Original Posted By: walter evans
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars>>>Thanks Walter>>Do you have any concerns about reducing the tensile strength of the cap>strips? I guess this would only be a problem if you were>pulling negative G's.>>Marc Davis>---------------------------------------------------------------------------->Marc,>I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs made from the full sizedprint,>supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece to clean up all the spar>slots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and found this. Instead ofbeveling>the spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filed it out. Only took a>few minutes each. now all the ribs are glued to spars. I'm not sure what>changed from the original concept, but thats the way I delt with it.>walt>-------------------------------->> >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was to>use>thus> >as a template for the rib jig. It also> >helps me understand how things go together. I found two small>problems> >that I wonder if others have found.> >> >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I miss>something?> >> >> >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of>the foil> >the plans show the height if the top of the> >last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line.>I guess> >you could just follow the curve.> >> >Thanks Marc Davis> >>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Ribs and spars
Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars>>>Thanks Walter>>Do you have any concerns about reducing the tensile strength of the cap>strips? I guess this would only be a problem if you were>pulling negative G's.>>Marc Davis>---------------------------------------------------------------------------->Marc,>I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs made from the full sizedprint,>supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece to clean up all the spar>slots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and found this. Instead ofbeveling>the spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filed it out. Only took a>few minutes each. now all the ribs are glued to spars. I'm not sure what>changed from the original concept, but thats the way I delt with it.>walt>-------------------------------->> >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was to>use>thus> >as a template for the rib jig. It also> >helps me understand how things go together. I found two small>problems> >that I wonder if others have found.> >> >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I miss>something?> >> >> >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of>the foil> >the plans show the height if the top of the> >last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line.>I guess> >you could just follow the curve.> >> >Thanks Marc Davis> >>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars>>>Thanks Walter>>Do you have any concerns about reducing the tensile strength of the cap>strips? I guess this would only be a problem if you were>pulling negative G's.>>Marc Davis>---------------------------------------------------------------------------->Marc,>I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs made from the full sizedprint,>supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece to clean up all the spar>slots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and found this. Instead ofbeveling>the spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filed it out. Only took a>few minutes each. now all the ribs are glued to spars. I'm not sure what>changed from the original concept, but thats the way I delt with it.>walt>-------------------------------->> >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was to>use>thus> >as a template for the rib jig. It also> >helps me understand how things go together. I found two small>problems> >that I wonder if others have found.> >> >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I miss>something?> >> >> >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of>the foil> >the plans show the height if the top of the> >last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line.>I guess> >you could just follow the curve.> >> >Thanks Marc Davis> >>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: "Davis, Marc"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs and spars>Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was to usethus>as a template for the rib jig. It also>helps me understand how things go together. I found two small problems>that I wonder if others have found.>>I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I misssomething?>>>There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of the foil>the plans show the height if the top of the>last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line. I guess>you could just follow the curve.>>Thanks Marc Davis>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Ribs and spars>Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was to usethus>as a template for the rib jig. It also>helps me understand how things go together. I found two small problems>that I wonder if others have found.>>I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I misssomething?>>>There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of the foil>the plans show the height if the top of the>last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line. I guess>you could just follow the curve.>>Thanks Marc Davis>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was to use thusas a template for the rib jig. It also helps me understand how things go together. I found two small problemsthat I wonder if others have found.I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I miss something?There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of the foilthe plans show the height if the top of the last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line. I guessyou could just follow the curve.Thanks Marc Davis________________________________________________________________________________
Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was to use thusas a template for the rib jig. It also helps me understand how things go together. I found two small problemsthat I wonder if others have found.I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I miss something?There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of the foilthe plans show the height if the top of the last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line. I guessyou could just follow the curve.Thanks Marc Davis________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: Davis, Marc
Marc,I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs made from the full sized print,supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece to clean up all the sparslots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and found this. Instead of bevelingthe spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filed it out. Only took afew minutes each. now all the ribs are glued to spars. I'm not sure what changed from the original concept, but thats the way Idelt with it.walt-----Original Message-----
Marc,I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs made from the full sized print,supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece to clean up all the sparslots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and found this. Instead of bevelingthe spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filed it out. Only took afew minutes each. now all the ribs are glued to spars. I'm not sure what changed from the original concept, but thats the way Idelt with it.walt-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: David Scott
Thanks WalterDo you have any concerns about reducing the tensile strength of the capstrips? I guess this would only be a problem if you were pulling negative G's. Marc Davis----------------------------------------------------------------------------Marc,I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs made from the full sized print,supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece to clean up all the sparslots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and found this. Instead of bevelingthe spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filed it out. Only took afew minutes each. now all the ribs are glued to spars. I'm not sure whatchanged from the original concept, but thats the way I delt with it.walt-------------------------------- >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was tousethus >as a template for the rib jig. It also >helps me understand how things go together. I found two smallproblems >that I wonder if others have found. > >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I misssomething? > > >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front ofthe foil >the plans show the height if the top of the >last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line.I guess >you could just follow the curve. > >Thanks Marc Davis >________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks WalterDo you have any concerns about reducing the tensile strength of the capstrips? I guess this would only be a problem if you were pulling negative G's. Marc Davis----------------------------------------------------------------------------Marc,I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs made from the full sized print,supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece to clean up all the sparslots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and found this. Instead of bevelingthe spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filed it out. Only took afew minutes each. now all the ribs are glued to spars. I'm not sure whatchanged from the original concept, but thats the way I delt with it.walt-------------------------------- >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cad package. My Idea was tousethus >as a template for the rib jig. It also >helps me understand how things go together. I found two smallproblems >that I wonder if others have found. > >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in the rib. Did I misssomething? > > >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front ofthe foil >the plans show the height if the top of the >last station but not the height of the foil above the datum line.I guess >you could just follow the curve. > >Thanks Marc Davis >________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
that was my thought exactly. we are playing with a major structural componant here. I think I would havenotched or beveled the spar instead. of course theglue makes it a part of the spar. just my thinking, Iwould check with somebody with more experience than me.---"Davis, Marc" wrote:>> > > Thanks Walter> > Do you have any concerns about reducing the tensilestrength of the cap> strips? I guess this would only be a problem ifyou were > pulling negative G's. > > Marc Davis>----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Marc,> I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs madefrom the full sized print,> supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece toclean up all the spar> slots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and foundthis. Instead of beveling> the spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filedit out. Only took a> few minutes each. now all the ribs are glued tospars. I'm not sure what> changed from the original concept, but thats theway I delt with it.> walt> --------------------------------> > >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cadpackage. My Idea was to> use> thus> >as a template for the rib jig. It also> >helps me understand how things go together. Ifound two small> problems> >that I wonder if others have found.> >> >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in therib. Did I miss> something?> >> >> >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of> the foil> >the plans show the height if the top of the> >last station but not the height of the foil abovethe datum line.> I guess> >you could just follow the curve.> >> >Thanks Marc Davis> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
that was my thought exactly. we are playing with a major structural componant here. I think I would havenotched or beveled the spar instead. of course theglue makes it a part of the spar. just my thinking, Iwould check with somebody with more experience than me.---"Davis, Marc" wrote:>> > > Thanks Walter> > Do you have any concerns about reducing the tensilestrength of the cap> strips? I guess this would only be a problem ifyou were > pulling negative G's. > > Marc Davis>----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Marc,> I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs madefrom the full sized print,> supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece toclean up all the spar> slots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and foundthis. Instead of beveling> the spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filedit out. Only took a> few minutes each. now all the ribs are glued tospars. I'm not sure what> changed from the original concept, but thats theway I delt with it.> walt> --------------------------------> > >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cadpackage. My Idea was to> use> thus> >as a template for the rib jig. It also> >helps me understand how things go together. Ifound two small> problems> >that I wonder if others have found.> >> >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in therib. Did I miss> something?> >> >> >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of> the foil> >the plans show the height if the top of the> >last station but not the height of the foil abovethe datum line.> I guess> >you could just follow the curve.> >> >Thanks Marc Davis> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Marc,We ran into the same problem and we tapered the top of the aft spar tofit. Not that much wood was removed and as we are using the 1" sparinstead of the 3/4" a lot of guys are using, we're not concerned. Thewing really looks great with all the ribs slid on.John Langston__________________________________________________________________________________________
Marc,We ran into the same problem and we tapered the top of the aft spar tofit. Not that much wood was removed and as we are using the 1" sparinstead of the 3/4" a lot of guys are using, we're not concerned. Thewing really looks great with all the ribs slid on.John Langston__________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: walter evans
JohnThanks for the feed back. When building up your spar did you give anythought to the idea of a built up spar instead of a solid one? Findingonepiece of wood long and nice enough for a spar seems like a challenge.Marc Davis-----------------------------------------------------------------Marc,We ran into the same problem and we tapered the top of the aft spar tofit.Not that much wood was removed and as we are using the 1" spar insteadofthe =BE" a lot of guys are using, we're not concerned. The wing reallylooksgreat with all the ribs slid on.John Langston__________ .________________________________________________________________________________
JohnThanks for the feed back. When building up your spar did you give anythought to the idea of a built up spar instead of a solid one? Findingonepiece of wood long and nice enough for a spar seems like a challenge.Marc Davis-----------------------------------------------------------------Marc,We ran into the same problem and we tapered the top of the aft spar tofit.Not that much wood was removed and as we are using the 1" spar insteadofthe =BE" a lot of guys are using, we're not concerned. The wing reallylooksgreat with all the ribs slid on.John Langston__________ .________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: Davis, Marc
Marc,That crossed my mind, but I keep thinking about Tony B.'s book that showshigh performance airplanes where the wing is built with ribs in threepieces , nailed and glued to the front,,,,, center,,,,, and rear of thespars( the ribs are in three separate pieces) they don't seem to come apart.I thought that when I filed out the first one , that the rib would go out ofshape, but it didn't.walt-----Original Message-----
Marc,That crossed my mind, but I keep thinking about Tony B.'s book that showshigh performance airplanes where the wing is built with ribs in threepieces , nailed and glued to the front,,,,, center,,,,, and rear of thespars( the ribs are in three separate pieces) they don't seem to come apart.I thought that when I filed out the first one , that the rib would go out ofshape, but it didn't.walt-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: Michael Brusilow
The ribs are pretty overbuilt and I doubt a little notch that is subsequentlyjoined to the spar with glue will be missed at all. Notching the sparhowever, would be taking away wood from the highest stressed point of spar, thetop cap strip. I think that Walt is right on in his thinking.Mike BellColumbia, SCMaiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/13/99 06:30:47 PMPlease respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNETcc:Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and sparsthat was my thought exactly. we are playing with amajor structural componant here. I think I would havenotched or beveled the spar instead. of course theglue makes it a part of the spar. just my thinking, Iwould check with somebody with more experience than me.---"Davis, Marc" wrote:>>> Thanks Walter>> Do you have any concerns about reducing the tensilestrength of the cap> strips? I guess this would only be a problem ifyou were> pulling negative G's.>> Marc Davis>----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Marc,> I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs madefrom the full sized print,> supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece toclean up all the spar> slots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and foundthis. Instead of beveling> the spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filedit out. Only took a> few minutes each. now all the ribs are glued tospars. I'm not sure what> changed from the original concept, but thats theway I delt with it.> walt> -------------------------------->> >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cadpackage. My Idea was to> use> thus> >as a template for the rib jig. It also> >helps me understand how things go together. Ifound two small> problems> >that I wonder if others have found.> >> >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in therib. Did I miss> something?> >> >> >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of> the foil> >the plans show the height if the top of the> >last station but not the height of the foil abovethe datum line.> I guess> >you could just follow the curve.> >> >Thanks Marc Davis> >>________________________________________________________________________________
The ribs are pretty overbuilt and I doubt a little notch that is subsequentlyjoined to the spar with glue will be missed at all. Notching the sparhowever, would be taking away wood from the highest stressed point of spar, thetop cap strip. I think that Walt is right on in his thinking.Mike BellColumbia, SCMaiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 09/13/99 06:30:47 PMPlease respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNETcc:Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and sparsthat was my thought exactly. we are playing with amajor structural componant here. I think I would havenotched or beveled the spar instead. of course theglue makes it a part of the spar. just my thinking, Iwould check with somebody with more experience than me.---"Davis, Marc" wrote:>>> Thanks Walter>> Do you have any concerns about reducing the tensilestrength of the cap> strips? I guess this would only be a problem ifyou were> pulling negative G's.>> Marc Davis>----------------------------------------------------------------------------> Marc,> I ran into this just last week. Had all ribs madefrom the full sized print,> supplied by Don P. Used a "dummy " spar piece toclean up all the spar> slots where the spar goes thru the ribs, and foundthis. Instead of beveling> the spar top, I drew the notch on the rib and filedit out. Only took a> few minutes each. now all the ribs are glued tospars. I'm not sure what> changed from the original concept, but thats theway I delt with it.> walt> -------------------------------->> >Last night I drew the wing rib up on a cadpackage. My Idea was to> use> thus> >as a template for the rib jig. It also> >helps me understand how things go together. Ifound two small> problems> >that I wonder if others have found.> >> >I seems as though the rear spar won't fit in therib. Did I miss> something?> >> >> >There is a demintion missing on the foil section. At the front of> the foil> >the plans show the height if the top of the> >last station but not the height of the foil abovethe datum line.> I guess> >you could just follow the curve.> >> >Thanks Marc Davis> >>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Marc,We did talk about using a built-up spar but decided not to. We've read somuch about not changing the plans that we decided to go ahead with theoriginal method. We did buy certified wood from Alexander AircraftSupply, ordering 4 pieces of 1" X 6" X 16' and glued two of them togetherto form the spar. Obviously, we are making the one piece wing to saveweight. A change we did do, though, is that we spliced the spar per A.C.43-13-1A instaed of as the plans show. We made a 10:1 splice and thiswith the gussets all fit within the fuel tank bay. Also we are install1/8" gussets under the wing attach fittings as per more modern methods.Routing the spars also took a lot of weight off and it was obvious whenwe picked up the spars upon completion.__________________________________________________________________________________________
Marc,We did talk about using a built-up spar but decided not to. We've read somuch about not changing the plans that we decided to go ahead with theoriginal method. We did buy certified wood from Alexander AircraftSupply, ordering 4 pieces of 1" X 6" X 16' and glued two of them togetherto form the spar. Obviously, we are making the one piece wing to saveweight. A change we did do, though, is that we spliced the spar per A.C.43-13-1A instaed of as the plans show. We made a 10:1 splice and thiswith the gussets all fit within the fuel tank bay. Also we are install1/8" gussets under the wing attach fittings as per more modern methods.Routing the spars also took a lot of weight off and it was obvious whenwe picked up the spars upon completion.__________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Ribs and spars
Original Posted By: walter evans [SMTP:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
Good point Walter, Lots to think about here.Marc-----Original Message-----
Good point Walter, Lots to think about here.Marc-----Original Message-----