Original Posted By: Wizzard187(at)aol.com
http://www.gatherround.com/u51000a56126pLook.invtI know it's mot a Pete but here are some photos of my current plane.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Photos
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: "Carl Loar"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosThis is Ken from Iowa. I am wondering if it is possible to take out the control sticks and tourque tube after the plane is finished. Also do you put in and inspection holes for repairs or adjustments in this area? I assume all the seats are gluedin solid. I am building a GN-1 Thanks________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosThis is Ken from Iowa. I am wondering if it is possible to take out the control sticks and tourque tube after the plane is finished. Also do you put in and inspection holes for repairs or adjustments in this area? I assume all the seats are gluedin solid. I am building a GN-1 Thanks________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By:
Ken,,,, I'm using screws on my seats so I can get the controls out if needbe. I figure that with two inspectionholes where the bellcrank is will give full access to the cable adjustmentsand connections.Carl----- Original Message -----
Ken,,,, I'm using screws on my seats so I can get the controls out if needbe. I figure that with two inspectionholes where the bellcrank is will give full access to the cable adjustmentsand connections.Carl----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: AMsafetyC(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: PhotosA couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and thelanding gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did somethingwrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it shouldbe no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down therunway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love thatModel A engine!Fred B.La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: PhotosA couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone using for the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer and thelanding gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did somethingwrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it shouldbe no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down therunway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love thatModel A engine!Fred B.La Crosse, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosIn a message dated 8/6/2006 10:53:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, TBYH(at)aol.com writes:Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did somethingwrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it shouldbe no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down therunway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love thatModel A engine!I have been giving the powerplant a lot of thought as I prepare to build and was concerned about the weight issue. Actually I have 2 Model engine blocks and a ford 2.2 OHC(LIMA) engine that's brand new from during the Pinto years. Itwould be nice to use either powerplant format but concerned about the weight Vs hp ration in hauling my big self above the trees on a hot day. Interesting to learn that the Model A engine had enough go to get the pilot and a 250 lb passenger into the air with no trouble on a 90 degree day.Looks like more consideration is necessary in utilizing the what I have available, as in the true to form and design considerations of Bernard!John________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosIn a message dated 8/6/2006 10:53:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, TBYH(at)aol.com writes:Second, I sent some in-flight pics of my ride in Ken Perkins' Piet at Brodhead 2006 to the photoshare but they haven't appeared. Maybe I did somethingwrong? By the way, I'm 250 lbs and if I can get into the front seat, it shouldbe no problem for most guys. And that little Model A engine flew us out with no muss or fuss on Saturday morning...had it been 90 degrees and no wind down therunway it might have been a little different, but I thought she flew great. Was my first flight in a Piet and it was better than I had imagined...love thatModel A engine!I have been giving the powerplant a lot of thought as I prepare to build and was concerned about the weight issue. Actually I have 2 Model engine blocks and a ford 2.2 OHC(LIMA) engine that's brand new from during the Pinto years. Itwould be nice to use either powerplant format but concerned about the weight Vs hp ration in hauling my big self above the trees on a hot day. Interesting to learn that the Model A engine had enough go to get the pilot and a 250 lb passenger into the air with no trouble on a 90 degree day.Looks like more consideration is necessary in utilizing the what I have available, as in the true to form and design considerations of Bernard!John________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: "gcardinal"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosHi Fred,I made a point of looking at the size of the control cables on the "Last Original" Piet that Bernard built. He used 1/8" inside the cockpit for the elevators, but behind the bellcrank he went with 3/32" He also used only 1/16"for tail bracing. I think a lot of guys go overkill and use 1/8" on everything. I have heard Bill Rewey say to use 3/32" on the tail bracing becauseif it corrodes you may not see it. I think if you go with stainless cable you would not have to worry about that. Besides there is an automatic fail-safe inthat area because you have two brace wires on each side. The plans call for 3/32" for the ailerons.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosHi Fred,I made a point of looking at the size of the control cables on the "Last Original" Piet that Bernard built. He used 1/8" inside the cockpit for the elevators, but behind the bellcrank he went with 3/32" He also used only 1/16"for tail bracing. I think a lot of guys go overkill and use 1/8" on everything. I have heard Bill Rewey say to use 3/32" on the tail bracing becauseif it corrodes you may not see it. I think if you go with stainless cable you would not have to worry about that. Besides there is an automatic fail-safe inthat area because you have two brace wires on each side. The plans call for 3/32" for the ailerons.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: TBYH(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosHi Fred,NX18235 uses dash 16 turnbuckles (or equivalent) and 3/32 cable for all control cables and empennage bracing. Landing gear uses dash 22 turnbuckles and 1/8 cable.Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosHi Fred,NX18235 uses dash 16 turnbuckles (or equivalent) and 3/32 cable for all control cables and empennage bracing. Landing gear uses dash 22 turnbuckles and 1/8 cable.Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: TBYH(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosFor the control cables the plans call for 3/32" wire from the bell crank to the tail, 7x19 3/32" = 1,000# galvanized or 920# stainless an AN130-16 (1,600#) would be fine here. Some people do not like the small size of the 3/32" so they substitute 1/8" wire, 7/19 1/8"= 2000# Galv or 1760#. You could use an AN 130-16 and get 1,600# or if you step up to the AN130-22 you get 2,200#. Both exceed the design strength, you can decide how much you want to exceed it by. The two cables from the stick to the bell crank are called out as 1/8" flexible, so obviously an AN130-22 should be used here as you would be giving away 400# of strength using the AN130-16.Tail brace wire is 14 gage on the plans. According to my book "Aircraft Maintenance" by Brimm and Boggess published in 1940, Tinned Aircraft Wire 14 gage has a breaking strength of 1,250#. Unfortunately, this falls between the 3/32 and 1/8 cable. I believe most people go with the 3/32 with AN130-16. It's what I will use.The Jenny gear calls for 1/8" cable so use an AN130-22 which exceeds the strength of the wire, an AN130-16 would be too much of a loss in strength.I know the list archives have a lot of discussion on this subject. Try doing a search and you can read what others have done.The photo share can take several days to post as Matt does it by hand when he gets time.Chris TracySacramento, Ca ----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosFor the control cables the plans call for 3/32" wire from the bell crank to the tail, 7x19 3/32" = 1,000# galvanized or 920# stainless an AN130-16 (1,600#) would be fine here. Some people do not like the small size of the 3/32" so they substitute 1/8" wire, 7/19 1/8"= 2000# Galv or 1760#. You could use an AN 130-16 and get 1,600# or if you step up to the AN130-22 you get 2,200#. Both exceed the design strength, you can decide how much you want to exceed it by. The two cables from the stick to the bell crank are called out as 1/8" flexible, so obviously an AN130-22 should be used here as you would be giving away 400# of strength using the AN130-16.Tail brace wire is 14 gage on the plans. According to my book "Aircraft Maintenance" by Brimm and Boggess published in 1940, Tinned Aircraft Wire 14 gage has a breaking strength of 1,250#. Unfortunately, this falls between the 3/32 and 1/8 cable. I believe most people go with the 3/32 with AN130-16. It's what I will use.The Jenny gear calls for 1/8" cable so use an AN130-22 which exceeds the strength of the wire, an AN130-16 would be too much of a loss in strength.I know the list archives have a lot of discussion on this subject. Try doing a search and you can read what others have done.The photo share can take several days to post as Matt does it by hand when he gets time.Chris TracySacramento, Ca ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosFred, Regarding cable size, over the past few days, I have been searching the archivesand builder's web sites to answer the same question. After looking at ChuckGantzer's web site, I then e-mailed him to get more of his thoughts. I'll attachChuck's comments below that he shared with me yesterday and he also commentedto me to post the question again as you just did. From Chuck: John, I used 1/8" cable for the rudder control, but I just looked at the plans, andit calls out for 3/32" cable, but I think almost everyone uses 1/8" for the rudder.Also use 1/8" for pitch control from the stick to the bellcrank, and use3/32" cable from the bellcrank to the Flippers (elevators). In the book Stickand Rudder, Wolfgang Langewiesche calls them the 'Flippers'. He goes on witha very good explanation why. I would strongly suggest you read this bookat least Three times !! In the AC 43.13 (another Must Have publication) itcalls out for a cable deflection of more than 7, there should be a pulley inplace, as opposed to a fairlead. Therefore, by today's standards, a pulley wouldbe required on the cable that goes to the top of the bellcrank, like yousuggested you were going to do. However, because of the design of the Pietenpol,and the tension of those cables, the pulley is not required there. On my plane the aileron cables are 3/32", the drag / anti-drag cables inthe wing are 3/32", the lift strut cables are 3/32", the cabane strut cablesare 3/32", the flying wires on the tail are 1/16", and the tailwheel cable is1/16" which goes all the way up to the rudder bar. I used nico-press fittingsfor everything on the cables, except the flying wires on the tail, which areswaged fittings. The control surface cables are NOT tight...you simply removeall the slack, and do not tighten up the cable - just remove all the slack. On the fixed cables in the wing, struts, cabane, and tail, you DO tension themup a little bit, till they Twang - no call out on tension, but they are tight.The entire cable system on my plane has been trouble free, however, there istimes when some adjustments must be made. Wood changes dimensions slightlywith temp and humidity, and this makes it necessary to make an adjustment hereand there, every so often. A thought just occurred to me. If you like, you should ask me these questionson the Pietenpol Discussion group, so anyone else contemplating the samethings you are, could benefit from my explanation. Hope this helps. Have funbuilding !! It's a Great hobby !! Chuck G. NX770CG I'll offer this infomation to the group so they don't have to look at the prints:According to the prints (2-26-34) of the control system, 3/32" cable is calledout for the rudder cables (top view of fuselage detail), 1/8" cable is calledout for the cable between the control stick and bell crank (side view offuselage detail), 3/32" cable for the aileron cables (cross section view of thefuselage and wing detail). I don't see a call out for the cables running fromthe bell crank to the tail surfaces, maybe it's on a diiferent page? I'm wondering if 3/32" cable is a good choice for the control stick cables? Would the control sticks and other parts fail before the 3/32" cable fails? Thanksall.TBYH(at)aol.com wrote: A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone usingfor the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer andthe landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? ! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ---------------------------------________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: PhotosFred, Regarding cable size, over the past few days, I have been searching the archivesand builder's web sites to answer the same question. After looking at ChuckGantzer's web site, I then e-mailed him to get more of his thoughts. I'll attachChuck's comments below that he shared with me yesterday and he also commentedto me to post the question again as you just did. From Chuck: John, I used 1/8" cable for the rudder control, but I just looked at the plans, andit calls out for 3/32" cable, but I think almost everyone uses 1/8" for the rudder.Also use 1/8" for pitch control from the stick to the bellcrank, and use3/32" cable from the bellcrank to the Flippers (elevators). In the book Stickand Rudder, Wolfgang Langewiesche calls them the 'Flippers'. He goes on witha very good explanation why. I would strongly suggest you read this bookat least Three times !! In the AC 43.13 (another Must Have publication) itcalls out for a cable deflection of more than 7, there should be a pulley inplace, as opposed to a fairlead. Therefore, by today's standards, a pulley wouldbe required on the cable that goes to the top of the bellcrank, like yousuggested you were going to do. However, because of the design of the Pietenpol,and the tension of those cables, the pulley is not required there. On my plane the aileron cables are 3/32", the drag / anti-drag cables inthe wing are 3/32", the lift strut cables are 3/32", the cabane strut cablesare 3/32", the flying wires on the tail are 1/16", and the tailwheel cable is1/16" which goes all the way up to the rudder bar. I used nico-press fittingsfor everything on the cables, except the flying wires on the tail, which areswaged fittings. The control surface cables are NOT tight...you simply removeall the slack, and do not tighten up the cable - just remove all the slack. On the fixed cables in the wing, struts, cabane, and tail, you DO tension themup a little bit, till they Twang - no call out on tension, but they are tight.The entire cable system on my plane has been trouble free, however, there istimes when some adjustments must be made. Wood changes dimensions slightlywith temp and humidity, and this makes it necessary to make an adjustment hereand there, every so often. A thought just occurred to me. If you like, you should ask me these questionson the Pietenpol Discussion group, so anyone else contemplating the samethings you are, could benefit from my explanation. Hope this helps. Have funbuilding !! It's a Great hobby !! Chuck G. NX770CG I'll offer this infomation to the group so they don't have to look at the prints:According to the prints (2-26-34) of the control system, 3/32" cable is calledout for the rudder cables (top view of fuselage detail), 1/8" cable is calledout for the cable between the control stick and bell crank (side view offuselage detail), 3/32" cable for the aileron cables (cross section view of thefuselage and wing detail). I don't see a call out for the cables running fromthe bell crank to the tail surfaces, maybe it's on a diiferent page? I'm wondering if 3/32" cable is a good choice for the control stick cables? Would the control sticks and other parts fail before the 3/32" cable fails? Thanksall.TBYH(at)aol.com wrote: A couple questions -- what size turnbuckles and cables is everyone usingfor the control cables and also for the vertical fin/horizontal stabilizer andthe landing gear braces (Jenny style l.g.) ? ! Fred B. La Crosse, WI ---------------------------------________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Photos
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]"
Welcome Jeff. If you are getting the list real-time via email they should be attached to the message. If you are getting the digest they won't be, but you can access the list via the web-based forum and they should be in the messages there:http://forum.matronics.comThen scroll down to find the Pietenpol list. You can also find the Matronics list archives at:http://www.matronics.com/searchRead the instructions on how best to construct your search, as that will ensure you can find what you are looking for. There is a lot of information in the archives.Have a good day,RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Mar 20, 2010, at 2:45 PM, jeff wilson wrote:> Can anyone tell me how to find or see the photos associated with > these messages are located? As they say, a picture is worth a > thousand words and i sure would like to be able to see all the fine > examples of Piet workmanship contained here. I'm starting my Piet > build This April and I want to build on the best of the experience > all of you have to offer.>> Thanks, first timer> Jeff Wilson>>________________________________________________________________________________
Welcome Jeff. If you are getting the list real-time via email they should be attached to the message. If you are getting the digest they won't be, but you can access the list via the web-based forum and they should be in the messages there:http://forum.matronics.comThen scroll down to find the Pietenpol list. You can also find the Matronics list archives at:http://www.matronics.com/searchRead the instructions on how best to construct your search, as that will ensure you can find what you are looking for. There is a lot of information in the archives.Have a good day,RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Mar 20, 2010, at 2:45 PM, jeff wilson wrote:> Can anyone tell me how to find or see the photos associated with > these messages are located? As they say, a picture is worth a > thousand words and i sure would like to be able to see all the fine > examples of Piet workmanship contained here. I'm starting my Piet > build This April and I want to build on the best of the experience > all of you have to offer.>> Thanks, first timer> Jeff Wilson>>________________________________________________________________________________