Original Posted By: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers;> Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you>installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture>directly if one is available.> I suspect the US.regs might be different.> Thanks in advance.>Doug Hunt>C-GCGJ>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
> Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: del magsam
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>Hi Doug>>Way back in the dark ages (aircamper days ) we didnt have to have>shoulder harneses....all that came in about 95-95>>I was thinking of using a cable run from the tail, along the fuse, througha>pulley and across the center with another pulley or 2. then the same down>the other side. Attatch the 'y' harness to this cable.>>Nice thin about the setup is it cuts the load on each attatch point in 1/2>over a single point installation-easier on the airframe.>>I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or not>it would actually work.>>Mike>-----Original Message----->From: Doug >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:19 PM>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>>>>>To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers;>> Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you>>installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture>>directly if one is available.>> I suspect the US.regs might be different.>> Thanks in advance.>>Doug Hunt>>C-GCGJ>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:36:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>Hi Doug>>Way back in the dark ages (aircamper days ) we didnt have to have>shoulder harneses....all that came in about 95-95>>I was thinking of using a cable run from the tail, along the fuse, througha>pulley and across the center with another pulley or 2. then the same down>the other side. Attatch the 'y' harness to this cable.>>Nice thin about the setup is it cuts the load on each attatch point in 1/2>over a single point installation-easier on the airframe.>>I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or not>it would actually work.>>Mike>-----Original Message----->From: Doug >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 11:19 PM>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>>>>>To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers;>> Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If you>>installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picture>>directly if one is available.>> I suspect the US.regs might be different.>> Thanks in advance.>>Doug Hunt>>C-GCGJ>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:36:36 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Mike Lund"
To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If youinstalled shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picturedirectly if one is available. I suspect the US.regs might be different. Thanks in advance.Doug HuntC-GCGJ________________________________________________________________________________
To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers; Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?If youinstalled shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me a picturedirectly if one is available. I suspect the US.regs might be different. Thanks in advance.Doug HuntC-GCGJ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Doug
Hi DougWay back in the dark ages (aircamper days ) we didnt have to haveshoulder harneses....all that came in about 95-95I was thinking of using a cable run from the tail, along the fuse, through apulley and across the center with another pulley or 2. then the same downthe other side. Attatch the 'y' harness to this cable.Nice thin about the setup is it cuts the load on each attatch point in 1/2over a single point installation-easier on the airframe.I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or notit would actually work.Mike-----Original Message-----
Hi DougWay back in the dark ages (aircamper days ) we didnt have to haveshoulder harneses....all that came in about 95-95I was thinking of using a cable run from the tail, along the fuse, through apulley and across the center with another pulley or 2. then the same downthe other side. Attatch the 'y' harness to this cable.Nice thin about the setup is it cuts the load on each attatch point in 1/2over a single point installation-easier on the airframe.I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether or notit would actually work.Mike-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Mike Lund
Hi Doug I know I keep refering to the DH 82a, but Mikes description is verysimilar to what De Havilland did. The cable crosses the fuse just behind thefront seat back and the shoulder harness is fastened to it with smallpulleys. I wonder if the pulleys would try to move together if the cablecould stretch? One advantage of this method is that the width between theshoulder straps is self adjusting. I haven't taken a really good look underthe cowling between the 'pits, but I imagine that there must be a crosspiece able to withstand a high compressive load.John Mc-----Original Message-----
Hi Doug I know I keep refering to the DH 82a, but Mikes description is verysimilar to what De Havilland did. The cable crosses the fuse just behind thefront seat back and the shoulder harness is fastened to it with smallpulleys. I wonder if the pulleys would try to move together if the cablecould stretch? One advantage of this method is that the width between theshoulder straps is self adjusting. I haven't taken a really good look underthe cowling between the 'pits, but I imagine that there must be a crosspiece able to withstand a high compressive load.John Mc-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: del magsam
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re:Laughlin fly-in ?
Original Posted By: Rodger & Betty
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
Mike,I credit my life to the 1/8" cable fixed to the tailwheel bolt. The cablecame forward to the first bay aft of the pilots seat. There it was fixed toa steel frame. The frame was screwed (small screws) to a cross member, therewas no inherent strength in the frame , it was used to hold a fitting justthrough the aircraft skin. I used a baby seat fitting that would be used toattach the seat to a car. It worked great. The shoulder harness could thenattach to this fitting and was removable. I meant to pass this along andwhen I saw your posting it reminded me.I also saw a failed shoulder harness set-up. It was on a Canadian Piet. thatcrashed from about 50 feet high. The anchors collapsed inward at the firstcluster behind the pilot.Domenic________________________________________________________________________________
Mike,I credit my life to the 1/8" cable fixed to the tailwheel bolt. The cablecame forward to the first bay aft of the pilots seat. There it was fixed toa steel frame. The frame was screwed (small screws) to a cross member, therewas no inherent strength in the frame , it was used to hold a fitting justthrough the aircraft skin. I used a baby seat fitting that would be used toattach the seat to a car. It worked great. The shoulder harness could thenattach to this fitting and was removable. I meant to pass this along andwhen I saw your posting it reminded me.I also saw a failed shoulder harness set-up. It was on a Canadian Piet. thatcrashed from about 50 feet high. The anchors collapsed inward at the firstcluster behind the pilot.Domenic________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: vistin(at)juno.com
Hi Doug,I installed both. I attached it to the 1/8 " cross wires just behind thepassengers head.Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Doug,I installed both. I attached it to the 1/8 " cross wires just behind thepassengers head.Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: vistin(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessI would like more information on your shoulder harness setup. Maybe youhave pictures?Steve writes:> > > Mike,> > I credit my life to the 1/8" cable fixed to the tailwheel bolt. The > cable> came forward to the first bay aft of the pilots seat. There it was > fixed to> a steel frame. The frame was screwed (small screws) to a cross > member, there> was no inherent strength in the frame , it was used to hold a > fitting just> through the aircraft skin. I used a baby seat fitting that would be > used to> attach the seat to a car. It worked great. The shoulder harness > could then> attach to this fitting and was removable. I meant to pass this along > and> when I saw your posting it reminded me.> I also saw a failed shoulder harness set-up. It was on a Canadian > Piet. that> crashed from about 50 feet high. The anchors collapsed inward at the > first> cluster behind the pilot.> > Domenic> > > > > Steve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessI would like more information on your shoulder harness setup. Maybe youhave pictures?Steve writes:> > > Mike,> > I credit my life to the 1/8" cable fixed to the tailwheel bolt. The > cable> came forward to the first bay aft of the pilots seat. There it was > fixed to> a steel frame. The frame was screwed (small screws) to a cross > member, there> was no inherent strength in the frame , it was used to hold a > fitting just> through the aircraft skin. I used a baby seat fitting that would be > used to> attach the seat to a car. It worked great. The shoulder harness > could then> attach to this fitting and was removable. I meant to pass this along > and> when I saw your posting it reminded me.> I also saw a failed shoulder harness set-up. It was on a Canadian > Piet. that> crashed from about 50 feet high. The anchors collapsed inward at the > first> cluster behind the pilot.> > Domenic> > > > > Steve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> Mike Lund
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Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> John McNarry
Thanks John,maybe the answer.Doug----------
Thanks John,maybe the answer.Doug----------
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> Domenico Bellissimo
Hi Dom,would you have a pic.of this install?From what i gather your harnessis attached above the the rear instument panel just forward of thewindshield. Doug----------
Hi Dom,would you have a pic.of this install?From what i gather your harnessis attached above the the rear instument panel just forward of thewindshield. Doug----------
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
Steve,I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt that I have pictures frominside the fuselage though. I could make you a drawing, scan it and send itto you if you like.Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Steve,I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt that I have pictures frominside the fuselage though. I could make you a drawing, scan it and send itto you if you like.Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: vistin(at)juno.com
Doug,I don't have a picture of the front shoulder harness installation. The lapbelt is fixed to the ash cross member on the floor, but the shoulder harnessis just clipped on at the junction of the the two 1/8" cables just ahead ofthe rear windshield. I hadn't used the front yet because I only flew it 5hours.Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Doug,I don't have a picture of the front shoulder harness installation. The lapbelt is fixed to the ash cross member on the floor, but the shoulder harnessis just clipped on at the junction of the the two 1/8" cables just ahead ofthe rear windshield. I hadn't used the front yet because I only flew it 5hours.Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: LaurenMWilliams(at)webtv.net (Lauren Williams)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessDom:I would appreciate it!ThanksSteve writes:> > > Steve,> > I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt that I have > pictures from> inside the fuselage though. I could make you a drawing, scan it and > send it> to you if you like.> > Dom.> > > > > Steve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessDom:I would appreciate it!ThanksSteve writes:> > > Steve,> > I'll take a look if I have any pictures. I doubt that I have > pictures from> inside the fuselage though. I could make you a drawing, scan it and > send it> to you if you like.> > Dom.> > > > > Steve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> Domenico Bellissimo
Thanks Dom,would like that. Doug.----------
Thanks Dom,would like that. Doug.----------
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Joe Krzes"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>Mike,>I guess I delinquent again. I tried to draw a picture but it came out very>poor, so I'll try and explain in words what I did. I installed a MATCO>tailwheel/spring assembly (145.usd). I made a .090 thick 1X7" fitting>located onto the same Bolt that the tailwheel assembly is bolted to. Then,>at the first station (called the 'mid-support on the drawing) behind the>pilots seat (or 102.5 inches from the firewall (using the 1967supplementary>plans for the corvair version drawing), I made another fitting that looks>like an upside down "V". At the apex of the "V" which points to the rear>turtle deck stringers I bolted (don't weld this one) a fitting from a>child's car seat. This is the anchor part that one would bolt to the back>seat deck of the car. It was welded so the angled part faced forward. The>"V'" structure was made of 4130 chromoly and this "V" was totally below the>wood stingers. Only the angled part of the child's car seat fitting was on>top of the stringers. Now at the bottom of the upside down "V" a 90 degree>angle piece is welded on each tube end. Now drill a hole in each, place the>structure in place at the mid-support station and screw in place with a3/4">wood screw onto the cross member. Now you are ready to measure and cut a>length of 1/8 aircraft cable (less turnbuckle length) and install between>the tail and this structure. There doesn't have to be any strength in this>structure or the anchoring of it. Think of it as a point in space. Tighten>the turnbuckle to take up all the slack in the cable so that if you pluck>it, it gives you a solid feel (hard to explain this), anyway if you try to>move the fitting sticking out over top of the stringers, you'll find you>can't. Warning If you decide to use some other method, like bolting to the>side clusters, be aware the will not hold up. They tend to collapse inward.>Just ask Dick Burton. Sorry I couldn't make a drawing for you, and I haveno>photo's of this area of the plane. I closed the fuse before I thought of>taking pictures for documentation. Anyway I'm sure glad I did what I did. I>only got this idea after seeing Dick's wreck.>>Hope this is clear, and it can help everyone that wants to take advantageof>this idea.>>Regards,>Dom.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>Mike,>I guess I delinquent again. I tried to draw a picture but it came out very>poor, so I'll try and explain in words what I did. I installed a MATCO>tailwheel/spring assembly (145.usd). I made a .090 thick 1X7" fitting>located onto the same Bolt that the tailwheel assembly is bolted to. Then,>at the first station (called the 'mid-support on the drawing) behind the>pilots seat (or 102.5 inches from the firewall (using the 1967supplementary>plans for the corvair version drawing), I made another fitting that looks>like an upside down "V". At the apex of the "V" which points to the rear>turtle deck stringers I bolted (don't weld this one) a fitting from a>child's car seat. This is the anchor part that one would bolt to the back>seat deck of the car. It was welded so the angled part faced forward. The>"V'" structure was made of 4130 chromoly and this "V" was totally below the>wood stingers. Only the angled part of the child's car seat fitting was on>top of the stringers. Now at the bottom of the upside down "V" a 90 degree>angle piece is welded on each tube end. Now drill a hole in each, place the>structure in place at the mid-support station and screw in place with a3/4">wood screw onto the cross member. Now you are ready to measure and cut a>length of 1/8 aircraft cable (less turnbuckle length) and install between>the tail and this structure. There doesn't have to be any strength in this>structure or the anchoring of it. Think of it as a point in space. Tighten>the turnbuckle to take up all the slack in the cable so that if you pluck>it, it gives you a solid feel (hard to explain this), anyway if you try to>move the fitting sticking out over top of the stringers, you'll find you>can't. Warning If you decide to use some other method, like bolting to the>side clusters, be aware the will not hold up. They tend to collapse inward.>Just ask Dick Burton. Sorry I couldn't make a drawing for you, and I haveno>photo's of this area of the plane. I closed the fuse before I thought of>taking pictures for documentation. Anyway I'm sure glad I did what I did. I>only got this idea after seeing Dick's wreck.>>Hope this is clear, and it can help everyone that wants to take advantageof>this idea.>>Regards,>Dom.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Mike Lund"
Hi GuysI need to drill a locator hole to put the cable in for the shoulderharnesses before I glue the foam on.I just sat in (well, put my butt at seat level) and the base of my neck issmack in the center of the "headrest" fairing.(its not a bo-bo, I am so long in the body I knew it would look riducoulslyout of proportion if I did a full "headrest" headrest.How low can I go below the base of the neck without risking compressionfractures in the event of a sudden stop? anybody got experience designingthis location?MikeAirplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.The more money you throw at them,the faster they fly.IHA 110________________________________________________________________________________
Hi GuysI need to drill a locator hole to put the cable in for the shoulderharnesses before I glue the foam on.I just sat in (well, put my butt at seat level) and the base of my neck issmack in the center of the "headrest" fairing.(its not a bo-bo, I am so long in the body I knew it would look riducoulslyout of proportion if I did a full "headrest" headrest.How low can I go below the base of the neck without risking compressionfractures in the event of a sudden stop? anybody got experience designingthis location?MikeAirplanes dont fly on gas, they fly on money.The more money you throw at them,the faster they fly.IHA 110________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "mboynton(at)excite.com
Any at all below your shoulders will be a risk for compression of your backin a crash. The answer is, just do the best you can. Any shoulder harnessis better than nothing.________________________________________________________________________________
Any at all below your shoulders will be a risk for compression of your backin a crash. The answer is, just do the best you can. Any shoulder harnessis better than nothing.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
Mike,I guess I delinquent again. I tried to draw a picture but it came out verypoor, so I'll try and explain in words what I did. I installed a MATCOtailwheel/spring assembly (145.usd). I made a .090 thick 1X7" fittinglocated onto the same Bolt that the tailwheel assembly is bolted to. Then,at the first station (called the 'mid-support on the drawing) behind thepilots seat (or 102.5 inches from the firewall (using the 1967 supplementaryplans for the corvair version drawing), I made another fitting that lookslike an upside down "V". At the apex of the "V" which points to the rearturtle deck stringers I bolted (don't weld this one) a fitting from achild's car seat. This is the anchor part that one would bolt to the backseat deck of the car. It was welded so the angled part faced forward. The"V'" structure was made of 4130 chromoly and this "V" was totally below thewood stingers. Only the angled part of the child's car seat fitting was ontop of the stringers. Now at the bottom of the upside down "V" a 90 degreeangle piece is welded on each tube end. Now drill a hole in each, place thestructure in place at the mid-support station and screw in place with a 3/4"wood screw onto the cross member. Now you are ready to measure and cut alength of 1/8 aircraft cable (less turnbuckle length) and install betweenthe tail and this structure. There doesn't have to be any strength in thisstructure or the anchoring of it. Think of it as a point in space. Tightenthe turnbuckle to take up all the slack in the cable so that if you pluckit, it gives you a solid feel (hard to explain this), anyway if you try tomove the fitting sticking out over top of the stringers, you'll find youcan't. Warning If you decide to use some other method, like bolting to theside clusters, be aware the will not hold up. They tend to collapse inward.Just ask Dick Burton. Sorry I couldn't make a drawing for you, and I have nophoto's of this area of the plane. I closed the fuse before I thought oftaking pictures for documentation. Anyway I'm sure glad I did what I did. Ionly got this idea after seeing Dick's wreck.Hope this is clear, and it can help everyone that wants to take advantage ofthis idea.Regards,Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Mike,I guess I delinquent again. I tried to draw a picture but it came out verypoor, so I'll try and explain in words what I did. I installed a MATCOtailwheel/spring assembly (145.usd). I made a .090 thick 1X7" fittinglocated onto the same Bolt that the tailwheel assembly is bolted to. Then,at the first station (called the 'mid-support on the drawing) behind thepilots seat (or 102.5 inches from the firewall (using the 1967 supplementaryplans for the corvair version drawing), I made another fitting that lookslike an upside down "V". At the apex of the "V" which points to the rearturtle deck stringers I bolted (don't weld this one) a fitting from achild's car seat. This is the anchor part that one would bolt to the backseat deck of the car. It was welded so the angled part faced forward. The"V'" structure was made of 4130 chromoly and this "V" was totally below thewood stingers. Only the angled part of the child's car seat fitting was ontop of the stringers. Now at the bottom of the upside down "V" a 90 degreeangle piece is welded on each tube end. Now drill a hole in each, place thestructure in place at the mid-support station and screw in place with a 3/4"wood screw onto the cross member. Now you are ready to measure and cut alength of 1/8 aircraft cable (less turnbuckle length) and install betweenthe tail and this structure. There doesn't have to be any strength in thisstructure or the anchoring of it. Think of it as a point in space. Tightenthe turnbuckle to take up all the slack in the cable so that if you pluckit, it gives you a solid feel (hard to explain this), anyway if you try tomove the fitting sticking out over top of the stringers, you'll find youcan't. Warning If you decide to use some other method, like bolting to theside clusters, be aware the will not hold up. They tend to collapse inward.Just ask Dick Burton. Sorry I couldn't make a drawing for you, and I have nophoto's of this area of the plane. I closed the fuse before I thought oftaking pictures for documentation. Anyway I'm sure glad I did what I did. Ionly got this idea after seeing Dick's wreck.Hope this is clear, and it can help everyone that wants to take advantage ofthis idea.Regards,Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>At risk of opening another can of worms, it seems the Piet is of such>early design that a tidy shoulder harness installation would be>difficult.>>When I sit in our Piet, and I'm only 5'6" tall, about 4~5" of my>shoulder is above the top of the turtle deck. Likewise for the others>in our group. So we decided not to install a shoulder harness.>>I'm thinking that maybe two 1" sq pieces of wood, say D. Fir, with>one end on the lower longeron and meeting together above the turtle>deck (forming an inverted V) with a short 1 X 1 X 6" on top and with>wedges below and outboard to the brace it to the "V"s. Then the>harness could mount over this and go back down to some point in the>aft fuselage to anchor, with appropriate wedges and gussets to help>spread the load. Lord help us we never need to put it to the test.>This could or couldn't be covered with a fairing depending upon>personal tastes.>>This would get the anchor point above the pilot's shoulders to keep>the compression factor out of the picture, and it's not a pretty>picture.>>There again it's personal preference and we chose to stay with the>drawings to give our Piet an antique look to it.>>Rodger>Piet in progress (8 years into an 18 month project)>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:14:38 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness>>At risk of opening another can of worms, it seems the Piet is of such>early design that a tidy shoulder harness installation would be>difficult.>>When I sit in our Piet, and I'm only 5'6" tall, about 4~5" of my>shoulder is above the top of the turtle deck. Likewise for the others>in our group. So we decided not to install a shoulder harness.>>I'm thinking that maybe two 1" sq pieces of wood, say D. Fir, with>one end on the lower longeron and meeting together above the turtle>deck (forming an inverted V) with a short 1 X 1 X 6" on top and with>wedges below and outboard to the brace it to the "V"s. Then the>harness could mount over this and go back down to some point in the>aft fuselage to anchor, with appropriate wedges and gussets to help>spread the load. Lord help us we never need to put it to the test.>This could or couldn't be covered with a fairing depending upon>personal tastes.>>This would get the anchor point above the pilot's shoulders to keep>the compression factor out of the picture, and it's not a pretty>picture.>>There again it's personal preference and we chose to stay with the>drawings to give our Piet an antique look to it.>>Rodger>Piet in progress (8 years into an 18 month project)>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:14:38 -0700 (MST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Domenico Bellissimo
Thanks Dominic, its clear as mud Actually, I did a sketch by your description and it looks fairly easy to rigup. I am using the 1933 Scout type tail gear (double swing arm with acompression spring at the tailpost) but it'll be easy enough to adapt.Mike-----Original Message-----
Thanks Dominic, its clear as mud Actually, I did a sketch by your description and it looks fairly easy to rigup. I am using the 1933 Scout type tail gear (double swing arm with acompression spring at the tailpost) but it'll be easy enough to adapt.Mike-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Rodger & Betty
with the original turtledeck it would be impossible to do.I did mine with a built-in headres (like a Hatz, or the Centerfold of theScout in the 1933 FGM (now THATS a centerfold )Mike-----Original Message-----
with the original turtledeck it would be impossible to do.I did mine with a built-in headres (like a Hatz, or the Centerfold of theScout in the 1933 FGM (now THATS a centerfold )Mike-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Dan Exstrom
Just throwing something in on the subject,You can see a picture of how I did my rear seat harness here:http://aircamper.byu.edu/piet2.htmSteve ... ______Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:00:56 -0800
Just throwing something in on the subject,You can see a picture of how I did my rear seat harness here:http://aircamper.byu.edu/piet2.htmSteve ... ______Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 09:00:56 -0800
> Pietenpol-List: For Sale Cont. A 65
Original Posted By: Duane
Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Randall Henderson"
Greg,I sure did have a harness. It was anchored on the floor of the fuselage inthe tail section with a 1/8th cable. I attribute my life to that cable'sdirect in-line position. If only I had tightened the shoulder straps alittle tighter I would not have hit the front panel. Even with the harnessthe body stretches a little under force. I have seen another Pietenpol in anaccident from a 50 feet high stall. The shoulder straps were anchored at theclusters just aft of the pilots seat. The clusters let go completely fromthe force towards the inside. It's as though they weren't fastened at all.The pilot hit the panel hard, survived but needed surgery to his left eye.He had 30,000 hours of flight time. Mostly in a 747 but we won't hold thatagainst him. He has been to Brodhead many times. I don't think he hasrebuilt his Piet. either.Regards,Domenico________________________________________________________________________________
Greg,I sure did have a harness. It was anchored on the floor of the fuselage inthe tail section with a 1/8th cable. I attribute my life to that cable'sdirect in-line position. If only I had tightened the shoulder straps alittle tighter I would not have hit the front panel. Even with the harnessthe body stretches a little under force. I have seen another Pietenpol in anaccident from a 50 feet high stall. The shoulder straps were anchored at theclusters just aft of the pilots seat. The clusters let go completely fromthe force towards the inside. It's as though they weren't fastened at all.The pilot hit the panel hard, survived but needed surgery to his left eye.He had 30,000 hours of flight time. Mostly in a 747 but we won't hold thatagainst him. He has been to Brodhead many times. I don't think he hasrebuilt his Piet. either.Regards,Domenico________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
Shoulder harness attachment is one of the things holding up my covering ofthe fuselage. I was considering an 1/8" cable to the stern post or a plateto the floor of the fuse near the stern post. You don't have any picturesdo you? Seeing your the only one to have tested the harness that I know andcan ask. I think the importance of shoulder harness is lost on some. Icame down in a two place ultralight many years ago and luckly we had aballistic chute but before it was deployed, my body was slung around a bitbecause the aircraft had no shoulder harness. Then on impact I nearly putthe stick through my eye when my body folded up and my head went between myknees. Then 2 months later I witnessed a guy get killed in a gyrocopter ina crash that he would have survived if he hadn't hit his head on theinstrument panel.Greg________________________________________________________________________________
Shoulder harness attachment is one of the things holding up my covering ofthe fuselage. I was considering an 1/8" cable to the stern post or a plateto the floor of the fuse near the stern post. You don't have any picturesdo you? Seeing your the only one to have tested the harness that I know andcan ask. I think the importance of shoulder harness is lost on some. Icame down in a two place ultralight many years ago and luckly we had aballistic chute but before it was deployed, my body was slung around a bitbecause the aircraft had no shoulder harness. Then on impact I nearly putthe stick through my eye when my body folded up and my head went between myknees. Then 2 months later I witnessed a guy get killed in a gyrocopter ina crash that he would have survived if he hadn't hit his head on theinstrument panel.Greg________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Richard Navratil"
Greg,You are possibly the only one other than myself that is thinkingpractically. Place a plate on the floor of the fuse near the stern. My platealso spread the load for the tail wheel assembly. (Aside: If you are using asteerable tail wheel make sure you also have a crush plate on the undersideof the fuselage. I've seen what the tail wheel assembly can do. Itdefinitely compresses the fibers from the rough taxiing you will be doing).No I do not have any pictures or drawings and unfortunately it's covered.That part of the aircraft survived. Now, at the first station behind thepilot you must weld together a structure (like a 'V", upside down), thatspans the two upper longerons, but lies below the surface of the turtle deckskin. I used a clevis bolt with a quick disconnect. At the end of thelongerons weld an "L" that you can screw to the cross member between thelongerons from underneath the cross member. At the top of the 'V' , afitting will be welded to accept the end of the harness. This fitting sticksout of the turtle deck behind the pilot. It doesn't look right from anesthetic point of view. You will get a lot of questions, but so what. Itsaved my life. This structure has basically no strength in and of itself (itonly needs to hold the cable up), however but once the cable is tightenedyou will see how sleek the is. You see, what you want is something thatholds your weight in line with the tail. Also having the shoulder strapsanchored a station behind the pilot reduced the compression effect on thepilot. Did I mention before that the seat back split across the bottom rightat the base of the Cox bone, just above the glue joint to the seat top.Hope this helps,Domenico________________________________________________________________________________
Greg,You are possibly the only one other than myself that is thinkingpractically. Place a plate on the floor of the fuse near the stern. My platealso spread the load for the tail wheel assembly. (Aside: If you are using asteerable tail wheel make sure you also have a crush plate on the undersideof the fuselage. I've seen what the tail wheel assembly can do. Itdefinitely compresses the fibers from the rough taxiing you will be doing).No I do not have any pictures or drawings and unfortunately it's covered.That part of the aircraft survived. Now, at the first station behind thepilot you must weld together a structure (like a 'V", upside down), thatspans the two upper longerons, but lies below the surface of the turtle deckskin. I used a clevis bolt with a quick disconnect. At the end of thelongerons weld an "L" that you can screw to the cross member between thelongerons from underneath the cross member. At the top of the 'V' , afitting will be welded to accept the end of the harness. This fitting sticksout of the turtle deck behind the pilot. It doesn't look right from anesthetic point of view. You will get a lot of questions, but so what. Itsaved my life. This structure has basically no strength in and of itself (itonly needs to hold the cable up), however but once the cable is tightenedyou will see how sleek the is. You see, what you want is something thatholds your weight in line with the tail. Also having the shoulder strapsanchored a station behind the pilot reduced the compression effect on thepilot. Did I mention before that the seat back split across the bottom rightat the base of the Cox bone, just above the glue joint to the seat top.Hope this helps,Domenico________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: For Sale Cont. A 65
Original Posted By: "Duane"
Are you planning on going to Broadhead? I'd like to look over the engineand logs. If you arent coming up, I could come down there on the followingweekend.Dick Navratil----- Original Message -----
Are you planning on going to Broadhead? I'd like to look over the engineand logs. If you arent coming up, I could come down there on the followingweekend.Dick Navratil----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Duane
I don't know about you guys, but my shoulders are almost one foot above theturtle deck. Unless your shoulder harness support sticks up that high outof the turtle deck, it ain't doing much good.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:58:58 -0500
I don't know about you guys, but my shoulders are almost one foot above theturtle deck. Unless your shoulder harness support sticks up that high outof the turtle deck, it ain't doing much good.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:58:58 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder HarnessI have a 1/8" cable running from the fittings of the sholder harness, to an eyebolt, in the tailpost. I enclosed the harness/cable in a fiberglass headrest, that I set back about an inch from the top of the seat. It makes cockpit entry a little easier, as well as a little more room to move my head around. As an added benefit, it makes an open cockpit a little more aerodyanamic. I did a 1 glass lay-up over a foam plug, that I made with my hot wire cutter. I covered the turtledeck with seran wrap, taped the foam plug down to the fuselage, covered the foam with seran wrap, and did the lay-up right on the plane, so I could make a flange all the way around the edge, to supply a glue joint. After the resin cured, I popped the foam out, and it made a perfect fit when I was done. I added re-inforcements on the inside of the fiberglass where the harness passes thru, as well as 2 ribs to stiffen it up. I'll glue it to the top of the turtle deck, cover it with dacron fabric, and paint it red to blend into, and match the fuselage. See Y'all at Broadhead !!Chuck Gantzer________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder HarnessI have a 1/8" cable running from the fittings of the sholder harness, to an eyebolt, in the tailpost. I enclosed the harness/cable in a fiberglass headrest, that I set back about an inch from the top of the seat. It makes cockpit entry a little easier, as well as a little more room to move my head around. As an added benefit, it makes an open cockpit a little more aerodyanamic. I did a 1 glass lay-up over a foam plug, that I made with my hot wire cutter. I covered the turtledeck with seran wrap, taped the foam plug down to the fuselage, covered the foam with seran wrap, and did the lay-up right on the plane, so I could make a flange all the way around the edge, to supply a glue joint. After the resin cured, I popped the foam out, and it made a perfect fit when I was done. I added re-inforcements on the inside of the fiberglass where the harness passes thru, as well as 2 ribs to stiffen it up. I'll glue it to the top of the turtle deck, cover it with dacron fabric, and paint it red to blend into, and match the fuselage. See Y'all at Broadhead !!Chuck Gantzer________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Conoly"
Thanks for the help Domenico. I'm going to sketch something up after I comeback from Osh. Leave today and everything is a mess....Greg________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the help Domenico. I'm going to sketch something up after I comeback from Osh. Leave today and everything is a mess....Greg________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Excellent! Sounds good.Domenico________________________________________________________________________________
Excellent! Sounds good.Domenico________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Mario Giacummo
I am considering putting shoulder harnesses in my Pietenpol. Does anyone have any ideas as to the best anchor point for the shoulder harnessfor the rear seat? Also what hardware have you found best to mount to the structure?Thanks, Joseph________________________________________________________________________________
I am considering putting shoulder harnesses in my Pietenpol. Does anyone have any ideas as to the best anchor point for the shoulder harnessfor the rear seat? Also what hardware have you found best to mount to the structure?Thanks, Joseph________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Chris"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessI found a doc some time ago, i have it here :https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzIyXui ... sharingmay be it can help youregardsMario Giacummo. -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- /...- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .2013/2/19 Ohbejoyful >> I am considering putting shoulder harnesses in my Pietenpol.>> Does anyone have any ideas as to the best anchor point for the shoulder> harness for the rear seat? Also what hardware have you found best to mount> to the structure?>> Thanks,>> Joseph>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessI found a doc some time ago, i have it here :https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzIyXui ... sharingmay be it can help youregardsMario Giacummo. -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- /...- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .2013/2/19 Ohbejoyful >> I am considering putting shoulder harnesses in my Pietenpol.>> Does anyone have any ideas as to the best anchor point for the shoulder> harness for the rear seat? Also what hardware have you found best to mount> to the structure?>> Thanks,>> Joseph>>________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
There is a lot of discussion on seatbelts in the archives. This is the information I have about the British seatbelt locations (Sameinformation as the one Mario sent) http://westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htmIf I was being obsessive about this design I don't like the asymmetric pullon the bolts for the harness. I would rather see a metal fitting comingfrom the bottom and top that you attach the cable onto.Many people run a 1/8th inch cable from the tail wheel spring fitting.This is how I did my shoulder belts for the back seat. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... age_3.htmI combined both the British anchors and an anchor to the tail wheel in anattempt to divide the load like I do when I am rock climbing. Hopefully Iwill never find out if it worked.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com-----Original Message-----
There is a lot of discussion on seatbelts in the archives. This is the information I have about the British seatbelt locations (Sameinformation as the one Mario sent) http://westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htmIf I was being obsessive about this design I don't like the asymmetric pullon the bolts for the harness. I would rather see a metal fitting comingfrom the bottom and top that you attach the cable onto.Many people run a 1/8th inch cable from the tail wheel spring fitting.This is how I did my shoulder belts for the back seat. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... age_3.htmI combined both the British anchors and an anchor to the tail wheel in anattempt to divide the load like I do when I am rock climbing. Hopefully Iwill never find out if it worked.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessOscar had a very good idea for the front seat shoulder harness, here itis.. http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.htmlMario Giacummo. -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- /...- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .2013/2/20 Chris >> There is a lot of discussion on seatbelts in the archives.>> This is the information I have about the British seatbelt locations (Same> information as the one Mario sent) http://westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm> If I was being obsessive about this design I don't like the asymmetric pull> on the bolts for the harness. I would rather see a metal fitting coming> from the bottom and top that you attach the cable onto.>> Many people run a 1/8th inch cable from the tail wheel spring fitting.>> This is how I did my shoulder belts for the back seat.> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... page_3.htm>> I combined both the British anchors and an anchor to the tail wheel in an> attempt to divide the load like I do when I am rock climbing. Hopefully I> will never find out if it worked.>> Chris> Sacramento, Ca> Westcoastpiet.com>>> -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessOscar had a very good idea for the front seat shoulder harness, here itis.. http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.htmlMario Giacummo. -..- .. ... - .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .... . -.-. .... --- --..-- /...- .. ...- .. .-. / . ... / ..- -. / .- .-. - .2013/2/20 Chris >> There is a lot of discussion on seatbelts in the archives.>> This is the information I have about the British seatbelt locations (Same> information as the one Mario sent) http://westcoastpiet.com/seatbelts.htm> If I was being obsessive about this design I don't like the asymmetric pull> on the bolts for the harness. I would rather see a metal fitting coming> from the bottom and top that you attach the cable onto.>> Many people run a 1/8th inch cable from the tail wheel spring fitting.>> This is how I did my shoulder belts for the back seat.> http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Chris%2 ... page_3.htm>> I combined both the British anchors and an anchor to the tail wheel in an> attempt to divide the load like I do when I am rock climbing. Hopefully I> will never find out if it worked.>> Chris> Sacramento, Ca> Westcoastpiet.com>>> -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> > Ohbejoyful Joseph,> Attached shows how I did my front and pilot pits. Keep in mind this > Piethas not been off the ground. > The 7/16 picture shows the 2nd or 3rd practice instrument board, I > havesince moved the engine instruments to the right and the mag > switch to the> left, because when starting my Grega I am always standing at the > prop or on> the left side.> Skip> > > > [Original Message]
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> > "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net" > Since I do not have the turtleback in yet, I'm thinking I will go mostly withthe attach points for the rear seat as shown in the British > plans. Is this a good idea?> > Thanks,> Joseph> > > On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:04 PM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" > > > > I like it. I am a BIG believer in Shoulder harnesses. > > > > Much research and discussion on adding shoulder harnesses on the Beech listtaught me the following. > > > > 1. There are a lot of deaths and serious head injuries that happen when headshit instrument panels. > > FAA numbers say using shoulder belts in small aircraft would reduce major injuriesby 88% and fatalities by 20% > > 2. If you put shoulder attach points too low they add to back compression injuries.> > 3. One cross chest harness is much better than nothing probably 75 % as goodas a double harness. though you can have torso twisting is an issue. > > 4. Double harnesses are best, attached just about the level of the base ofyour skull. coming straight > > 5. The setup is as strong as the weakest link. > > 6. Certified aircraft guys covet the experimental ability to use good qualityauto seatbelts. > > > > It is important enough that the FAA has allowed GA certified aircraft to putseatbelts in with only a log entry. the only restriction is that the belts themselvesare FAA approved ($) and that they are put in similar to approved setups.> > > > I ended up putting single non retractable shoulder harnesses in my Vtail Bonanzathe same way that shoulder harnesses were put in from 1948 to 1956. Theattach point had become a hangon strap. > > > > Beechcraft Shoulder harnesses were offered as an option in the late 1940s andearly 1950s, but Beech dropped them for until the late 1950s because none sold!No one wanted them. Remember, cars in the 1950s did not have lap belts.> > > > I could not afford the $1500 per seat certified retractable dual shoulder harness.I will figure out how to mount rear shoulder belts in my Vtail. > > > > I will reinstall the harness in the Piet to get it flying. Then I will evaluatewhere it rides on me and pax. > > > > Now I will get off my soap box.> > > > Blue Skies,> > Steve D> > > > ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> Ohbejoyful
Joseph,Attached shows how I did my front and pilot pits. Keep in mind this Piethas not been off the ground. The 7/16 picture shows the 2nd or 3rd practice instrument board, I havesince moved the engine instruments to the right and the mag switch to theleft, because when starting my Grega I am always standing at the prop or onthe left side.Skip> [Original Message]
Joseph,Attached shows how I did my front and pilot pits. Keep in mind this Piethas not been off the ground. The 7/16 picture shows the 2nd or 3rd practice instrument board, I havesince moved the engine instruments to the right and the mag switch to theleft, because when starting my Grega I am always standing at the prop or onthe left side.Skip> [Original Message]
Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net"
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessI like it. I am a BIG believer in Shoulder harnesses. Much research and discussion on adding shoulder harnesses on the Beech list taughtme the following. 1. There are a lot of deaths and serious head injuries that happen when heads hitinstrument panels. FAA numbers say using shoulder belts in small aircraft would reduce major injuriesby 88% and fatalities by 20% 2. If you put shoulder attach points too low they add to back compression injuries.3. One cross chest harness is much better than nothing probably 75 % as good asa double harness. though you can have torso twisting is an issue. 4. Double harnesses are best, attached just about the level of the base of yourskull. coming straight 5. The setup is as strong as the weakest link. 6. Certified aircraft guys covet the experimental ability to use good quality autoseatbelts. It is important enough that the FAA has allowed GA certified aircraft to put seatbeltsin with only a log entry. the only restriction is that the belts themselvesare FAA approved ($) and that they are put in similar to approved setups.I ended up putting single non retractable shoulder harnesses in my Vtail Bonanzathe same way that shoulder harnesses were put in from 1948 to 1956. The attachpoint had become a hangon strap. Beechcraft Shoulder harnesses were offered as an option in the late 1940s and early1950s, but Beech dropped them for until the late 1950s because none sold!No one wanted them. Remember, cars in the 1950s did not have lap belts.I could not afford the $1500 per seat certified retractable dual shoulder harness.I will figure out how to mount rear shoulder belts in my Vtail. I will reinstall the harness in the Piet to get it flying. Then I will evaluatewhere it rides on me and pax. Now I will get off my soap box.Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessI like it. I am a BIG believer in Shoulder harnesses. Much research and discussion on adding shoulder harnesses on the Beech list taughtme the following. 1. There are a lot of deaths and serious head injuries that happen when heads hitinstrument panels. FAA numbers say using shoulder belts in small aircraft would reduce major injuriesby 88% and fatalities by 20% 2. If you put shoulder attach points too low they add to back compression injuries.3. One cross chest harness is much better than nothing probably 75 % as good asa double harness. though you can have torso twisting is an issue. 4. Double harnesses are best, attached just about the level of the base of yourskull. coming straight 5. The setup is as strong as the weakest link. 6. Certified aircraft guys covet the experimental ability to use good quality autoseatbelts. It is important enough that the FAA has allowed GA certified aircraft to put seatbeltsin with only a log entry. the only restriction is that the belts themselvesare FAA approved ($) and that they are put in similar to approved setups.I ended up putting single non retractable shoulder harnesses in my Vtail Bonanzathe same way that shoulder harnesses were put in from 1948 to 1956. The attachpoint had become a hangon strap. Beechcraft Shoulder harnesses were offered as an option in the late 1940s and early1950s, but Beech dropped them for until the late 1950s because none sold!No one wanted them. Remember, cars in the 1950s did not have lap belts.I could not afford the $1500 per seat certified retractable dual shoulder harness.I will figure out how to mount rear shoulder belts in my Vtail. I will reinstall the harness in the Piet to get it flying. Then I will evaluatewhere it rides on me and pax. Now I will get off my soap box.Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Original Posted By:> "skipgadd(at)earthlink.net"
Since I do not have the turtleback in yet, I'm thinking I will go mostly with theattach points for the rear seat as shown in the British plans. Is this a goodidea?Thanks,JosephOn Feb 20, 2013, at 8:04 PM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" wrote:> > I like it. I am a BIG believer in Shoulder harnesses. > > Much research and discussion on adding shoulder harnesses on the Beech list taughtme the following. > > 1. There are a lot of deaths and serious head injuries that happen when headshit instrument panels. > FAA numbers say using shoulder belts in small aircraft would reduce major injuriesby 88% and fatalities by 20% > 2. If you put shoulder attach points too low they add to back compression injuries.> 3. One cross chest harness is much better than nothing probably 75 % as goodas a double harness. though you can have torso twisting is an issue. > 4. Double harnesses are best, attached just about the level of the base of yourskull. coming straight > 5. The setup is as strong as the weakest link. > 6. Certified aircraft guys covet the experimental ability to use good qualityauto seatbelts. > > It is important enough that the FAA has allowed GA certified aircraft to putseatbelts in with only a log entry. the only restriction is that the belts themselvesare FAA approved ($) and that they are put in similar to approved setups.> > I ended up putting single non retractable shoulder harnesses in my Vtail Bonanzathe same way that shoulder harnesses were put in from 1948 to 1956. The attachpoint had become a hangon strap. > > Beechcraft Shoulder harnesses were offered as an option in the late 1940s andearly 1950s, but Beech dropped them for until the late 1950s because none sold!No one wanted them. Remember, cars in the 1950s did not have lap belts.> > I could not afford the $1500 per seat certified retractable dual shoulder harness.I will figure out how to mount rear shoulder belts in my Vtail. > > I will reinstall the harness in the Piet to get it flying. Then I will evaluatewhere it rides on me and pax. > > Now I will get off my soap box.> > Blue Skies,> Steve D> > ----- Original Message -----
Since I do not have the turtleback in yet, I'm thinking I will go mostly with theattach points for the rear seat as shown in the British plans. Is this a goodidea?Thanks,JosephOn Feb 20, 2013, at 8:04 PM, "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB" wrote:> > I like it. I am a BIG believer in Shoulder harnesses. > > Much research and discussion on adding shoulder harnesses on the Beech list taughtme the following. > > 1. There are a lot of deaths and serious head injuries that happen when headshit instrument panels. > FAA numbers say using shoulder belts in small aircraft would reduce major injuriesby 88% and fatalities by 20% > 2. If you put shoulder attach points too low they add to back compression injuries.> 3. One cross chest harness is much better than nothing probably 75 % as goodas a double harness. though you can have torso twisting is an issue. > 4. Double harnesses are best, attached just about the level of the base of yourskull. coming straight > 5. The setup is as strong as the weakest link. > 6. Certified aircraft guys covet the experimental ability to use good qualityauto seatbelts. > > It is important enough that the FAA has allowed GA certified aircraft to putseatbelts in with only a log entry. the only restriction is that the belts themselvesare FAA approved ($) and that they are put in similar to approved setups.> > I ended up putting single non retractable shoulder harnesses in my Vtail Bonanzathe same way that shoulder harnesses were put in from 1948 to 1956. The attachpoint had become a hangon strap. > > Beechcraft Shoulder harnesses were offered as an option in the late 1940s andearly 1950s, but Beech dropped them for until the late 1950s because none sold!No one wanted them. Remember, cars in the 1950s did not have lap belts.> > I could not afford the $1500 per seat certified retractable dual shoulder harness.I will figure out how to mount rear shoulder belts in my Vtail. > > I will reinstall the harness in the Piet to get it flying. Then I will evaluatewhere it rides on me and pax. > > Now I will get off my soap box.> > Blue Skies,> Steve D> > ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: Ohbejoyful
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessIMHO BIKIARBetter than nothing, I would put them as high as is reasonable. To be honest, acompressed spine is better than dain bramage. I am going to get mine flying as it was built with them through the upper seatback. Getting flying is important to me.Then I will possibly add a turtledeck just high enough to put them where I wantthem (and look cool) being safe is also important. This is just added safety.Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder HarnessIMHO BIKIARBetter than nothing, I would put them as high as is reasonable. To be honest, acompressed spine is better than dain bramage. I am going to get mine flying as it was built with them through the upper seatback. Getting flying is important to me.Then I will possibly add a turtledeck just high enough to put them where I wantthem (and look cool) being safe is also important. This is just added safety.Blue Skies,Steve D----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
The tail was uncovered in my heated shop.Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Feb 20, 2013, at 9:53 PM, "Clif Dawson" wrote:> > Are they covered or open to the elements.?> > Clif> >> >> Yes...on my tale surfaces which were torqued a couple years ago, all bolts>> for the hinges took one to two turns to tighten up before covering...>> >> Jack Textor>> Des Moines, IA>> >> >> >> Wood shrinkage can allow a through bolt to become loose, all the while the>> nut never moving and remaining tightly in place on the bolt.>> >> I've seen this on my plane.> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
The tail was uncovered in my heated shop.Sent from my iPadJack TextorOn Feb 20, 2013, at 9:53 PM, "Clif Dawson" wrote:> > Are they covered or open to the elements.?> > Clif> >> >> Yes...on my tale surfaces which were torqued a couple years ago, all bolts>> for the hinges took one to two turns to tighten up before covering...>> >> Jack Textor>> Des Moines, IA>> >> >> >> Wood shrinkage can allow a through bolt to become loose, all the while the>> nut never moving and remaining tightly in place on the bolt.>> >> I've seen this on my plane.> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Here is how I did my front seatbelts. I copied it from another Piet I had seenat Brodhead. They work very well and can be removed easily. I would do it thesame way again.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p101 ... __________
Here is how I did my front seatbelts. I copied it from another Piet I had seenat Brodhead. They work very well and can be removed easily. I would do it thesame way again.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p101 ... __________
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> Doug
> > Thanks Mike,sorry to here that you lost your garage,how far along wasyour project at the time?Doug.......> > I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether ornot> it would actually work.> > Mike> -----Original Message-----
> > Thanks Mike,sorry to here that you lost your garage,how far along wasyour project at the time?Doug.......> > I never got that far before the garage burned, so dont know whether ornot> it would actually work.> > Mike> -----Original Message-----
> Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By: "Doug"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness> > > >> >To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers;> > Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?Ifyou> >installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me apicture> >directly if one is available.> > I suspect the US.regs might be different.> > Thanks in advance.> >Doug Hunt> >C-GCGJ> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness> > > >> >To Dom,or other Canadian Piet drivers;> > Did you install front cockpit shoulder harness,or just a lap belt?Ifyou> >installed shoulder harness,where did you anchor them,can send me apicture> >directly if one is available.> > I suspect the US.regs might be different.> > Thanks in advance.> >Doug Hunt> >C-GCGJ> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Shoulder Harness
Original Posted By:> Mike Lund
> McNarry)> > Hi Doug> I know I keep refering to the DH 82a, but Mikes description is very> similar to what De Havilland did. The cable crosses the fuse just behindthe> front seat back and the shoulder harness is fastened to it with small> pulleys. I wonder if the pulleys would try to move together if the cable> could stretch? One advantage of this method is that the width between the> shoulder straps is self adjusting. I haven't taken a really good lookunder> the cowling between the 'pits, but I imagine that there must be a cross> piece able to withstand a high compressive load.> John Mc> -----Original Message-----
> McNarry)> > Hi Doug> I know I keep refering to the DH 82a, but Mikes description is very> similar to what De Havilland did. The cable crosses the fuse just behindthe> front seat back and the shoulder harness is fastened to it with small> pulleys. I wonder if the pulleys would try to move together if the cable> could stretch? One advantage of this method is that the width between the> shoulder straps is self adjusting. I haven't taken a really good lookunder> the cowling between the 'pits, but I imagine that there must be a cross> piece able to withstand a high compressive load.> John Mc> -----Original Message-----