Original Posted By: Seibert
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re:Trim> My wife thinks I am on a net with some conscientous people, as she>counts the number each morning. I think it is great about all thecooperation>on so many topics with advice, hints about sources, etc. The discussion on>airfoils today was great. I would love to have been at Broadhead. I havetried>to access the website, but my service has a supply of gremlins. I will trymy>machine at the office lab today,>> I wondered about trim when I first looked at drawings of the Piet. Oneof>my friends has Flybaby, and I asked him about trim. He said it didn't seem>important in flight, even when fuel is burned off.>> My suggestion would be similar to the one today on the net, except for>the winglets. Look at prewar B series T Crafts. They had a trim below the>elevator, which was like a small extra wing, controlled from the cockpitunder>the seat. It was bout 4 inches long, and maybe two wide. I am sure someone>could duplicate the control levels. Am also interested in how the elevator>crank was installed.>> I am writing an article for an aviation mag about the Piet, lead lineis>"What is 70 years old and Still going strong like the Energy Bunny". What>shall I write?>> Dr. Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne.>Hi Orville What a great topic! I know most Piets will last longer than theenergy bunny. I'll try to collect all my early Canadian Piet info and passit on to you.Not for a day or so. I'm leaving tomorrow for an airshow at Thunder Bay Ont.I get to travel in the Mk 11 Harvard! Grin! The Cornell and the Tiger lefttoday as they are so much slower, almost Piet speed.John Mc________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re:Trim
Pietenpol-List: Re:Trim
Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
My wife thinks I am on a net with some conscientous people, as shecounts the number each morning. I think it is great about all the cooperationon so many topics with advice, hints about sources, etc. The discussion onairfoils today was great. I would love to have been at Broadhead. I have triedto access the website, but my service has a supply of gremlins. I will try mymachine at the office lab today, I wondered about trim when I first looked at drawings of the Piet. One ofmy friends has Flybaby, and I asked him about trim. He said it didn't seemimportant in flight, even when fuel is burned off. My suggestion would be similar to the one today on the net, except forthe winglets. Look at prewar B series T Crafts. They had a trim below theelevator, which was like a small extra wing, controlled from the cockpit underthe seat. It was bout 4 inches long, and maybe two wide. I am sure someonecould duplicate the control levels. Am also interested in how the elevatorcrank was installed. I am writing an article for an aviation mag about the Piet, lead line is"What is 70 years old and Still going strong like the Energy Bunny". Whatshall I write? Dr. Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne.________________________________________________________________________________
My wife thinks I am on a net with some conscientous people, as shecounts the number each morning. I think it is great about all the cooperationon so many topics with advice, hints about sources, etc. The discussion onairfoils today was great. I would love to have been at Broadhead. I have triedto access the website, but my service has a supply of gremlins. I will try mymachine at the office lab today, I wondered about trim when I first looked at drawings of the Piet. One ofmy friends has Flybaby, and I asked him about trim. He said it didn't seemimportant in flight, even when fuel is burned off. My suggestion would be similar to the one today on the net, except forthe winglets. Look at prewar B series T Crafts. They had a trim below theelevator, which was like a small extra wing, controlled from the cockpit underthe seat. It was bout 4 inches long, and maybe two wide. I am sure someonecould duplicate the control levels. Am also interested in how the elevatorcrank was installed. I am writing an article for an aviation mag about the Piet, lead line is"What is 70 years old and Still going strong like the Energy Bunny". Whatshall I write? Dr. Orville Lanham, Bellevue, Ne.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Re:Trim
Original Posted By: LanhamOS(at)aol.com
-----Original Message-----
-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim
Original Posted By: "Gary Meadows"
Del,I think your further consideration of trim for the Piet is worthy of theeffort. Personally, I will be looking seriously at how to include a cleanand simple method of trimming my ship out when I get to that part of thebuilding process.My first idea is for wheel or lever actuated elevator controll arm springs.But, being cautiously suspect of any modification ideas I get about buildingan airplane, it's only a consideration. However, you can bet I'll give thisconsiderably more time when I get to that part of the building process.Right now I'm looking at fuel tank options. A forward fuselage mounted tankwould seem to make some kind of trim system necessary regardless of how wellthe ship is rigged. Keep us posted.MichaelChecking the mailbox and UPS trucks for Vi Kapler's plans and woodPortland, OR________________________________________________________________________________
Del,I think your further consideration of trim for the Piet is worthy of theeffort. Personally, I will be looking seriously at how to include a cleanand simple method of trimming my ship out when I get to that part of thebuilding process.My first idea is for wheel or lever actuated elevator controll arm springs.But, being cautiously suspect of any modification ideas I get about buildingan airplane, it's only a consideration. However, you can bet I'll give thisconsiderably more time when I get to that part of the building process.Right now I'm looking at fuel tank options. A forward fuselage mounted tankwould seem to make some kind of trim system necessary regardless of how wellthe ship is rigged. Keep us posted.MichaelChecking the mailbox and UPS trucks for Vi Kapler's plans and woodPortland, OR________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: robin goodfellow
Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: Doug413(at)aol.com
Dave & Connie wrote:"At the rate I am going my grandchildren will install the trim butwhy not do something really simple like the very old Taylorcrafts.They used a small wing under the horizontal stabilizer to providetrim. Because it didn't move with the elevator the geometry ispretty straight forward. I think they were used on the TCarts upto about 1940. My '41 doesn't have it.DaveRetsof, NY"There was a Piet at Brodhead several years back that had the above trimconfiruration. If a remember correctly, the owner said that it didn'twork very well.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
Dave & Connie wrote:"At the rate I am going my grandchildren will install the trim butwhy not do something really simple like the very old Taylorcrafts.They used a small wing under the horizontal stabilizer to providetrim. Because it didn't move with the elevator the geometry ispretty straight forward. I think they were used on the TCarts upto about 1940. My '41 doesn't have it.DaveRetsof, NY"There was a Piet at Brodhead several years back that had the above trimconfiruration. If a remember correctly, the owner said that it didn'twork very well.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: "Owen Davies"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TrimI had one on my 1930 Buhl Bull Pup and it didn't work at all !!Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TrimI had one on my 1930 Buhl Bull Pup and it didn't work at all !!Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: "Michael Conkling"
Don Hicks said:> I had one on my 1930 Buhl Bull Pup and it didn't work at all !!I know it's off topic, but please tell us more about that plane!Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________
Don Hicks said:> I had one on my 1930 Buhl Bull Pup and it didn't work at all !!I know it's off topic, but please tell us more about that plane!Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TrimIn a message dated 04/19/2001 5:07:26 PM Central Daylight Time, owen(at)davies.mv.com writes:>For interested listers I'll tell you the basics and will give Owen or any others the details direct if you let me know you'd like them.100 Bull Pups were manufactured in 1929-30 in Marysville Mich. by Buhl Aircraft under ATC #405. It was a single place, open cockpit, shoulder wing monoplane powered by a 3-cyl Szekeley, 45 hp engine (pronounced zeek-lee by many. say-kay by the family but was just plain Zeke to those who flew 'em) I owned two of the five still on the books. You simply couldn't get a bigger blast out of flying....unless it's a Pietenpol !!!Don Hicks Hartford, Al.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TrimIn a message dated 04/19/2001 5:07:26 PM Central Daylight Time, owen(at)davies.mv.com writes:>For interested listers I'll tell you the basics and will give Owen or any others the details direct if you let me know you'd like them.100 Bull Pups were manufactured in 1929-30 in Marysville Mich. by Buhl Aircraft under ATC #405. It was a single place, open cockpit, shoulder wing monoplane powered by a 3-cyl Szekeley, 45 hp engine (pronounced zeek-lee by many. say-kay by the family but was just plain Zeke to those who flew 'em) I owned two of the five still on the books. You simply couldn't get a bigger blast out of flying....unless it's a Pietenpol !!!Don Hicks Hartford, Al.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: Doc Mosher
Corky...I believe it was Doug Bryant that said he tweaked his trim by adusting the front Horizontal stabilizer turnbuckles which twists the leading edge of the stabilizer up or down to trim the tail. If you tighten the lowers and loosen the uppers a little at a time it should put down pressure on the tail. Never done it, but I heard it works and it's not permanant. Once the big guy gets to fly it it can be readusted. Just a suggestion that may work. Ed G.http://www.hotmail.com________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:51:55 -0500
Corky...I believe it was Doug Bryant that said he tweaked his trim by adusting the front Horizontal stabilizer turnbuckles which twists the leading edge of the stabilizer up or down to trim the tail. If you tighten the lowers and loosen the uppers a little at a time it should put down pressure on the tail. Never done it, but I heard it works and it's not permanant. Once the big guy gets to fly it it can be readusted. Just a suggestion that may work. Ed G.http://www.hotmail.com________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:51:55 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: "John Dilatush"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TrimThanks Ed,We are flying it again tomorrow afternoon weather permitting and I believe I'll just add a pound or two securely to the tail wheel spring and experiment by degrees with this light test pilot.Corky still in La________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: TrimThanks Ed,We are flying it again tomorrow afternoon weather permitting and I believe I'll just add a pound or two securely to the tail wheel spring and experiment by degrees with this light test pilot.Corky still in La________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Gene Rambo's on that named list, too. When he told me that he'd looked over theairplane last year after the crash I knew we were in good shape.Sorry Gene!Kevin--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Gene Rambo's on that named list, too. When he told me that he'd looked over theairplane last year after the crash I knew we were in good shape.Sorry Gene!Kevin--------Kevin "Axel" PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
I still consider myself a newbie here but have learned to respect the opinionsof the same people you have listed. Two of those individuals share private emailswith me and answer the questions I have but don't want to post on the list.Jack Phillips would be another one I would put my trust in but he hates corvairengines.This weekend a friend of mine told me to avoid using T-88 epoxy as it will breakdown at 110 degrees F. So on the tarmac at Phoenix in the summer your planecould fall apart. I emailed threesystems about heat limits of T-88 and thisis their reply.An upper limit would be around 160-180F. The T-88 itself will not fail.Failure comes from a combination of stresses from the wood shrinkingcombined with the fact that the Glass Transition Temperature for T-88 isaround 150F. System Three Resins, Inc.Technical Support253-333-8118www.systemthree.com--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:15:18 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
I still consider myself a newbie here but have learned to respect the opinionsof the same people you have listed. Two of those individuals share private emailswith me and answer the questions I have but don't want to post on the list.Jack Phillips would be another one I would put my trust in but he hates corvairengines.This weekend a friend of mine told me to avoid using T-88 epoxy as it will breakdown at 110 degrees F. So on the tarmac at Phoenix in the summer your planecould fall apart. I emailed threesystems about heat limits of T-88 and thisis their reply.An upper limit would be around 160-180F. The T-88 itself will not fail.Failure comes from a combination of stresses from the wood shrinkingcombined with the fact that the Glass Transition Temperature for T-88 isaround 150F. System Three Resins, Inc.Technical Support253-333-8118www.systemthree.com--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 11:15:18 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: mike Hardaway
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: "Gboothe5"
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________________________________________________________________________________
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RE: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks, Rick! To heck with it.I'm going full IFR, while I'm at it..Gary
Thanks, Rick! To heck with it.I'm going full IFR, while I'm at it..Gary
Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
A 1966 with a 110 motor eh? That may very well be, but did you have an RH case? [Laughing]--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:00:49 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
A 1966 with a 110 motor eh? That may very well be, but did you have an RH case? [Laughing]--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:00:49 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Trim
Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim
Original Posted By: "GliderMike"
Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the controlsticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the control sticksseem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears to befrom the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt through them(holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have others modifiedthe control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to alleviatethis?Thanks,Steve--------Stevewww.mypiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim
Can I get feedback on how much (if any) "play" there should/can be in the controlsticks? My flight controls are in (minus the cables), but the control sticksseem to have a little bit of play (side to side only), which appears to befrom the control stick bottom tabs which have the torque tube bolt through them(holes/bolt correct size and all seems to be per the plans). Have others modifiedthe control stick tabs on the bottom or the torque tube in some way to alleviatethis?Thanks,Steve--------Stevewww.mypiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Trim