Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing spars>>I'm in the process of building ribs and thinking onward to the spar. Has>anyone used 2 laminates of 1/4" ply with 1/4x 1/2" cap strips to make a>single piece spar? Seems to me it would be very strong and the same size as>in plans, but what about weight?>I would appreciate any input.>Dick Navratil>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
I'm in the process of building ribs and thinking onward to the spar. Hasanyone used 2 laminates of 1/4" ply with 1/4x 1/2" cap strips to make asingle piece spar? Seems to me it would be very strong and the same size asin plans, but what about weight?I would appreciate any input.Dick Navratil________________________________________________________________________________
I'm in the process of building ribs and thinking onward to the spar. Hasanyone used 2 laminates of 1/4" ply with 1/4x 1/2" cap strips to make asingle piece spar? Seems to me it would be very strong and the same size asin plans, but what about weight?I would appreciate any input.Dick Navratil________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega Landing Gear Question.
Original Posted By: "Domenico Bellissimo"
Hi,I used a 4 fluted milling bit, On an American Index milling machine. Ipre-drilled the start hole with 3/16 then 1/4 inch plain drill. The 1/4"mill bit fit nicely in that hole then milled the slot required. If the bitis long enough you can mill both the top surface and the bottom at the sametime. Otherwise do one at the time without moving the piece of work.Good luck,Domenic________________________________________________________________________________
Hi,I used a 4 fluted milling bit, On an American Index milling machine. Ipre-drilled the start hole with 3/16 then 1/4 inch plain drill. The 1/4"mill bit fit nicely in that hole then milled the slot required. If the bitis long enough you can mill both the top surface and the bottom at the sametime. Otherwise do one at the time without moving the piece of work.Good luck,Domenic________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: Richard Navratil
I have been thinking on the same lines....Top quality Mahogony is cheap around here, as is 1/8" birch ply.I think I am going to use a 3/4" mahogony core, with 1/8" birch either side.I just havent decided whether or not to rout it out yet. Gotta get this fusedone first...Mike-----Original Message-----
I have been thinking on the same lines....Top quality Mahogony is cheap around here, as is 1/8" birch ply.I think I am going to use a 3/4" mahogony core, with 1/8" birch either side.I just havent decided whether or not to rout it out yet. Gotta get this fusedone first...Mike-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Richard,Check Drawing #5 of the plans. I think you mean 3/4" not 1/2". Your finisheddimensions should be 3/4" high X 1.0" wide for the caps. At least that'swhat I see for the routed spar. Should be no problem building up a spar withthat method. You'll sure save a lot of money and weight. Each of my sitkaspruce spars cost me $265.00 cdn in 1987 $'s.Regards,Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Richard,Check Drawing #5 of the plans. I think you mean 3/4" not 1/2". Your finisheddimensions should be 3/4" high X 1.0" wide for the caps. At least that'swhat I see for the routed spar. Should be no problem building up a spar withthat method. You'll sure save a lot of money and weight. Each of my sitkaspruce spars cost me $265.00 cdn in 1987 $'s.Regards,Dom.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing sparsIn a message dated 2/2/00 7:52:44 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:>I don't believe this spar would be strong enough. Every other layer in plywood is at a right angle, therefore there would NOT be enough grain running the length of the spar. Also, the longest (and costly) plywood I've seen, is only 10', which means it would have additional scarf splices. Lets save money and weight in places other than the primary structure. The spars in my wing is Douglas Fir, 4 3/4" X 3/4", with almost perfect grain. Chuck________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing sparsIn a message dated 2/2/00 7:52:44 PM Central Standard Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:>I don't believe this spar would be strong enough. Every other layer in plywood is at a right angle, therefore there would NOT be enough grain running the length of the spar. Also, the longest (and costly) plywood I've seen, is only 10', which means it would have additional scarf splices. Lets save money and weight in places other than the primary structure. The spars in my wing is Douglas Fir, 4 3/4" X 3/4", with almost perfect grain. Chuck________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Chuck, Do you plan on building up the top and bottom of the spar to 1" or are you going to leave it at 3/4"? If the latter, did you modify your ribs.Thanks,Joe>spars in my wing is Douglas Fir, 4 3/4" X 3/4", with almost perfect grain.________________________________________________________________________________
Chuck, Do you plan on building up the top and bottom of the spar to 1" or are you going to leave it at 3/4"? If the latter, did you modify your ribs.Thanks,Joe>spars in my wing is Douglas Fir, 4 3/4" X 3/4", with almost perfect grain.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Thanks for the input on my spar idea. My thought was to build exactly tothe dimensions on the plan. I did make a mistake on the cap stripdimension. I would rout it by using full ply pieces in sections which theplan calls for un-routed and 1/4x3/4 both top and bottom. The 90 degreeissue is a good point. I wonder if 45 degree layup is available in 1/4"?Since I have hangar space, one piece seems like a good idea to eliminateone more possible problem. I'm not worried about length of individualpieces, I think 8' sections would be just fine.Dick Navratil________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the input on my spar idea. My thought was to build exactly tothe dimensions on the plan. I did make a mistake on the cap stripdimension. I would rout it by using full ply pieces in sections which theplan calls for un-routed and 1/4x3/4 both top and bottom. The 90 degreeissue is a good point. I wonder if 45 degree layup is available in 1/4"?Since I have hangar space, one piece seems like a good idea to eliminateone more possible problem. I'm not worried about length of individualpieces, I think 8' sections would be just fine.Dick Navratil________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: "Gary Meadows"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing sparsIn a message dated 2/3/00 8:36:49 AM Central Standard Time, jkrzes(at)hotmail.com writes:>Hey Joe, the only thing I have to do to the wing, is the 4" tape on the leading edge then paint. I used 1/8" shims on the front and back of each rib / spar location, on both front and rear spar. This kept the spars spaced properly for the cabane struts. On my next wing, I will modify the wing rib jig, to accept the 3/4" spar. Here is the things I would do differently when I build my next wing : The ribs will now be referred to as 'L1'- Left 1st rib. 'R1' - Right 1st rib. There are 14 ribs on each side. The center rib will be referred to as 'C'. Build new rib jig, so that the gussets and the upright x next to the spars, are spaced 28 1/16" to 28 1/8" apart. This should be the exact dimention between the spars, with the exception of the 3 center ribs, and the outboard ribs where the struts attach. These locations have 1/8" plywood doublers on each side of the spar, so they will have to be 1" openings for the spars. Leave the gussets off in 2 locations. On the lower forward side of the front spar, and on the aft upper side of the aft spar. Install these gussets after the ribs have been assembled to the spars. This will ensure easy assembly, and a nice tight fit. Other gussets to be left off are on the ribs at the inboard aileron station. On this rib, leave the outboard (trailing edge) gusset off, for the later installation of the aileron blank plywood (1/16"). The center section of the wing, forward of the front spar, is designed so as to allow the top of the radiator to be within the wing. Two 1/8" plywood L.E. ribs, are spaced evenly between, and paralell to, R1 and L1. These ribs will accept the 1/16" plywood L.E. (on top), and the 1/32" plywood (within the radiator cavity). I built my wing in this manner to reduce cooling system drag, and to reduce weight. I will support the bottom of my radiator with a bracked attached to the front cabane struts, and allow the cavity behind the leading edge to retain the radiator for & aft.I hope this helps.Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing sparsIn a message dated 2/3/00 8:36:49 AM Central Standard Time, jkrzes(at)hotmail.com writes:>Hey Joe, the only thing I have to do to the wing, is the 4" tape on the leading edge then paint. I used 1/8" shims on the front and back of each rib / spar location, on both front and rear spar. This kept the spars spaced properly for the cabane struts. On my next wing, I will modify the wing rib jig, to accept the 3/4" spar. Here is the things I would do differently when I build my next wing : The ribs will now be referred to as 'L1'- Left 1st rib. 'R1' - Right 1st rib. There are 14 ribs on each side. The center rib will be referred to as 'C'. Build new rib jig, so that the gussets and the upright x next to the spars, are spaced 28 1/16" to 28 1/8" apart. This should be the exact dimention between the spars, with the exception of the 3 center ribs, and the outboard ribs where the struts attach. These locations have 1/8" plywood doublers on each side of the spar, so they will have to be 1" openings for the spars. Leave the gussets off in 2 locations. On the lower forward side of the front spar, and on the aft upper side of the aft spar. Install these gussets after the ribs have been assembled to the spars. This will ensure easy assembly, and a nice tight fit. Other gussets to be left off are on the ribs at the inboard aileron station. On this rib, leave the outboard (trailing edge) gusset off, for the later installation of the aileron blank plywood (1/16"). The center section of the wing, forward of the front spar, is designed so as to allow the top of the radiator to be within the wing. Two 1/8" plywood L.E. ribs, are spaced evenly between, and paralell to, R1 and L1. These ribs will accept the 1/16" plywood L.E. (on top), and the 1/32" plywood (within the radiator cavity). I built my wing in this manner to reduce cooling system drag, and to reduce weight. I will support the bottom of my radiator with a bracked attached to the front cabane struts, and allow the cavity behind the leading edge to retain the radiator for & aft.I hope this helps.Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: leaving list to go fly
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
Mark, Just go to the bottom of this email and find "subscribe". Go to that, follow the prompts, and you're done with all those hours of tedium deleting these messages!________________________________________________________________________________
Mark, Just go to the bottom of this email and find "subscribe". Go to that, follow the prompts, and you're done with all those hours of tedium deleting these messages!________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: "oil can"
Back to the discussion last week about weight savings on routing. I routedmine last night, collected the shavings and weighed them on a sensitivescale at work. It totaled 8lb 2 oz. for all four pieces. I did them onmy table saw with a dato blade set to 3/16".Dick Navratil________________________________________________________________________________
Back to the discussion last week about weight savings on routing. I routedmine last night, collected the shavings and weighed them on a sensitivescale at work. It totaled 8lb 2 oz. for all four pieces. I did them onmy table saw with a dato blade set to 3/16".Dick Navratil________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: "Michael Brusilow"
I'm thinking of using 3/4" wing spars instead of 1" and I've heard that it is not uncommon. They would be unrouted as opposed to the 1" routed spars. What are the pros and cons?________________________________________________________________________________
I'm thinking of using 3/4" wing spars instead of 1" and I've heard that it is not uncommon. They would be unrouted as opposed to the 1" routed spars. What are the pros and cons?________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing spars
Original Posted By: "Michael Brusilow"
>I'm thinking of using 3/4" wing spars instead of 1" and I've heard thatitis not uncommon. They would be unrouted as opposed to the 1" routedspars.What are the pros and cons?I used 1" spars. I have had no problems.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
>I'm thinking of using 3/4" wing spars instead of 1" and I've heard thatitis not uncommon. They would be unrouted as opposed to the 1" routedspars.What are the pros and cons?I used 1" spars. I have had no problems.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-list: wing spars
Original Posted By: "Rodger & Betty Childs"
Jeff:I am just finishing my Piet an used 3/4" vertical grain fir spars. After researching costs, and using the numbers published by the WesternWood Association, it appears that fir is about 25% stronger than sitkaspruce however has also about 25% more weight. So if Mr. Pietenpolspecified 1" spars (routed out to 1/2" thick") and you would use the3/4" fir, I think that you will end up with more than enough strength. The cost difference is well worth the extra 2 to 4 lbs per spar penalty. I believe that I was quoted about 4 years ago $650.00 for spruce withshipping and was able to get the fir in Denver for about $250.00! Ithink you can find a saving of the weight someplace else in the plane! Other builders seem to have come to the same conclusion.John Dilatush dilatush(at)amigo.net________________________________________________________________________________
Jeff:I am just finishing my Piet an used 3/4" vertical grain fir spars. After researching costs, and using the numbers published by the WesternWood Association, it appears that fir is about 25% stronger than sitkaspruce however has also about 25% more weight. So if Mr. Pietenpolspecified 1" spars (routed out to 1/2" thick") and you would use the3/4" fir, I think that you will end up with more than enough strength. The cost difference is well worth the extra 2 to 4 lbs per spar penalty. I believe that I was quoted about 4 years ago $650.00 for spruce withshipping and was able to get the fir in Denver for about $250.00! Ithink you can find a saving of the weight someplace else in the plane! Other builders seem to have come to the same conclusion.John Dilatush dilatush(at)amigo.net________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-list: wing spars
Original Posted By: "James Fuller"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-list: wing sparsI feel if you can find a reliable source that Doug Fir is the way to go. I was lucky. I was encouraged to go fir by several on this net. I searched and found a good source of QUALITY lumber. My four spars of beautiful 3/4 routed down DF cost me $ 182.50. If any of you would like my source please contact me personally by e mail. Corky in damp, wet , humid La________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-list: wing sparsI feel if you can find a reliable source that Doug Fir is the way to go. I was lucky. I was encouraged to go fir by several on this net. I searched and found a good source of QUALITY lumber. My four spars of beautiful 3/4 routed down DF cost me $ 182.50. If any of you would like my source please contact me personally by e mail. Corky in damp, wet , humid La________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-list: wing spars
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Doug fir here also. I'm picking mine up tomorrow, ripped to size and planedwith a little extra wood to spare,,, cost,, $200.I too am going with the 3/4 spars. Just gotta keep doing those darned oleribs to put on the spars.CarlPlease visit my website atwww.megsinet.net/skycarl-----Original Message-----
Doug fir here also. I'm picking mine up tomorrow, ripped to size and planedwith a little extra wood to spare,,, cost,, $200.I too am going with the 3/4 spars. Just gotta keep doing those darned oleribs to put on the spars.CarlPlease visit my website atwww.megsinet.net/skycarl-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-list: wing spars
Original Posted By: del magsam
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-list: wing spars
Original Posted By: "del magsam"
I also got my spar stock. Thy were als very patient in letting me go thrutheir stock and picking out the pieces I wanted.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
I also got my spar stock. Thy were als very patient in letting me go thrutheir stock and picking out the pieces I wanted.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
I am ordering the spruce for my spars today from Wicks but have some questions. Am building the 3 piece wing. The spar butt joint straps in the center section that connect the spars to the center section will require the ribs to be cut out to fit over them or the ribs will all have to be spaced 1/8=9D further apart front to rear with a strip of 1/8=9D X 4 3/4=9D plywood. Trying to determine which method to use. What is the best way or what have others done? Think I remember reading years back of the plywood method on this list.Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:09:19 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment
I am ordering the spruce for my spars today from Wicks but have some questions. Am building the 3 piece wing. The spar butt joint straps in the center section that connect the spars to the center section will require the ribs to be cut out to fit over them or the ribs will all have to be spaced 1/8=9D further apart front to rear with a strip of 1/8=9D X 4 3/4=9D plywood. Trying to determine which method to use. What is the best way or what have others done? Think I remember reading years back of the plywood method on this list.Dennis ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:09:19 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Aluminum Wing Strut/Jury Strut Attachment