>Stevee>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
I agree with the nails and the size of the dimensioned material.For holding the nails I used a pair of 79 cent tweezers. They workedgreat. CAUTION: Do not borrow your wife's tweezers and then try togive them back covered with cured Aerolite. She won't appreciate it. I used a 16 oz hammer, worked just fine. I even had my 7 year olddaughter pounding nails after I started them. On a related note about ribs, I found that boiling the cap strip material for20 minutes would soften them up sufficiently to put into the jig. Boilinglonger than 20 minutes softens them up too much and they tend to kinkwhen being bent.Greg C.>>> Steve Eldredge 12/02/97 11:00am >>>My two bits.I nailed all my ribs. Ribs were 1/2 x 1/4. I'd use the same dementionsagain I were to do another. Ribs weighted about 8-9 oz each finished ifI remember right. With a finished weight just over 600lbs while usingDoug Fir throughout, It isn't worth the trouble trying to squeeze out apound of wood from the ribs IMHO. Many other places are bettercanidates for weight reduction. (Spars for example: I saved 4 lbs perspar ((16LBS!!!)) for the wing by routing.) I used aircraft nails,which by the way are brass plated, cement coated, steel nails. Theydon't rust and *don't* work out. Just try pulling one and you will seewhat I mean. They are very small however (20gauge) and I can't holdthem. I devised my system thusly. I went to Sears and bought the bestpair of small needle nose pliers I could find ( ones with the grip teeththat lined up, and a spring return) and then used them to hold the nailswhile I drove them with a 5oz tack hammer. Cheap and worked great. Theonly faster way would be if you had a very light duty staple/ or nailgun. I looked (briefly) and couldn't find one that would handle suchlight work. Besides I was on a budget. After driving nearly 200 nailsper rib, pulling them didn't seem realistic especially when you thinkthat 1 pound of 20gauge 3/8" nails is over 9000 nails! I'll take theextra peace of mind of having 12 - 16 nails per cluster thank you.Another advantage nailing has over staples is splitting. I triedstapling on one rib and found the my gun excerted too much force andthestaples would split my wood. With a hammer you can varry the powerwitheach blow.If anyone finds a very light duty, variable pressure staple/nail/bradgun let me know. It would speed things up if you can afford to swallowthe investment cost.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
I agree with the nails and the size of the dimensioned material.For holding the nails I used a pair of 79 cent tweezers. They workedgreat. CAUTION: Do not borrow your wife's tweezers and then try togive them back covered with cured Aerolite. She won't appreciate it. I used a 16 oz hammer, worked just fine. I even had my 7 year olddaughter pounding nails after I started them. On a related note about ribs, I found that boiling the cap strip material for20 minutes would soften them up sufficiently to put into the jig. Boilinglonger than 20 minutes softens them up too much and they tend to kinkwhen being bent.Greg C.>>> Steve Eldredge 12/02/97 11:00am >>>My two bits.I nailed all my ribs. Ribs were 1/2 x 1/4. I'd use the same dementionsagain I were to do another. Ribs weighted about 8-9 oz each finished ifI remember right. With a finished weight just over 600lbs while usingDoug Fir throughout, It isn't worth the trouble trying to squeeze out apound of wood from the ribs IMHO. Many other places are bettercanidates for weight reduction. (Spars for example: I saved 4 lbs perspar ((16LBS!!!)) for the wing by routing.) I used aircraft nails,which by the way are brass plated, cement coated, steel nails. Theydon't rust and *don't* work out. Just try pulling one and you will seewhat I mean. They are very small however (20gauge) and I can't holdthem. I devised my system thusly. I went to Sears and bought the bestpair of small needle nose pliers I could find ( ones with the grip teeththat lined up, and a spring return) and then used them to hold the nailswhile I drove them with a 5oz tack hammer. Cheap and worked great. Theonly faster way would be if you had a very light duty staple/ or nailgun. I looked (briefly) and couldn't find one that would handle suchlight work. Besides I was on a budget. After driving nearly 200 nailsper rib, pulling them didn't seem realistic especially when you thinkthat 1 pound of 20gauge 3/8" nails is over 9000 nails! I'll take theextra peace of mind of having 12 - 16 nails per cluster thank you.Another advantage nailing has over staples is splitting. I triedstapling on one rib and found the my gun excerted too much force andthestaples would split my wood. With a hammer you can varry the powerwitheach blow.If anyone finds a very light duty, variable pressure staple/nail/bradgun let me know. It would speed things up if you can afford to swallowthe investment cost.Stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By: Greg Cardinal
Greg,How did you set up to boil the cap strips?ThanksBrent Reed-----Original Message-----
Greg,How did you set up to boil the cap strips?ThanksBrent Reed-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By:> Brent Reed
I built a Team vertical stabilizer from a kit which they offer and it usedstaples for the gussetts and T-88 for the "glue". I removed the stapleswith a small screw driver. Worked OK for me. Because of this success Iwent on to build the empennage for the Piet, again using staples for thegussets and a small screw driver to remove them. I don't know that thestaples need to be pulled but I think they should be well varnished if theyare not.I am away from home as of this writing or I would give you the name of thestapler (which by the way was supplied with the Team kit). I will follow upwhen I get home.PS: The EAA book on working with aircraft wood says that nails add nothingto the strength of the finished product.
I built a Team vertical stabilizer from a kit which they offer and it usedstaples for the gussetts and T-88 for the "glue". I removed the stapleswith a small screw driver. Worked OK for me. Because of this success Iwent on to build the empennage for the Piet, again using staples for thegussets and a small screw driver to remove them. I don't know that thestaples need to be pulled but I think they should be well varnished if theyare not.I am away from home as of this writing or I would give you the name of thestapler (which by the way was supplied with the Team kit). I will follow upwhen I get home.PS: The EAA book on working with aircraft wood says that nails add nothingto the strength of the finished product.
Pietenpol-List: Re: on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By: GMalley
>Greg,>>How did you set up to boil the cap strips?>I found it easier to just drop them in a tub of water and let them soak overnight. If I was in a real hurry, I would use boiling water and it would only take about 20 minutes.Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com________________________________________________________________________________
>Greg,>>How did you set up to boil the cap strips?>I found it easier to just drop them in a tub of water and let them soak overnight. If I was in a real hurry, I would use boiling water and it would only take about 20 minutes.Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By: clawler
Dean Dayton wrote:> > >Greg,> >> >How did you set up to boil the cap strips?> >> I found it easier to just drop them in a tub of water and let them soak> overnight. If I was in a real hurry, I would use boiling water and it> would only take about 20 minutes.> I'm using a 4" diameter piece of PCV pipe about 36" long with a cap onone end. Fill about 2/3 with really hot water stick about 6-8 cap stripsin there for half an hour and then clamp in a bending jig overnight. Younow have enough top strips to keep you busy all week.Larry________________________________________________________________________________
Dean Dayton wrote:> > >Greg,> >> >How did you set up to boil the cap strips?> >> I found it easier to just drop them in a tub of water and let them soak> overnight. If I was in a real hurry, I would use boiling water and it> would only take about 20 minutes.> I'm using a 4" diameter piece of PCV pipe about 36" long with a cap onone end. Fill about 2/3 with really hot water stick about 6-8 cap stripsin there for half an hour and then clamp in a bending jig overnight. Younow have enough top strips to keep you busy all week.Larry________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By:> Greg Cardinal
> > Greg,> > How did you set up to boil the cap strips?> > Thanks> Brent Reed> -----Original Message-----
> > Greg,> > How did you set up to boil the cap strips?> > Thanks> Brent Reed> -----Original Message-----
> on nails and staples -Reply
Original Posted By: PHIL PECK
> Subject: on nails and staples -Reply> > > >I agree with the nails and the size of the dimensioned material.> >For holding the nails I used a pair of 79 cent tweezers. They worked> >great. CAUTION: Do not borrow your wife's tweezers and then try to> >give them back covered with cured Aerolite. She won't appreciate it.> >I used a 16 oz hammer, worked just fine. I even had my 7 year old> >daughter pounding nails after I started them.> >On a related note about ribs, I found that boiling the cap stripmaterial> for> >20 minutes would soften them up sufficiently to put into the jig.Boiling> >longer than 20 minutes softens them up too much and they tend to kink> >when being bent.> >> >Greg C.> >> >>>> Steve Eldredge 12/02/97 11:00am >>>> >My two bits.> >> >I nailed all my ribs. Ribs were 1/2 x 1/4. I'd use the same dementions> >again I were to do another. Ribs weighted about 8-9 oz each finished if> >I remember right. With a finished weight just over 600lbs while using> >Doug Fir throughout, It isn't worth the trouble trying to squeeze out a> >pound of wood from the ribs IMHO. Many other places are better> >canidates for weight reduction. (Spars for example: I saved 4 lbs per> >spar ((16LBS!!!)) for the wing by routing.) I used aircraft nails,> >which by the way are brass plated, cement coated, steel nails. They> >don't rust and *don't* work out. Just try pulling one and you will see> >what I mean. They are very small however (20gauge) and I can't hold> >them. I devised my system thusly. I went to Sears and bought the best> >pair of small needle nose pliers I could find ( ones with the grip teeth> >that lined up, and a spring return) and then used them to hold the nails> >while I drove them with a 5oz tack hammer. Cheap and worked great.> >The> >only faster way would be if you had a very light duty staple/ or nail> >gun. I looked (briefly) and couldn't find one that would handle such> >light work. Besides I was on a budget. After driving nearly 200 nails> >per rib, pulling them didn't seem realistic especially when you think> >that 1 pound of 20gauge 3/8" nails is over 9000 nails! I'll take the> >extra peace of mind of having 12 - 16 nails per cluster thank you.> >Another advantage nailing has over staples is splitting. I tried> >stapling on one rib and found the my gun excerted too much force and> >the> >staples would split my wood. With a hammer you can varry the power> >with> >each blow.> >> >If anyone finds a very light duty, variable pressure staple/nail/brad> >gun let me know. It would speed things up if you can afford to swallow> >the investment cost.> >> >Stevee> >> >> >________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: on nails and staples -Reply> > > >I agree with the nails and the size of the dimensioned material.> >For holding the nails I used a pair of 79 cent tweezers. They worked> >great. CAUTION: Do not borrow your wife's tweezers and then try to> >give them back covered with cured Aerolite. She won't appreciate it.> >I used a 16 oz hammer, worked just fine. I even had my 7 year old> >daughter pounding nails after I started them.> >On a related note about ribs, I found that boiling the cap stripmaterial> for> >20 minutes would soften them up sufficiently to put into the jig.Boiling> >longer than 20 minutes softens them up too much and they tend to kink> >when being bent.> >> >Greg C.> >> >>>> Steve Eldredge 12/02/97 11:00am >>>> >My two bits.> >> >I nailed all my ribs. Ribs were 1/2 x 1/4. I'd use the same dementions> >again I were to do another. Ribs weighted about 8-9 oz each finished if> >I remember right. With a finished weight just over 600lbs while using> >Doug Fir throughout, It isn't worth the trouble trying to squeeze out a> >pound of wood from the ribs IMHO. Many other places are better> >canidates for weight reduction. (Spars for example: I saved 4 lbs per> >spar ((16LBS!!!)) for the wing by routing.) I used aircraft nails,> >which by the way are brass plated, cement coated, steel nails. They> >don't rust and *don't* work out. Just try pulling one and you will see> >what I mean. They are very small however (20gauge) and I can't hold> >them. I devised my system thusly. I went to Sears and bought the best> >pair of small needle nose pliers I could find ( ones with the grip teeth> >that lined up, and a spring return) and then used them to hold the nails> >while I drove them with a 5oz tack hammer. Cheap and worked great.> >The> >only faster way would be if you had a very light duty staple/ or nail> >gun. I looked (briefly) and couldn't find one that would handle such> >light work. Besides I was on a budget. After driving nearly 200 nails> >per rib, pulling them didn't seem realistic especially when you think> >that 1 pound of 20gauge 3/8" nails is over 9000 nails! I'll take the> >extra peace of mind of having 12 - 16 nails per cluster thank you.> >Another advantage nailing has over staples is splitting. I tried> >stapling on one rib and found the my gun excerted too much force and> >the> >staples would split my wood. With a hammer you can varry the power> >with> >each blow.> >> >If anyone finds a very light duty, variable pressure staple/nail/brad> >gun let me know. It would speed things up if you can afford to swallow> >the investment cost.> >> >Stevee> >> >> >________________________________________________________________________________