Original Posted By: Thomas E Bowdler
Hello All, I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings. On the partsthat called for 14ga, 13ga, and 12ga, did everyone use .125 for all?Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses?DannyMac________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: not much difference
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference>>I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings.>>did everyone use .125 for all?>>Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses?>> Use exact thicknesses. There is a chart in one of the catalogs,>Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or one of those that converts gauge to thickness.> I don't remember any that are .125. Save weight where you can. The>plane is plenty strong and 4130 is better than what was used in the 30's.> Since most of the fittings are strap type my Rx would be to buy the>pre-sheared strips>they sell then you just have to cut them to length, drill and bend.> I know the Flying and Glider manuals suggested making metal fittings>first. My feeling is you should build the parts you are going to attatch>the fittings to then build the metal parts so they will fit. Remember to>do as Mike Cuy and others suggest and made the tabs to which other parts>attach longer than plans. It will ease access for assembly later.>Been there,>Tom>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference>>I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings.>>did everyone use .125 for all?>>Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses?>> Use exact thicknesses. There is a chart in one of the catalogs,>Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or one of those that converts gauge to thickness.> I don't remember any that are .125. Save weight where you can. The>plane is plenty strong and 4130 is better than what was used in the 30's.> Since most of the fittings are strap type my Rx would be to buy the>pre-sheared strips>they sell then you just have to cut them to length, drill and bend.> I know the Flying and Glider manuals suggested making metal fittings>first. My feeling is you should build the parts you are going to attatch>the fittings to then build the metal parts so they will fit. Remember to>do as Mike Cuy and others suggest and made the tabs to which other parts>attach longer than plans. It will ease access for assembly later.>Been there,>Tom>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference>>I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings.>>did everyone use .125 for all?>>Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses?>> Use exact thicknesses. There is a chart in one of the catalogs,>Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or one of those that converts gauge to thickness.> I don't remember any that are .125. Save weight where you can. The>plane is plenty strong and 4130 is better than what was used in the 30's.> Since most of the fittings are strap type my Rx would be to buy the>pre-sheared strips>they sell then you just have to cut them to length, drill and bend.> I know the Flying and Glider manuals suggested making metal fittings>first. My feeling is you should build the parts you are going to attatch>the fittings to then build the metal parts so they will fit. Remember to>do as Mike Cuy and others suggest and made the tabs to which other parts>attach longer than plans. It will ease access for assembly later.>Been there,>Tom>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference>>I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings.>>did everyone use .125 for all?>>Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses?>> Use exact thicknesses. There is a chart in one of the catalogs,>Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or one of those that converts gauge to thickness.> I don't remember any that are .125. Save weight where you can. The>plane is plenty strong and 4130 is better than what was used in the 30's.> Since most of the fittings are strap type my Rx would be to buy the>pre-sheared strips>they sell then you just have to cut them to length, drill and bend.> I know the Flying and Glider manuals suggested making metal fittings>first. My feeling is you should build the parts you are going to attatch>the fittings to then build the metal parts so they will fit. Remember to>do as Mike Cuy and others suggest and made the tabs to which other parts>attach longer than plans. It will ease access for assembly later.>Been there,>Tom>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: Thomas E Bowdler
Excellent advice -- on all points.If you make all the fittings first you will have to make them again -- tofit!John-----Original Message-----
Excellent advice -- on all points.If you make all the fittings first you will have to make them again -- tofit!John-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: John Greenlee
>I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings. >did everyone use .125 for all?>Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses? Use exact thicknesses. There is a chart in one of the catalogs,Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or one of those that converts gauge to thickness. I don't remember any that are .125. Save weight where you can. Theplane is plenty strong and 4130 is better than what was used in the 30's. Since most of the fittings are strap type my Rx would be to buy thepre-sheared stripsthey sell then you just have to cut them to length, drill and bend. I know the Flying and Glider manuals suggested making metal fittingsfirst. My feeling is you should build the parts you are going to attatchthe fittings to then build the metal parts so they will fit. Remember todo as Mike Cuy and others suggest and made the tabs to which other partsattach longer than plans. It will ease access for assembly later.Been there,Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
>I am preparing to start on the hardware and fittings. >did everyone use .125 for all?>Or did you all use exact individual thicknesses? Use exact thicknesses. There is a chart in one of the catalogs,Aircraft Spruce, Wicks or one of those that converts gauge to thickness. I don't remember any that are .125. Save weight where you can. Theplane is plenty strong and 4130 is better than what was used in the 30's. Since most of the fittings are strap type my Rx would be to buy thepre-sheared stripsthey sell then you just have to cut them to length, drill and bend. I know the Flying and Glider manuals suggested making metal fittingsfirst. My feeling is you should build the parts you are going to attatchthe fittings to then build the metal parts so they will fit. Remember todo as Mike Cuy and others suggest and made the tabs to which other partsattach longer than plans. It will ease access for assembly later.Been there,Tom__________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: Thomas E Bowdler
Gents; Ref the metal fittings, it a BIG time saver to buy the pre-cut strips! Justcut, bend and "polish" the edges. As on the Aircamper, my Scout fittingsneeded to be longer, up to 1/4" in most cases. My fittings were all pre-madeso when final assembly came along, I had a tough time getting bolts in andthings to "fit up". I don't know how they got bolts/nuts to fitoriginally........Next time, I would make the fittings as I go AND longer asrequired.Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Gents; Ref the metal fittings, it a BIG time saver to buy the pre-cut strips! Justcut, bend and "polish" the edges. As on the Aircamper, my Scout fittingsneeded to be longer, up to 1/4" in most cases. My fittings were all pre-madeso when final assembly came along, I had a tough time getting bolts in andthings to "fit up". I don't know how they got bolts/nuts to fitoriginally........Next time, I would make the fittings as I go AND longer asrequired.Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: not much difference
Original Posted By: Eric Norris
About fittings fitting.I began my Piet project by making as many of the tedious and timeconsuming fittings as possible.Some fittings,eg. stab and fin fittings,will necessarily have to be made on assembly.In order to assure that the fittings fit, I suggest making an accuratelayout of the fitting interfaces, ie.top, front and sideviews. I've donethis for my project and noted that some of the fittings, as per thedrawings, did not provide adquate fastner clearances or edge distancefor some matting parts. Earl Myers response about his scout fittingsneeding to be up to 1/4" longer is consistant with my findings.Also, in the interest minimizing aft end weight, I'm incorperating someGN-1 aircamper type fittings on the tail. The GN-1 fitting gages areless than those called for on the 1933 aircamper drawings, ie. 0.065compared to 0.090.Question for all you piet experts out there; My 1933 piet blueprintshows a 1/4" hole in the bottom lift strut fitting plate. Whats's itspurpose?About fittingsfitting.________________________________________________________________________________
About fittings fitting.I began my Piet project by making as many of the tedious and timeconsuming fittings as possible.Some fittings,eg. stab and fin fittings,will necessarily have to be made on assembly.In order to assure that the fittings fit, I suggest making an accuratelayout of the fitting interfaces, ie.top, front and sideviews. I've donethis for my project and noted that some of the fittings, as per thedrawings, did not provide adquate fastner clearances or edge distancefor some matting parts. Earl Myers response about his scout fittingsneeding to be up to 1/4" longer is consistant with my findings.Also, in the interest minimizing aft end weight, I'm incorperating someGN-1 aircamper type fittings on the tail. The GN-1 fitting gages areless than those called for on the 1933 aircamper drawings, ie. 0.065compared to 0.090.Question for all you piet experts out there; My 1933 piet blueprintshows a 1/4" hole in the bottom lift strut fitting plate. Whats's itspurpose?About fittingsfitting.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: "Conrad, Bart D"
Subject: Re: not much difference >Excellent advice -- on all points. > Danny/other fitting makers- basically 95% of all your Piet fittingscan be made of .060 and .090 steel. Even though the Piet is a woodairplane those .090 parts which could should have been .060 will be: a: moredifficult to form, bend, and cut, b: heavier than you need to be taking for ajoyride, and c: it might make your other joining fitting NOT fit ! Yikes ! The aileron horns are not easy to make but try not to be temptedinto making them out of single piece flat (read heavy) stock. It is incrediblyamazing how STRONG those two piece versions are once formed and welded. Superlight and super strong. Wheels too- if you scrounge long and hard enoughyou can avoid using steel mocycle rims. It's worth the hunt when it comestime to weigh your Piet and when you want to take that heavy Uncle of yoursfor a ride on a hot day. I don't mean to harp on saving weight all thetime, but the decisions you make today will affect your planes performance foryears and years ahead. PLUS it is really fun to fly a light Piet- theyare a total blast. I now return you to your normally scheduled discussion group:) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: not much difference >Excellent advice -- on all points. > Danny/other fitting makers- basically 95% of all your Piet fittingscan be made of .060 and .090 steel. Even though the Piet is a woodairplane those .090 parts which could should have been .060 will be: a: moredifficult to form, bend, and cut, b: heavier than you need to be taking for ajoyride, and c: it might make your other joining fitting NOT fit ! Yikes ! The aileron horns are not easy to make but try not to be temptedinto making them out of single piece flat (read heavy) stock. It is incrediblyamazing how STRONG those two piece versions are once formed and welded. Superlight and super strong. Wheels too- if you scrounge long and hard enoughyou can avoid using steel mocycle rims. It's worth the hunt when it comestime to weigh your Piet and when you want to take that heavy Uncle of yoursfor a ride on a hot day. I don't mean to harp on saving weight all thetime, but the decisions you make today will affect your planes performance foryears and years ahead. PLUS it is really fun to fly a light Piet- theyare a total blast. I now return you to your normally scheduled discussion group:) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
>Excellent advice -- on all points.>Danny/other fitting makers- basically 95% of all your Piet fittings canbe made of .060 and .090 steel. Even though the Piet is a wood airplanethose .090 parts which could should have been .060 will be: a: more difficultto form, bend, and cut, b: heavier than you need to be taking for a joyride,and c: it might make your other joining fitting NOT fit ! Yikes ! The aileron horns are not easy to make but try not to be tempted intomakingthem out of single piece flat (read heavy) stock. It is incredibly amazing howSTRONG those two piece versions are once formed and welded. Super lightand super strong. Wheels too- if you scrounge long and hard enough you canavoid using steel mocycle rims. It's worth the hunt when it comes time toweigh your Piet and when you want to take that heavy Uncle of yours fora ride on a hot day. I don't mean to harp on saving weight all the time, but the decisions you make today will affect your planes performance for yearsand years ahead. PLUS it is really fun to fly a light Piet- they are a totalblast.I now return you to your normally scheduled discussion group:)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
>Excellent advice -- on all points.>Danny/other fitting makers- basically 95% of all your Piet fittings canbe made of .060 and .090 steel. Even though the Piet is a wood airplanethose .090 parts which could should have been .060 will be: a: more difficultto form, bend, and cut, b: heavier than you need to be taking for a joyride,and c: it might make your other joining fitting NOT fit ! Yikes ! The aileron horns are not easy to make but try not to be tempted intomakingthem out of single piece flat (read heavy) stock. It is incredibly amazing howSTRONG those two piece versions are once formed and welded. Super lightand super strong. Wheels too- if you scrounge long and hard enough you canavoid using steel mocycle rims. It's worth the hunt when it comes time toweigh your Piet and when you want to take that heavy Uncle of yours fora ride on a hot day. I don't mean to harp on saving weight all the time, but the decisions you make today will affect your planes performance for yearsand years ahead. PLUS it is really fun to fly a light Piet- they are a totalblast.I now return you to your normally scheduled discussion group:)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Mike,I suspect low weight is the real key to flying with a Model A. BHP'sships were something like 615 to 630 lbs.Many say the horns are difficult if not the most difficult Piet parts tomake. I did not find them difficult. Maybe people work too hard bytrying to impart a perfect airfoil shape to them. The way I read theplans is to just bend the leading edge over on a mandrel and weld thesuckers together. Worked out o.k.John -----Original Message-----
Mike,I suspect low weight is the real key to flying with a Model A. BHP'sships were something like 615 to 630 lbs.Many say the horns are difficult if not the most difficult Piet parts tomake. I did not find them difficult. Maybe people work too hard bytrying to impart a perfect airfoil shape to them. The way I read theplans is to just bend the leading edge over on a mandrel and weld thesuckers together. Worked out o.k.John -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: not much difference
Original Posted By: Eric Norris
No big deal making the 2-piece aeleron horns per the plans. John comments are correct...just DO it...you'll be surprised how easy it is and you'll be happy you did!Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________
No big deal making the 2-piece aeleron horns per the plans. John comments are correct...just DO it...you'll be surprised how easy it is and you'll be happy you did!Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________