Pietenpol-List: Plane Crazy

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 6:10 am

Original Posted By:>> David
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plane Crazy>>I watched the first 20 minutes while taping it. I found him to be quite>irratating, but I can't pinpoint exactly what it was about him. After awhile>you just want to smack that guy.>>Jay>N71KFI have a list of why I would like to smack the guy.1. His design was really way to complicated. It origonaly had a mid enginedriveing a pusher tractor prop with a reduction drive. It could take Yearsjust to work out the bugs in that power train.2. He ignored the advice of experts like Peter Garison.3. He go abuseave to people because of his own mistakes.4. He blamed other people for his mistakes>>> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:25:26 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 6:15 am

Original Posted By:> > David
I enjoyed the last hour quite a bit. The first two were very frustrating, and not extremely interesting, as I dont really have an interest in composite aircaft, just wood & metal ones (for now anyway).I found the last hour fun, since I am new to homebuilding, and have not had a ton of exposure to it yet, other than in books and on the net.Also, unless I was mistaken, I did catch a glimps of a Piet fuselage and rib in the 1st half hour... Richardhttp://www.wrld.com/w3builder/pietOn 23 Jul 98 at 8:08, Janine Sunlin wrote:> > I watched the first 20 minutes while taping it. I found him to be> quite irratating, but I can't pinpoint exactly what it was about> him. After a while you just want to smack that guy. > > Jay> N71KF> > > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:25:26 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 9:25 am

Original Posted By: baileys(at)ktis.net (Robert M. Bailey)
Did anyone else see the PBS special Plane Crazy?I can say that I think it was the WORST show on homebuilts I have ever seen.Website http://www.eclipsecat.comThe home of Advantage Software the makers of Eclipse________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 9:50 am

Original Posted By: Janine Sunlin
>Did anyone else see the PBS special Plane Crazy?>I can say that I think it was the WORST show on homebuilts I have ever seen.Nice free advertisement for Fisher Aero, though!I had a hard time watching him chainsaw the fast glass, though. What's wrong with setting it aside and coming back to it later?________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 10:03 am

Original Posted By:> David
I saw only the beginning, but recorded it all for later viewing. I wasvery turned off by the guys attitude and felt that some of his comments hadno relevance to the main subject.Maybe I should just erase the tape.Bob B.

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 10:08 am

Original Posted By:> David
I watched the first 20 minutes while taping it. I found him to be quite irratating, but I can't pinpoint exactly what it was about him. After a while you just want to smack that guy. JayN71KF> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:25:26 -0400

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 10:16 am

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Try This: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/home.html>Did anyone else see the PBS special Plane Crazy?>I can say that I think it was the WORST show on homebuilts I have everseen.>>Website http://www.eclipsecat.com>The home of Advantage Software the makers of Eclipse>>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 10:23 am

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
>Did anyone else see the PBS special Plane Crazy?>I can say that I think it was the WORST show on homebuilts I have ever seen.I watched the whole program and yes he was a bit aloof about the wholedeal but....the guy had already built 5 airplanes and was just trying to pushthe human envelope for fun. (obviously this guy makes good moneyin silicon valley where he works) If you listened to his final conclusionsthey where pretty much what builders told him at fly-in's at the beginning-it took them 4, 5, 8, 12, 20 years to build their airplanes and that heshouldn't expect much in 30 days. Taking the chainsaw to the first glass project was an illustration thatif you build fast you build junk and that no amount of re-doing was going to salvage that workmanship. I wouldn't sleep well even giving that fuselage away. Anywho, Fisher Biplanes look FUN, don'tthey ???Keep building those Pietenpols !!! MDC________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 10:48 am

Original Posted By:> David
I didn't get a chance to see it. Anyone willing to make a copy?Stevee-----Original Message-----Robert M. BaileySent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 9:03 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plane CrazyI saw only the beginning, but recorded it all for later viewing. I wasvery turned off by the guys attitude and felt that some of his comments hadno relevance to the main subject.Maybe I should just erase the tape.Bob B.

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 10:59 am

Original Posted By: Peter P Frantz
Peace home builders.. I heard about the PBS special at my Optimistmeeting by a fellow aeronaut..He had warned me that the lst two hours were thepits, so I tuned in about half way through the show and saw the final demiseof the lst attempt. I thought the show had a lot of hype as that is the way TV feels peoplewant to be entertained. Part 2 showed the frustrations.. I have a dear friendwith a GP4 who has had a number of mishaps, the latest being a bent prop.Things happen. I wondered why the expert engine person did not attempt to tryto start the engine. My wife watched some of the Ohio segments, and I explained to her whythere was so much interaction on the net with builders using wood and glue. Ithink she saw how difficult it was. My recommendation would be that people watch the last hour.. I do know that at Southwest Mo. U, they built a Wag Aero project in aweek for one of their A & P programs. I did enjoy the flying scenes. I still wonder if he flew the planeback to Silicone Valley. Dr. Orville E. Lanham, Bellevue, Ne.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 10:59 am

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
If you're curious about the Fisher Biplane check out: http://www.axsnet.com/~albrown/biplane/Looks like too many wings to me. I missed the program on PBS, but it sounds like I didn't miss much.--Peter________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 11:01 am

Original Posted By:> David
nevermind. I just read his website.Stevee-----Original Message-----steve(at)byu.eduSent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 9:49 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Plane CrazyI didn't get a chance to see it. Anyone willing to make a copy?Stevee-----Original Message-----Robert M. BaileySent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 9:03 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plane CrazyI saw only the beginning, but recorded it all for later viewing. I wasvery turned off by the guys attitude and felt that some of his comments hadno relevance to the main subject.Maybe I should just erase the tape.Bob B.

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 11:37 am

Original Posted By: Janine Sunlin
-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 1:58 pm

Original Posted By: Jerry Guyer
It seemed to me that he didn't build an airplane in 30 days, at all...hemostly watched while the folks at the factory built one for him. He didn'ttackle the problems which arose, he had someone else do it for him. Everyyear at Oshkosh, a team builds a Zenith airplane in SEVEN days. Maybe thatwould be a more appropriate and meaningful program for PBS...how a team workstogether to accomplish a complex and demanding task.Don________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 5:58 pm

Original Posted By: Paris Wilcox
>I had a hard time watching him chainsaw the fast glass, though. What's >wrong with setting it aside and coming back to it later?How about the fact that he did a really lousy job on it?Didn't fill in the gaps in his foam core with micro, so hisfuselage would have had lots of really weak points.Used pure resin on the glass, and so much of it that theplane would have needed a Merlin to get its weight off theground. Etc. Cutting it up was the best thing he did with it.Too bad they didn't find someone like Garrison to do the30-day project. As Cringely (spelling?) pointed out, Lairddid it. So did Mignet with the Flying Flea. The right personcould have made a really interesting program. No doubtit was Cringely's idea, and they couldn't put a morecapable builder on it.What I can't figure out is how a guy who claims to havebuilt five planes could understand so little about what ittakes to design and build one.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 23, 1998 8:23 pm

Original Posted By: Ed0248(at)aol.com
This was not a homebuilt vidio. it was phyche 101. Who ever told this guy anyone cares what he thinks??????________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 24, 1998 7:31 am

Original Posted By: Owen Davies
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plane Crazy>It seems that there is quite a bit of concensus on the quality of theprogram>and its' "star". I wasn't the least bit impressed with his credentials, if>this drivel is all that his vast experience has taught him...and not theleast>bit of humility.>>P.S. How many of you go flying (ESPECIALLY ON A TEST/FIRST FLIGHT) inyour>stocking feet and no protective gear? Says a lot for his intelligence, I>think.>>Ed>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 24, 1998 11:29 am

Original Posted By: David
It seems that there is quite a bit of concensus on the quality of the programand its' "star". I wasn't the least bit impressed with his credentials, ifthis drivel is all that his vast experience has taught him...and not the leastbit of humility.P.S. How many of you go flying (ESPECIALLY ON A TEST/FIRST FLIGHT) in yourstocking feet and no protective gear? Says a lot for his intelligence, Ithink.Ed________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 24, 1998 1:01 pm

Original Posted By: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Let's not forget the lack of a helmet.-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 24, 1998 3:24 pm

Original Posted By: PTNPOL(at)aol.com
Just a thought, but is anyone giving feedback to PBS? It might be agood thing if they are capable of recieving constructive critcism.Paris---Owen Davies wrote:>> >I had a hard time watching him chainsaw the fast glass, though. What's > >wrong with setting it aside and coming back to it later?> > > How about the fact that he did a really lousy job on it?> Didn't fill in the gaps in his foam core with micro, so his> fuselage would have had lots of really weak points.> Used pure resin on the glass, and so much of it that the> plane would have needed a Merlin to get its weight off the> ground. Etc. Cutting it up was the best thing he did with it.> > Too bad they didn't find someone like Garrison to do the> 30-day project. As Cringely (spelling?) pointed out, Laird> did it. So did Mignet with the Flying Flea. The right person> could have made a really interesting program. No doubt> it was Cringely's idea, and they couldn't put a more> capable builder on it.> > What I can't figure out is how a guy who claims to have> built five planes could understand so little about what it> takes to design and build one.> > Owen Davies> > ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 24, 1998 10:30 pm

Original Posted By: Randy Stockberger
>Nice free advertisement for Fisher Aero, though!Yes, it was a nice advertisement for Fisher, I was impressed by their kitand their work ethic.>I had a hard time watching him chainsaw the fast glass, though. What's>wrong with setting it aside and coming back to it later?Sawing up that airplane was the first smart thing he did. The workmanshipwas horrible, I believe Peter Garrison called it 'slapdash' or some otherpolite term. It was low enough quality to be emberassing.When he cut the bulkheads for the forms he should have sanded and fairedeach station to make a smooth line between it and it's neighbors, that takestime so he skipped it, you can see how rough some of the unfaird fore/aftlines are in some of the camera shots.When he cut the foam and laid it into the forms he should have spent severalminutes to an hour with each piece planing the adjoining edges so they hadcontact with the adjacent piece along the entire length and width of thebutt joint. He skipped this, some of the resulting gaps were as wide as 1/2inch!When he laid up the glass he should have had almost no visible air. Amarginal job would have had pinhead sized air bubbles under about 20% of anygiven palm sized area, instead he had bubbles several inches across covering50% or more of areas the size of a dinner plate.In order to 'fix' the problems he would have had to spend much more timethan he would have saved by starting over.I find the entire idea of building an airplane with the underlying goal offinishing and flying it within 30 days to be offensive. Watching him runfrom expert to expert looking for someone to agree with him, then ignoringthem all when they didn't is some measure of his intellegence. Did younotice that when he finally got Martin Hollman to design the airplane hetotally ignored Cringely's design ideas and gave him a relativelyconventional and simple design.Randy Stockberger________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 24, 1998 10:54 pm

Original Posted By:>> Randy Stockberger
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plane Crazy>>>----------

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 25, 1998 5:51 am

Original Posted By:> Randy Stockberger

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Jul 26, 1998 1:36 am

Original Posted By: Robert M. Bailey
That book was called "How To Build Composite Aircraft" by Martin Hollman-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Jul 26, 1998 7:49 am

Original Posted By:> Robert M. Bailey
Yall might be able to save yerself some stamps and shoe leather byseeing if my online book store has anything on these subjects.The urlis:engine dedecated to book finding.SteveBrent Reed wrote:> > That book was called "How To Build Composite Aircraft" by Martin Hollman> -----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jul 29, 1998 11:39 pm

Original Posted By:>> Randy Stockberger
Martin Holman's Modern Aircraft Design volumes 1 and 2. Interesting reading.Not a total summary of design. You cannot do it all with just V1 & V2.Also, most was done on Mac computers--Martin did not follow the ease ofspreadsheets or Bill Gates. Reprise your college engineering coursework onstrength of materials, statics, mechanics so that you can understandHolman's books in depth. They are a good advertisement for Holman'sbusiness--to design a plane for you at a price. See the Lancair. Holmanleaves the details to you, just like his drawings for Bob C. had no (atleast visible to us) layup schedule or dimensions! Bob Cringley also forgot project planning until Fisher reminded himof it. Break down the project into tasks, develop critical path, sequencestructure and work the plan. One thing more. Bob wanted to build his planein 30 days = 30 man-days. With the Fishers this equaled more like 180 (sixpeople!) man-days. With the mechanic who delivered an untested engine countanother 15 man-days! And, with a Fisher kit of materials ready, he shortedthe work! He bypassed the Volk'splane which he showed at Oshkosh as beingtoo simple for his tastes, another plane he might have been successful with.Boxes are easier to build than fast glass.>>----------

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 30, 1998 11:39 am

Original Posted By: oil can
We saw Bob destroy the fuselage, but what happened to the wings? Will heuse them on something else? For our Piet Subie people, I found out the original Subie engine was anaircraft engine that was modified for auto use. Hence te ease of installation,and other stuff.Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 31, 1998 2:29 am

Original Posted By: pilot00(at)earthlink.net
more info on a SUBIE ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE SUBARU???????/At 12:39> We saw Bob destroy the fuselage, but what happened to the wings? Will he>use them on something else? >> For our Piet Subie people, I found out the original Subie engine was an>aircraft engine that was modified for auto use. Hence te ease of installation,>and other stuff.>>Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne >>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Tue Aug 04, 1998 10:22 pm

Original Posted By: "Richard F. Rapp"
Hi Orville, Was the original application for the Subie really as an aircraftpowerplant??? That might lead one to believe Fuji Heavy Industriesfabricates aircraft engines.. Is THAT correct? Not that I'm an enthusiast over the fine points to any fanaticalsense, but it does sound interesting!Thanx, RichOn Thu, 30 Jul 1998 LanhamOS(at)aol.com wrote:> We saw Bob destroy the fuselage, but what happened to the wings? Will he> use them on something else? > > For our Piet Subie people, I found out the original Subie engine was an> aircraft engine that was modified for auto use. Hence te ease of installation,> and other stuff.> > Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne > > ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: dswagler(at)cobkf.ang.af.mil
> > Did anyone else see the PBS special Plane Crazy?> I can say that I think it was the WORST show on homebuilts I have everseen.> > Website http://www.eclipsecat.com> The home of Advantage Software the makers of Eclipse> ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: LanhamOS(at)aol.com
> > Did anyone else see the PBS special Plane Crazy?> I can say that I think it was the WORST show on homebuilts I have everseen.> > Website http://www.eclipsecat.com> The home of Advantage Software the makers of Eclipse> ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: David
> > Did anyone else see the PBS special Plane Crazy?> I can say that I think it was the WORST show on homebuilts I have everseen.> > Website http://www.eclipsecat.com> The home of Advantage Software the makers of Eclipse> ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: Brad Schultz
One thing that did interest me, but it went by so fast I didn't get much ofa look at it. What was the book on composite construction the wasreferenced?Bob B.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: Steve W
>One thing that did interest me, but it went by so fast I didn't get much of>a look at it. What was the book on composite construction the was>referenced?>Bob B.>________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By:> >> Randy Stockberger
> Subject: Re: Plane Crazy> > >> >> >----------

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: Steve W
> >One thing that did interest me, but it went by so fast I didn't get much of> >a look at it. What was the book on composite construction the was> >referenced?> >Bob B.> >________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By:> > >> Randy Stockberger
> > Subject: Re: Plane Crazy> > > > >> > >> > >----------

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: HPVSUPPLY(at)aol.com
> > >One thing that did interest me, but it went by so fast I didn't getmuch of> > >a look at it. What was the book on composite construction the was> > >referenced?> > >Bob B.> > >________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:27 pm

Original Posted By: LanhamOS(at)aol.com
>One thing that did interest me, but it went by so fast I didn't get much of>a look at it. What was the book on composite construction the was>referenced?>Bob B.>>________________________________________________________________________________