Pietenpol-List: Re:More about Tools, etc...

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Pietenpol-List: Re:More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Domenico Bellissimo
PI>Richard,About tools: I have only built ribs so far but I found a sandingmachine to be veryuseful. I am referring to the type that has a 6" disk sander and afour inch widebelt sander. I also bought a couple of little X-acto hobby saws. Theyare good forcutting the ribstock . Another builder told me a mistake he had made.He did nothave a table saw, so went to a friend and cut half of all his ribstockone night, thenwent back a couple months later and they cut the rest of it. But theyweren'taccurate enough, and the second batch was just enough fatter that he hada terribletime getting it into the same jig. There are a couple solutions tothis, just keep it inmind.John Fay________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com (Richard DeCosta)
Sanding joints to be glued is bad practice. On the ribs you might get awaywith it since the gussett is carrying the load. If I ever hear of someonedoing it in a scarf joint however I am going to have to loose my cool. (orsomething)SteveeAron(at)hrn.bradley.edu wrote:> PI>Richard,>> About tools: I have only built ribs so far but I found a sanding> machine to be very> useful. I am referring to the type that has a 6" disk sander and a> four inch wide> belt sander. I also bought a couple of little X-acto hobby saws. They> are good for> cutting the ribstock . Another builder told me a mistake he had made.> He did not> have a table saw, so went to a friend and cut half of all his ribstock> one night, then> went back a couple months later and they cut the rest of it. But they> weren't> accurate enough, and the second batch was just enough fatter that he had> a terrible> time getting it into the same jig. There are a couple solutions to> this, just keep it in> mind.>> John Fay________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "McNarry, John"
> Sanding joints to be glued is bad practice. On the ribs you might get away> with it since the gussett is carrying the load. If I ever hear of someone> doing it in a scarf joint however I am going to have to loose my cool. (or> something)> > Stevee> > You *should* sand birch ply where it is to be glued. Thereis a glazed surface in the ply from the manufacturing process that needs to be removed.johnk________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
No offense Steve, but I've been told to sand, and sand each and every gluedsurface to remove the purported glaze and also rough it up a bit.It's good practice to use thinner to clean off the surface to remove sandingdust and sap afterwards though....My test coupons have never broke on the glue line when doing this.LarrySteve Eldredge wrote:> Sanding joints to be glued is bad practice. On the ribs you might get away> with it since the gussett is carrying the load. If I ever hear of someone> doing it in a scarf joint however I am going to have to loose my cool. (or> something)>> Stevee>> Aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu wrote:>> > PI>Richard,> >> > About tools: I have only built ribs so far but I found a sanding> > machine to be very> > useful. I am referring to the type that has a 6" disk sander and a> > four inch wide> > belt sander. I also bought a couple of little X-acto hobby saws. They> > are good for> > cutting the ribstock . Another builder told me a mistake he had made.> > He did not> > have a table saw, so went to a friend and cut half of all his ribstock> > one night, then> > went back a couple months later and they cut the rest of it. But they> > weren't> > accurate enough, and the second batch was just enough fatter that he had> > a terrible> > time getting it into the same jig. There are a couple solutions to> > this, just keep it in> > mind.> >> > John Fay________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ian Holland
>No offense Steve, but I've been told to sand, and sand each and every glued>surface to remove the purported glaze and also rough it up a bit.>It's good practice to use thinner to clean off the surface to remove sanding>dust and sap afterwards though....>My test coupons have never broke on the glue line when doing this.>>LarryWhat Larry says above is what I've read in Tony Bingelis' booksas well. (especially the birch plywood) I think the key here isto get the dust off afterward. None of my test pieces broke inthe wood and I sanded just about 95 % of all the glue joints inmy project. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> Larry L. Neal
The books that i have on the subject strongly recommend that no sanding bedone due to the concern of damaged fibres. The only accepted method forcleaning a joint is a planer type saw blade and a plane. However, myfeeling is that the effect can be helped by the type of glue that you use.With the old style cassein glues, it may be more critical than withAerolite or T-88. Mahogony ply also should be checked for glaze and'lightly sanded". If you need more information on the references that I dugout, let me know. I believe that you would be risking the certificationprocess in Canada if they knew you were sanding joints.Best regards,-=Ian=-
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> Steve Eldredge
Feel free to loose your cool at anytime(place silly icon here)Comercialscarfing machines CAN be !you guessed it, jigged sanding drums,plus a 10:1joint (MIN) allows for a large gluing surface. Any credible publication on wood joinery will likely list all thetechnical reasons why sanding is benifical,alot which have already beensubmitted to the group.Common sense should not be overlooked(RIGHT BERNIE) IN MY HONEST OPINION (dose not take all that long to type, dose it?)
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Barry Davis
>Sanding joints to be glued is bad practice. On the ribs you might get away>with it since the gussett is carrying the load. If I ever hear of someone>doing it in a scarf joint however I am going to have to loose my cool. (or>something)>>Stevee>>>Aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu wrote:>>> PI>Richard,>>>> About tools: I have only built ribs so far but I found a sanding>> machine to be very>> useful. I am referring to the type that has a 6" disk sander and a>> four inch wide>> belt sander. I also bought a couple of little X-acto hobby saws. They>> are good for>> cutting the ribstock . Another builder told me a mistake he had made.>> He did not>> have a table saw, so went to a friend and cut half of all his ribstock>> one night, then>> went back a couple months later and they cut the rest of it. But they>> weren't>> accurate enough, and the second batch was just enough fatter that he had>> a terrible>> time getting it into the same jig. There are a couple solutions to>> this, just keep it in>> mind.>>>> John Fay>>>Hey, I thought a scarf joint was made with a sanding drum on a tiltingtable? I know you are not supposed to sand a glue joint, but I'll have toresearch the scarf joint.Barry Davis________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
I just bought some from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Don't have their # off hand, tho. Anyone?> I'm having a little trouble finding T-88 in Seattle. Does anyone know where> I can get this stuff?> > Thanks,> > Brent Reed> > >With the old style cassein glues, it may be more critical than with> >Aerolite or T-88. Mahogony ply also should be checked for glaze and> >'lightly sanded> > Web Developer, http://www.autoeurope.comHomepage: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder__________ ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com (Richard DeCosta)
I'm having a little trouble finding T-88 in Seattle. Does anyone know whereI can get this stuff?Thanks,Brent Reed>With the old style cassein glues, it may be more critical than with>Aerolite or T-88. Mahogony ply also should be checked for glaze and>'lightly sanded________________________________________________________________________________
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Pietenpol-List: RE: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ian Holland
Wicks 800-221-9425SteveeOn Thursday, January 15, 1998 4:45 AM, Richard DeCosta [SMTP:rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com]wrote:> I just bought some from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Don't have their # off > hand, tho. Anyone?> > > I'm having a little trouble finding T-88 in Seattle. Does anyone know where> > I can get this stuff?> > > > Thanks,> > > > Brent Reed> > > > >With the old style cassein glues, it may be more critical than with> > >Aerolite or T-88. Mahogony ply also should be checked for glaze and> > >'lightly sanded> > > > > ----------------------------------------> Web Developer, http://www.autoeurope.com> Homepage: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder__________ ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By:> Steve Eldredge
Wicks aircraft Number is 618 654 7447I have been "listening" with interest to the discussion about the doorplans and am wondering if there is a way to convert an already builtfuselage. The wife is going thru the same issue on "how to get into thefront cockpit". Can it be retrofitted with ease, with difficulty, or noway". Any comments?
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Pietenpol-List: RE: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: PTNPOL
So how many pints, quarts, or gallons of epoxy should I need to do thisproject?Thanks for the phone numbers.Brent ReedKent, WA-----Original Message----->From: Steve Eldredge Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 8:55 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: RE: More about Tools, etc...>Wicks 800-221-9425>>Stevee>>On Thursday, January 15, 1998 4:45 AM, Richard DeCosta[SMTP:rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com] wrote:>> I just bought some from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Don't have their # off>> hand, tho. Anyone?>>>> > I'm having a little trouble finding T-88 in Seattle. Does anyone knowwhere>> > I can get this stuff?>> >>> > Thanks,>> >>> > Brent Reed>> >>> > >With the old style cassein glues, it may be more critical than with>> > >Aerolite or T-88. Mahogony ply also should be checked for glaze and>> > >'lightly sanded>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------->> Web Developer, http://www.autoeurope.com>> Homepage: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder>>________ ... __________
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Pietenpol-List: Re: Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Domenico Bellissimo
to:Brent Reed, You asked how many quarts, pints or gallons? You should only get enough to glue whichever part of the piet yourbuilding. The t-88 does have a shelf life and will go bad. You will be able to tell when it goes bad. The clear resin will get cloudy. Sincerely, -=Ron Lebfrom=-________________________________________________________________________________
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> Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
> > No offense Steve, but I've been told to sand, and sand each and everyglued> surface to remove the purported glaze and also rough it up a bit.> It's good practice to use thinner to clean off the surface to removesanding> dust and sap afterwards though....> My test coupons have never broke on the glue line when doing this.> > Larry> > > Steve Eldredge wrote:> > > Sanding joints to be glued is bad practice. On the ribs you might getaway> > with it since the gussett is carrying the load. If I ever hear ofsomeone> > doing it in a scarf joint however I am going to have to loose my cool.(or> > something)> >> > Stevee> >> > Aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu wrote:> >> > > PI>Richard,> > >> > > About tools: I have only built ribs so far but I found a sanding> > > machine to be very> > > useful. I am referring to the type that has a 6" disk sander and a> > > four inch wide> > > belt sander. I also bought a couple of little X-acto hobby saws. They> > > are good for> > > cutting the ribstock . Another builder told me a mistake he hadmade.> > > He did not> > > have a table saw, so went to a friend and cut half of all hisribstock> > > one night, then> > > went back a couple months later and they cut the rest of it. Butthey> > > weren't> > > accurate enough, and the second batch was just enough fatter that hehad> > > a terrible> > > time getting it into the same jig. There are a couple solutions to> > > this, just keep it in> > > mind.> > >> > > John Fay> > ________________________________________________________________________________
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> Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Ted Brousseau
> > Sanding joints to be glued is bad practice. On the ribs you might getaway> with it since the gussett is carrying the load. If I ever hear ofsomeone> doing it in a scarf joint however I am going to have to loose my cool.(or> something)> > Stevee> > > Aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu wrote:> > > PI>Richard,> >> > About tools: I have only built ribs so far but I found a sanding> > machine to be very> > useful. I am referring to the type that has a 6" disk sander and a> > four inch wide> > belt sander. I also bought a couple of little X-acto hobby saws. They> > are good for> > cutting the ribstock . Another builder told me a mistake he had made.> > He did not> > have a table saw, so went to a friend and cut half of all his ribstock> > one night, then> > went back a couple months later and they cut the rest of it. But they> > weren't> > accurate enough, and the second batch was just enough fatter that hehad> > a terrible> > time getting it into the same jig. There are a couple solutions to> > this, just keep it in> > mind.> >> > John Fay> > ________________________________________________________________________________
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> > Re: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: Greg Cardinal
> >> > Sanding joints to be glued is bad practice. On the ribs you might get> away> > with it since the gussett is carrying the load. If I ever hear of> someone> > doing it in a scarf joint however I am going to have to loose my cool.> (or> > something)> >> > Stevee> >> >> > Aron(at)hrn.bradley.edu wrote:> >> > > PI>Richard,> > >> > > About tools: I have only built ribs so far but I found a sanding> > > machine to be very> > > useful. I am referring to the type that has a 6" disk sander and a> > > four inch wide> > > belt sander. I also bought a couple of little X-acto hobby saws.> They> > > are good for> > > cutting the ribstock . Another builder told me a mistake he had made.> > > He did not> > > have a table saw, so went to a friend and cut half of all his ribstock> > > one night, then> > > went back a couple months later and they cut the rest of it. But they> > > weren't> > > accurate enough, and the second batch was just enough fatter that he> had> > > a terrible> > > time getting it into the same jig. There are a couple solutions to> > > this, just keep it in> > > mind.> > >> > > John Fay> >> >________________________________________________________________________________
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> RE: More about Tools, etc...

Post by matronics »

Original Posted By: "Gerard "Larry" Huber"
> > Wicks 800-221-9425> > Stevee> > On Thursday, January 15, 1998 4:45 AM, Richard DeCosta[SMTP:rdecosta(at)autoeurope.com] wrote:> > I just bought some from Wicks Aircraft Supply. Don't have their # off > > hand, tho. Anyone?> > > > > I'm having a little trouble finding T-88 in Seattle. Does anyoneknow where> > > I can get this stuff?> > > > > > Thanks,> > > > > > Brent Reed> > > > > > >With the old style cassein glues, it may be more critical than with> > > >Aerolite or T-88. Mahogony ply also should be checked for glaze and> > > >'lightly sanded> > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------> > Web Developer, http://www.autoeurope.com> > Homepage: http://www.wrld.com/w3builder__________ ... __________
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