Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Confused>Could someone please tell me the differance between the Pietenpol Air>Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper?>>>Bill>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Confused
Pietenpol-List: Confused
Original Posted By: MACKORELL(at)aol.com
Could someone please tell me the differance between the Pietenpol AirCamper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper? Bill________________________________________________________________________________
Could someone please tell me the differance between the Pietenpol AirCamper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper? Bill________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Confused
Original Posted By: tmbrant
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ConfusedThank you Don. I personally appreciate your comments, unlike some of theother comments recently. However I vowed to keep to myself on this subjectlong ago, so I'm back to the lurk mode.Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887http://www.mesquite-furniture.comrhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.comUvalde, Texas>Bravo Mike Cuy!! You outlined the Piet/GN-1 situation beautifully. MInewill>be mostly original (with concessions to safety) but any GN-1 driver that>wants to park his bird next to mine will be every bit as welcome as if it>were a Wright Flyer!!!>>Don Hicks .>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: ConfusedThank you Don. I personally appreciate your comments, unlike some of theother comments recently. However I vowed to keep to myself on this subjectlong ago, so I'm back to the lurk mode.Robert Hensarling GN-1 N83887http://www.mesquite-furniture.comrhrocker(at)admin.hilconet.comUvalde, Texas>Bravo Mike Cuy!! You outlined the Piet/GN-1 situation beautifully. MInewill>be mostly original (with concessions to safety) but any GN-1 driver that>wants to park his bird next to mine will be every bit as welcome as if it>were a Wright Flyer!!!>>Don Hicks .>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Confused
Original Posted By: william hutson
Bill; The St. Croix issue is a fella in Iowa that makes props. He has built 2 or3 Air Campers and a Scout. He sells wood kits for Piets as well as plans Iguess. The name St. Croix Aircamper is new to me unless it is just as above.The GN-1 and Air Camper are two TOTALLY different airplanes that share verysimilar appearances from a bit of a distance. Some of the other guys will nodoubt tell you the differances as a lot of them have GN-1s........Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Bill; The St. Croix issue is a fella in Iowa that makes props. He has built 2 or3 Air Campers and a Scout. He sells wood kits for Piets as well as plans Iguess. The name St. Croix Aircamper is new to me unless it is just as above.The GN-1 and Air Camper are two TOTALLY different airplanes that share verysimilar appearances from a bit of a distance. Some of the other guys will nodoubt tell you the differances as a lot of them have GN-1s........Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Confused
Original Posted By: John Weikel
>Could someone please tell me the differance between the Pietenpol Air>Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper? >>>BillBill- Let me start by saying that both the GN-1 and Pietenpol are FUN, FUN, open cockpit airplanes, however there are differences you should be aware ofbefore building. The Pietenpol was designed in the 1930's, the GN-1 in the 60's. The GN-1 usessome Cub parts to speed up completion time but as we know today these partsare more expensive and less abundant. The Pietenpol wing fittings allow thewing to be moved forwardand backward to accommodate various engines, fuel tank locations, etc. wheretheGN-1 has a 'fixed' position wing. If your CG turns out to be incorrect on theGN-1 youneed to either change the motor mount length or add ballast...on the Piet youmakeadjustments to the wing fore and aft position to make the CG fall where youneed it to.Piets generally have lighter empty weights and require lower horsepower as aresult.Most GN-1's have more than 65 Continentals on them, but not all....TedBrousseauhas a nice GN-1 that he flies with a 65.....and just got done doing a 3,300mile cross-country. The GN-1's have more metal fittings to fabricate and the parts appearto bemore stout than may be necessary. Likewise though, many Piet builders feelinclinedto 'beef up' part of their Piet design because to them it just didn't lookstrong enough, butin the end they are just increasing their empty weight and decreasingperformance.Bernard Pietenpol did not do widespread advertising of his design when theGN-1 plans becameavailable...and many who saw the ad's which read GN-1 Aircamper where logicallyled to thinkthat they were ordering plans or information for a Pietenpol Air Camper. Another reason so many GN-1 plans are out there is because they are dirt cheap,but comparatively speaking the price of Pietenpol plans when compared to otherdesigns on themarket are still a good bargain. There are some factions in the Piet/GN-1 world that tend to poke fun at eachother, sometimesin jest, sometimes serious, but those of us who are in it for fun just thinkthey need to get a life.Even within the Pietenpol enthusiast's world you will find those who think thatthe only Pietenpolis a so called 'original' Pietenpol complete with a Model A Ford engine and atailskid and no brakes.True that this was the first Pietenpol design, but not the last. To BernardPietenpol he merely hada first design and a twenty-sixth design...YES, he built 26 of these wonderfulairplanes and not onewas like the other. He experimented with Model T, Model A, Corvair,Continental, Lycoming, Velie,and many other engines over the years. Believe it or not Pietepol even builtand flew one witha radio, brakes, and tailwheel !! I'm sure that if Bernard were around todayhe would be pleased tosee Subaru's, Fiesta, and other engines now making his design more accessibleand affordable forall to have fun with.Mike C. Could someone please tell me the differance between the PietenpolAirCamper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper? BillBill- Let me start by saying that both the GN-1 and Pietenpol areFUN, FUN, open cockpit airplanes, however there are differences you should be awareofbefore building. The Pietenpol was designed in the 1930's, the GN-1 in the 60's. TheGN-1 usessome Cub parts to speed up completion time but as we know today thesepartsare more expensive and less abundant. The Pietenpol wing fittingsallow the wing to be moved forwardand backward to accommodate various engines, fuel tank locations, etc.where theGN-1 has a 'fixed' position wing. If your CG turns out to beincorrect on the GN-1 youneed to either change the motor mount length or add ballast...on the Pietyou makeadjustments to the wing fore and aft position to make the CG fall whereyou need it to.Piets generally have lighter empty weights and require lower horsepoweras a result.Most GN-1's have more than 65 Continentals on them, but not all....TedBrousseauhas a nice GN-1 that he flies with a 65.....and just got done doing a3,300 mile cross-country. The GN-1's have more metal fittings to fabricate and theparts appear to bemore stout than may be necessary. Likewise though, many Pietbuilders feel inclinedto 'beef up' part of their Piet design because to them it just didn'tlook strong enough, butin the end they are just increasing their empty weight and decreasingperformance.Bernard Pietenpol did not do widespread advertising of his designwhen the GN-1 plans becameavailable...and many who saw the ad's which read GN-1 Aircamper wherelogically led to thinkthat they were ordering plans or information for a Pietenpol AirCamper. Another reason so many GN-1 plans are out there is because they are dirtcheap, but comparatively speaking the price of Pietenpol plans when compared toother designs on themarket are still a good bargain. There are some factions in the Piet/GN-1 world that tend topoke fun at each other, sometimesin jest, sometimes serious, but those of us who are in it for fun justthink they need to get a life.Even within the Pietenpol enthusiast's world you will find those whothink that the only Pietenpolis a so called 'original' Pietenpol complete with a Model A Ford engineand a tailskid and no brakes.True that this was the first Pietenpol design, but not thelast. To Bernard Pietenpol he merely hada first design and a twenty-sixth design...YES, he built 26 ofthese wonderful airplanes and not onewas like the other. He experimented with Model T, Model A, Corvair,Continental, Lycoming, Velie,and many other engines over the years. Believe it or not Pietepoleven built and flew one witha radio, brakes, and tailwheel !! I'm sure that if Bernardwere around today he would be pleased tosee Subaru's, Fiesta, and other engines now making his design moreaccessible and affordable forall to have fun with.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
>Could someone please tell me the differance between the Pietenpol Air>Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper? >>>BillBill- Let me start by saying that both the GN-1 and Pietenpol are FUN, FUN, open cockpit airplanes, however there are differences you should be aware ofbefore building. The Pietenpol was designed in the 1930's, the GN-1 in the 60's. The GN-1 usessome Cub parts to speed up completion time but as we know today these partsare more expensive and less abundant. The Pietenpol wing fittings allow thewing to be moved forwardand backward to accommodate various engines, fuel tank locations, etc. wheretheGN-1 has a 'fixed' position wing. If your CG turns out to be incorrect on theGN-1 youneed to either change the motor mount length or add ballast...on the Piet youmakeadjustments to the wing fore and aft position to make the CG fall where youneed it to.Piets generally have lighter empty weights and require lower horsepower as aresult.Most GN-1's have more than 65 Continentals on them, but not all....TedBrousseauhas a nice GN-1 that he flies with a 65.....and just got done doing a 3,300mile cross-country. The GN-1's have more metal fittings to fabricate and the parts appearto bemore stout than may be necessary. Likewise though, many Piet builders feelinclinedto 'beef up' part of their Piet design because to them it just didn't lookstrong enough, butin the end they are just increasing their empty weight and decreasingperformance.Bernard Pietenpol did not do widespread advertising of his design when theGN-1 plans becameavailable...and many who saw the ad's which read GN-1 Aircamper where logicallyled to thinkthat they were ordering plans or information for a Pietenpol Air Camper. Another reason so many GN-1 plans are out there is because they are dirt cheap,but comparatively speaking the price of Pietenpol plans when compared to otherdesigns on themarket are still a good bargain. There are some factions in the Piet/GN-1 world that tend to poke fun at eachother, sometimesin jest, sometimes serious, but those of us who are in it for fun just thinkthey need to get a life.Even within the Pietenpol enthusiast's world you will find those who think thatthe only Pietenpolis a so called 'original' Pietenpol complete with a Model A Ford engine and atailskid and no brakes.True that this was the first Pietenpol design, but not the last. To BernardPietenpol he merely hada first design and a twenty-sixth design...YES, he built 26 of these wonderfulairplanes and not onewas like the other. He experimented with Model T, Model A, Corvair,Continental, Lycoming, Velie,and many other engines over the years. Believe it or not Pietepol even builtand flew one witha radio, brakes, and tailwheel !! I'm sure that if Bernard were around todayhe would be pleased tosee Subaru's, Fiesta, and other engines now making his design more accessibleand affordable forall to have fun with.Mike C. Could someone please tell me the differance between the PietenpolAirCamper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper? BillBill- Let me start by saying that both the GN-1 and Pietenpol areFUN, FUN, open cockpit airplanes, however there are differences you should be awareofbefore building. The Pietenpol was designed in the 1930's, the GN-1 in the 60's. TheGN-1 usessome Cub parts to speed up completion time but as we know today thesepartsare more expensive and less abundant. The Pietenpol wing fittingsallow the wing to be moved forwardand backward to accommodate various engines, fuel tank locations, etc.where theGN-1 has a 'fixed' position wing. If your CG turns out to beincorrect on the GN-1 youneed to either change the motor mount length or add ballast...on the Pietyou makeadjustments to the wing fore and aft position to make the CG fall whereyou need it to.Piets generally have lighter empty weights and require lower horsepoweras a result.Most GN-1's have more than 65 Continentals on them, but not all....TedBrousseauhas a nice GN-1 that he flies with a 65.....and just got done doing a3,300 mile cross-country. The GN-1's have more metal fittings to fabricate and theparts appear to bemore stout than may be necessary. Likewise though, many Pietbuilders feel inclinedto 'beef up' part of their Piet design because to them it just didn'tlook strong enough, butin the end they are just increasing their empty weight and decreasingperformance.Bernard Pietenpol did not do widespread advertising of his designwhen the GN-1 plans becameavailable...and many who saw the ad's which read GN-1 Aircamper wherelogically led to thinkthat they were ordering plans or information for a Pietenpol AirCamper. Another reason so many GN-1 plans are out there is because they are dirtcheap, but comparatively speaking the price of Pietenpol plans when compared toother designs on themarket are still a good bargain. There are some factions in the Piet/GN-1 world that tend topoke fun at each other, sometimesin jest, sometimes serious, but those of us who are in it for fun justthink they need to get a life.Even within the Pietenpol enthusiast's world you will find those whothink that the only Pietenpolis a so called 'original' Pietenpol complete with a Model A Ford engineand a tailskid and no brakes.True that this was the first Pietenpol design, but not thelast. To Bernard Pietenpol he merely hada first design and a twenty-sixth design...YES, he built 26 ofthese wonderful airplanes and not onewas like the other. He experimented with Model T, Model A, Corvair,Continental, Lycoming, Velie,and many other engines over the years. Believe it or not Pietepoleven built and flew one witha radio, brakes, and tailwheel !! I'm sure that if Bernardwere around today he would be pleased tosee Subaru's, Fiesta, and other engines now making his design moreaccessible and affordable forall to have fun with.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Confused
Original Posted By: william hutson
Michael, Thank you so much for your response. The information you providedhas helped alot.Bill--- Michael D Cuy wrote:> >Could someone please tell me the differance between> the Pietenpol Air> >Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix> Aircamper? > >> >> >Bill> > > Bill- Let me start by saying that both the GN-1 and> Pietenpol are FUN, FUN, > open cockpit airplanes, however there are> differences you should be aware of> before building. > > The Pietenpol was designed in the 1930's, the GN-1> in the 60's. The GN-1 uses> some Cub parts to speed up completion time but as we> know today these parts> are more expensive and less abundant. The Pietenpol> wing fittings allow the> wing to be moved forward> and backward to accommodate various engines, fuel> tank locations, etc. where> the> GN-1 has a 'fixed' position wing. If your CG turns> out to be incorrect on the> GN-1 you> need to either change the motor mount length or add> ballast...on the Piet you> make> adjustments to the wing fore and aft position to> make the CG fall where you> need it to.> Piets generally have lighter empty weights and> require lower horsepower as a> result.> Most GN-1's have more than 65 Continentals on them,> but not all....Ted> Brousseau> has a nice GN-1 that he flies with a 65.....and just> got done doing a 3,300> mile cross-> country. The GN-1's have more metal fittings to> fabricate and the parts appear> to be> more stout than may be necessary. Likewise though,> many Piet builders feel> inclined> to 'beef up' part of their Piet design because to> them it just didn't look> strong enough, but> in the end they are just increasing their empty> weight and decreasing> performance.> Bernard Pietenpol did not do widespread advertising> of his design when the> GN-1 plans became> available...and many who saw the ad's which read> GN-1 Aircamper where logically> led to think> that they were ordering plans or information for a> Pietenpol Air Camper. > Another reason so many GN-1 plans are out there is> because they are dirt cheap,> but > comparatively speaking the price of Pietenpol plans> when compared to other> designs on the> market are still a good bargain. > There are some factions in the Piet/GN-1 world> that tend to poke fun at each> other, sometimes> in jest, sometimes serious, but those of us who are> in it for fun just think> they need to get a life.> Even within the Pietenpol enthusiast's world you> will find those who think that> the only Pietenpol> is a so called 'original' Pietenpol complete with a> Model A Ford engine and a> tailskid and no brakes.> True that this was the first Pietenpol design, but> not the last. To Bernard> Pietenpol he merely had> a first design and a twenty-sixth design...YES, he> built 26 of these wonderful> airplanes and not one> was like the other. He experimented with Model T,> Model A, Corvair,> Continental, Lycoming, Velie,> and many other engines over the years. Believe it> or not Pietepol even built> and flew one with> a radio, brakes, and tailwheel !! I'm sure that if> Bernard were around today> he would be pleased to> see Subaru's, Fiesta, and other engines now making> his design more accessible> and affordable for> all to have fun with.> > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Michael, Thank you so much for your response. The information you providedhas helped alot.Bill--- Michael D Cuy wrote:> >Could someone please tell me the differance between> the Pietenpol Air> >Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix> Aircamper? > >> >> >Bill> > > Bill- Let me start by saying that both the GN-1 and> Pietenpol are FUN, FUN, > open cockpit airplanes, however there are> differences you should be aware of> before building. > > The Pietenpol was designed in the 1930's, the GN-1> in the 60's. The GN-1 uses> some Cub parts to speed up completion time but as we> know today these parts> are more expensive and less abundant. The Pietenpol> wing fittings allow the> wing to be moved forward> and backward to accommodate various engines, fuel> tank locations, etc. where> the> GN-1 has a 'fixed' position wing. If your CG turns> out to be incorrect on the> GN-1 you> need to either change the motor mount length or add> ballast...on the Piet you> make> adjustments to the wing fore and aft position to> make the CG fall where you> need it to.> Piets generally have lighter empty weights and> require lower horsepower as a> result.> Most GN-1's have more than 65 Continentals on them,> but not all....Ted> Brousseau> has a nice GN-1 that he flies with a 65.....and just> got done doing a 3,300> mile cross-> country. The GN-1's have more metal fittings to> fabricate and the parts appear> to be> more stout than may be necessary. Likewise though,> many Piet builders feel> inclined> to 'beef up' part of their Piet design because to> them it just didn't look> strong enough, but> in the end they are just increasing their empty> weight and decreasing> performance.> Bernard Pietenpol did not do widespread advertising> of his design when the> GN-1 plans became> available...and many who saw the ad's which read> GN-1 Aircamper where logically> led to think> that they were ordering plans or information for a> Pietenpol Air Camper. > Another reason so many GN-1 plans are out there is> because they are dirt cheap,> but > comparatively speaking the price of Pietenpol plans> when compared to other> designs on the> market are still a good bargain. > There are some factions in the Piet/GN-1 world> that tend to poke fun at each> other, sometimes> in jest, sometimes serious, but those of us who are> in it for fun just think> they need to get a life.> Even within the Pietenpol enthusiast's world you> will find those who think that> the only Pietenpol> is a so called 'original' Pietenpol complete with a> Model A Ford engine and a> tailskid and no brakes.> True that this was the first Pietenpol design, but> not the last. To Bernard> Pietenpol he merely had> a first design and a twenty-sixth design...YES, he> built 26 of these wonderful> airplanes and not one> was like the other. He experimented with Model T,> Model A, Corvair,> Continental, Lycoming, Velie,> and many other engines over the years. Believe it> or not Pietepol even built> and flew one with> a radio, brakes, and tailwheel !! I'm sure that if> Bernard were around today> he would be pleased to> see Subaru's, Fiesta, and other engines now making> his design more accessible> and affordable for> all to have fun with.> > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Confused
Original Posted By:> william hutson
Earl, Thank you for the info. It has helped clear up my confusion.Bill--- Earl Myers wrote:> Bill;> The St. Croix issue is a fella in Iowa that makes> props. He has built 2 or> 3 Air Campers and a Scout. He sells wood kits for> Piets as well as plans I> guess. The name St. Croix Aircamper is new to me> unless it is just as above.> The GN-1 and Air Camper are two TOTALLY different> airplanes that share very> similar appearances from a bit of a distance. Some> of the other guys will no> doubt tell you the differances as a lot of them have> GN-1s........> Earl Myers> -----Original Message-----
Earl, Thank you for the info. It has helped clear up my confusion.Bill--- Earl Myers wrote:> Bill;> The St. Croix issue is a fella in Iowa that makes> props. He has built 2 or> 3 Air Campers and a Scout. He sells wood kits for> Piets as well as plans I> guess. The name St. Croix Aircamper is new to me> unless it is just as above.> The GN-1 and Air Camper are two TOTALLY different> airplanes that share very> similar appearances from a bit of a distance. Some> of the other guys will no> doubt tell you the differances as a lot of them have> GN-1s........> Earl Myers> -----Original Message-----
> Confused
Original Posted By: Greg Yotz
re: various plansDon Pietenpol = Orin Hoopman plans (considered "THE SOURCE" for original andsupported (meaning supplemental plans, handbook, etc) Genuine PIETENPOL AirCamper plans)GN-1 = John Grega's Pietenpol look-a-like often mistaken for Genuine"Pietenpol Air Camper" Aircamper.St. Croix = Orin Hoopman plans. without support or supplement, "to the bestof my knowledge plagiarized the out of copyright 1933 plans set." I'm notsure if they even sell them anymore with the resurgence of interest in thedesign.My suggestion is to buy and build from the Pietenpol family plans found atwww.pietenpol.com. I agree wholeheartedly with Mike Cuy's assessment of themany versions flying however, and have found that flying either or any ofthe above versions has very little to do with the personality of the variouspilots.
better make that a double ).Steve EldredgeSteve(at)byu.edu> -----Original Message-----> william hutson> Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 7:50 PM> To: Pietenpol Discussion> Subject: Confused>>> Could someone please tell me the differance between the Pietenpol Air> Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper?>>> Bill>> >>________________________________________________________________________________
re: various plansDon Pietenpol = Orin Hoopman plans (considered "THE SOURCE" for original andsupported (meaning supplemental plans, handbook, etc) Genuine PIETENPOL AirCamper plans)GN-1 = John Grega's Pietenpol look-a-like often mistaken for Genuine"Pietenpol Air Camper" Aircamper.St. Croix = Orin Hoopman plans. without support or supplement, "to the bestof my knowledge plagiarized the out of copyright 1933 plans set." I'm notsure if they even sell them anymore with the resurgence of interest in thedesign.My suggestion is to buy and build from the Pietenpol family plans found atwww.pietenpol.com. I agree wholeheartedly with Mike Cuy's assessment of themany versions flying however, and have found that flying either or any ofthe above versions has very little to do with the personality of the variouspilots.
better make that a double ).Steve EldredgeSteve(at)byu.edu> -----Original Message-----> william hutson> Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 7:50 PM> To: Pietenpol Discussion> Subject: Confused>>> Could someone please tell me the differance between the Pietenpol Air> Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix Aircamper?>>> Bill>> >>________________________________________________________________________________Pietenpol-List: Re: Confused
Original Posted By: TXTdragger(at)aol.com
Bravo Mike Cuy!! You outlined the Piet/GN-1 situation beautifully. MIne will be mostly original (with concessions to safety) but any GN-1 driver that wants to park his bird next to mine will be every bit as welcome as if it were a Wright Flyer!!!Don Hicks .________________________________________________________________________________
Bravo Mike Cuy!! You outlined the Piet/GN-1 situation beautifully. MIne will be mostly original (with concessions to safety) but any GN-1 driver that wants to park his bird next to mine will be every bit as welcome as if it were a Wright Flyer!!!Don Hicks .________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Confused
Original Posted By: DonanClara(at)aol.com
-----Original Message-----
-----Original Message-----
> Confused
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
> Subject: Confused> > > >Could someone please tell me the differance between> the Pietenpol Air> >Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix> Aircamper?> >> >> >Bill> >> >> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at> http://mail.yahoo.com> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Confused> > > >Could someone please tell me the differance between> the Pietenpol Air> >Camper, the GN-1 Air Camper, and the St. Croix> Aircamper?> >> >> >Bill> >> >> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at> http://mail.yahoo.com> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________