Original Posted By: mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com
Ok, I think it was Walt who mentioned that you "use clean cuts andnever sand", refering to the places to be glued. Well, just about everyjoint in my fuselage is sanded since my rough cuts never come out to anexact fit, so I sanded them to make an exact fit. Nice & shiney theywere, as I recall. Now I guess I'm relying entirely on the gusets forstrength. At least I went ahead and scuffed the surface of all my fusegussets. I just wish there was a way to test the strenth of my fuse,like I'm going to do with the 4 extra wing ribs I made. Can't exactlymake an extra fuse for destructive testing.This is very frustrating. Thanks all for your support.Richard===http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder_____ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: on butt-joints, sanding, and banging your head against
Pietenpol-List: Re: on butt-joints, sanding, and banging your head against
Original Posted By: Gary Woodbridge
Richard,Are you being a little too hard on yourself? Never count on a butt jointwhere end grain is used to give you any real strength at all. I haven't anyworked on the fuselage, but I can tell you without a doubt, as I'm sureanyone who has done any woodworking can, that the gusset is where you gainyour strength. Stop banging your head against the wall, you might hurt thewall. To be sure, test a butt joint with pieces of side grain. If they don'tfail, you for sure don't have a problem. By the way, the videos at aircamper.org are a shot in the arm. Thanks.Mark Boynton> Ok, I think it was Walt who mentioned that you "use clean cuts and> never sand", refering to the places to be glued. Well, just about every> joint in my fuselage is sanded since my rough cuts never come out to an> exact fit, so I sanded them to make an exact fit. Nice & shiney they> were, as I recall. Now I guess I'm relying entirely on the gusets for> strength. At least I went ahead and scuffed the surface of all my fuse> gussets. I just wish there was a way to test the strenth of my fuse,> like I'm going to do with the 4 extra wing ribs I made. Can't exactly> make an extra fuse for destructive testing.> > This is very frustrating. Thanks all for your support.> > Richard> ===> http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder> > _______Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.comTalk online at http://voicechat.excite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Richard,Are you being a little too hard on yourself? Never count on a butt jointwhere end grain is used to give you any real strength at all. I haven't anyworked on the fuselage, but I can tell you without a doubt, as I'm sureanyone who has done any woodworking can, that the gusset is where you gainyour strength. Stop banging your head against the wall, you might hurt thewall. To be sure, test a butt joint with pieces of side grain. If they don'tfail, you for sure don't have a problem. By the way, the videos at aircamper.org are a shot in the arm. Thanks.Mark Boynton> Ok, I think it was Walt who mentioned that you "use clean cuts and> never sand", refering to the places to be glued. Well, just about every> joint in my fuselage is sanded since my rough cuts never come out to an> exact fit, so I sanded them to make an exact fit. Nice & shiney they> were, as I recall. Now I guess I'm relying entirely on the gusets for> strength. At least I went ahead and scuffed the surface of all my fuse> gussets. I just wish there was a way to test the strenth of my fuse,> like I'm going to do with the 4 extra wing ribs I made. Can't exactly> make an extra fuse for destructive testing.> > This is very frustrating. Thanks all for your support.> > Richard> ===> http://www.AirCamper.org/w3builder> > _______Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.comTalk online at http://voicechat.excite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: on butt-joints, sanding, and banging your head against
Original Posted By: SAM & JAN MARINUCCI
Richard,One never relies on a butt joint alone for strength because the glue will fail in tension rather easily. A gusset plate glue line will be loaded in shear and is enormouslystrong in this loading configuration. In the clusters at the landing gear attachments, it is common practice to use corner blocks, and the com-bination of gussets and corner blocks will give you maximum strength.In addition, corner blocks prevent the accumulation of dirt and mois-ture in the joint cluster, particularly at the lower longerons.Glue lines, rivets and welds must be loaded in shear in structures inorder to produce a reliable joint. If you examine aircraft structures, thispractice will be evident.The butt joints should be properly fitted so that they will handle com-pressive forces efficiently, but the glue line there really does only twothings: it holds the parts together until the gussets and sheeting arein place, and it seals the joint to prevent the intrusion of moisture.Follow the good advice given by others regarding glue joint preparationand make some samples of joints with gussets. Test them, and stop worrying.Cheers,Graham________________________________________________________________________________
Richard,One never relies on a butt joint alone for strength because the glue will fail in tension rather easily. A gusset plate glue line will be loaded in shear and is enormouslystrong in this loading configuration. In the clusters at the landing gear attachments, it is common practice to use corner blocks, and the com-bination of gussets and corner blocks will give you maximum strength.In addition, corner blocks prevent the accumulation of dirt and mois-ture in the joint cluster, particularly at the lower longerons.Glue lines, rivets and welds must be loaded in shear in structures inorder to produce a reliable joint. If you examine aircraft structures, thispractice will be evident.The butt joints should be properly fitted so that they will handle com-pressive forces efficiently, but the glue line there really does only twothings: it holds the parts together until the gussets and sheeting arein place, and it seals the joint to prevent the intrusion of moisture.Follow the good advice given by others regarding glue joint preparationand make some samples of joints with gussets. Test them, and stop worrying.Cheers,Graham________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: on butt-joints, sanding, and banging your head against
Original Posted By: Bill Talbert
Richard;For piece of mind, test the fuse, but not todestruction. you won't sleep (or fly) otherwisetwo cents________________________________________________________________________________
Richard;For piece of mind, test the fuse, but not todestruction. you won't sleep (or fly) otherwisetwo cents________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: on butt-joints, sanding, and banging your head against
Original Posted By: Bill Talbert
Make that "peace of mind", no pun intended________________________________________________________________________________
Make that "peace of mind", no pun intended________________________________________________________________________________