Original Posted By: Don Mosher
Richard,I would think that the plywood blocks, made as shown in your illustrationwith straight up and down sides, will lead to stress risers as the beamflexes due to the fact that these are end grain glue joints at each side ofthe blocks and on each side of the beam. And this will lead to cracksdeveloping at the glue juncture of the blocks and the beam because endgrain glue joints are the weakest of joints.Better to have the plywood blocks cut with a 45 ~ 60 deg angle on eachend and with a matching slope cut in the beam to make a stronger joint.On the back side of the beam where the beam is notched down there willbe an area of over hang from the slope of the plywood block that shouldbe filled with a matching filler block. This little matching filler blockcouldbe, say, 3/4 ~ 1" long overall.Then I wouldn't feel uneasy about the approach to installing the hinges asyou have stated.Rodger ChildsPiet in progress________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:48:43 -0600
Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
et>Shad,I cut a groove 1/16 wide X 3/4 deep and epoxied the aluminum hinge in the groove. Then I put- 1/8 stainless pins- vertical for insurance against the epoxy turning loose. Thus I have full length hinges that will double as gap seals.- I made the edges where the hinges go 1/2 wider so cutting the groove didn't weaken the structure. I think it would have been fine without it though. I will cross drill the hinge on each end to retain the hinge pin with little 1/16 cotter pins.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pian ... _672.jpgle, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
et>Shad,I cut a groove 1/16 wide X 3/4 deep and epoxied the aluminum hinge in the groove. Then I put- 1/8 stainless pins- vertical for insurance against the epoxy turning loose. Thus I have full length hinges that will double as gap seals.- I made the edges where the hinges go 1/2 wider so cutting the groove didn't weaken the structure. I think it would have been fine without it though. I will cross drill the hinge on each end to retain the hinge pin with little 1/16 cotter pins.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building- NX510JD- July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pian ... _672.jpgle, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
RE: Pietenpol-List: Welding other steels to 4130
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
In general, 300 series stainless is not a weldable grade. Nor is it asstrong as 4130. Why would you want to use stainless?Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
In general, 300 series stainless is not a weldable grade. Nor is it asstrong as 4130. Why would you want to use stainless?Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
I am working on the tail for my Pietenpol. I have the horizontal stabilizer jiggedup and am ready to cut the diagonals between the rear "main beam" and thecenter beam. Do these diagonals--if built per plans--interfere with the hardwareused to mount the outermost hinges?Does the hinge need to be moved in toward the center? I plan to recess the hinges.What kind of hardware is used to mount the hinges?Thanks,Joseph Jameson________________________________________________________________________________
I am working on the tail for my Pietenpol. I have the horizontal stabilizer jiggedup and am ready to cut the diagonals between the rear "main beam" and thecenter beam. Do these diagonals--if built per plans--interfere with the hardwareused to mount the outermost hinges?Does the hinge need to be moved in toward the center? I plan to recess the hinges.What kind of hardware is used to mount the hinges?Thanks,Joseph Jameson________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Joseph,Yes, they can be in the way if you are using bolts and nuts. I opened up a1" access hole in the bottom of those gussets; just enough to get a wrenchon the nuts. I used #4 countersunk, stainless bolts, stainless washers andstainless, fibered nuts.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Joseph,Yes, they can be in the way if you are using bolts and nuts. I opened up a1" access hole in the bottom of those gussets; just enough to get a wrenchon the nuts. I used #4 countersunk, stainless bolts, stainless washers andstainless, fibered nuts.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Thanks for the information. I have about 3/8" of space for the nut and washer.Is that enough space?On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > Joseph,> > Yes, they can be in the way if you are using bolts and nuts. I opened up a> 1" access hole in the bottom of those gussets; just enough to get a wrench> on the nuts. I used #4 countersunk, stainless bolts, stainless washers and> stainless, fibered nuts.> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > -----Original Message-----
Thanks for the information. I have about 3/8" of space for the nut and washer.Is that enough space?On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> > Joseph,> > Yes, they can be in the way if you are using bolts and nuts. I opened up a> 1" access hole in the bottom of those gussets; just enough to get a wrench> on the nuts. I used #4 countersunk, stainless bolts, stainless washers and> stainless, fibered nuts.> > Gary Boothe> NX308MB> > > -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By:>> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
That's about what I had.GarySent from my iPhoneOn Jul 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Ohbejoyful wrote:> > Thanks for the information. I have about 3/8" of space for the nut and washer.Is that enough space?> > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> >> >> Joseph,>> >> Yes, they can be in the way if you are using bolts and nuts. I opened up a>> 1" access hole in the bottom of those gussets; just enough to get a wrench>> on the nuts. I used #4 countersunk, stainless bolts, stainless washers and>> stainless, fibered nuts.>> >> Gary Boothe>> NX308MB>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
That's about what I had.GarySent from my iPhoneOn Jul 8, 2013, at 11:23 AM, Ohbejoyful wrote:> > Thanks for the information. I have about 3/8" of space for the nut and washer.Is that enough space?> > > On Jul 7, 2013, at 11:13 PM, Gary Boothe wrote:> >> >> Joseph,>> >> Yes, they can be in the way if you are using bolts and nuts. I opened up a>> 1" access hole in the bottom of those gussets; just enough to get a wrench>> on the nuts. I used #4 countersunk, stainless bolts, stainless washers and>> stainless, fibered nuts.>> >> Gary Boothe>> NX308MB>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: Ohbejoyful
Exhaust leak?Did you verify each cylinder for proper size before assembly? I wouldn't guessit, but machine shops regularly get that sort of thing wrong. A good friendof mine was the editor of Hot Rod magazine at the time he rebuilt a Camaro enginefor me. He sent the block off for machining and when it came back, he checkedthe crank bearings and found some off tolerance. Had to send it back a coupletimes before he was happy.He was the editor of a national car magazine, if there's ANY customer you'd wantto do a good job for (and it was a well known performance shop in LA), you'dthink it would be him. I just assumed when you send something like that out,it would be right. He said that was pretty normal... For a really good enginebuild, you have to verify all that stuff yourself he always told me.Doesn't usually result in catastrophic failure, but will easily affect how longthe rebuild is good for. Wouldn't have to be too much too small to cause that... Perhaps something as simpleas that cylinder wasn't honed as much as the others. Maybe ring gap toosmall? Would heat that cylinder up a lot more, with corresponding piston swell.Nice to know what happened in any event.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Exhaust leak?Did you verify each cylinder for proper size before assembly? I wouldn't guessit, but machine shops regularly get that sort of thing wrong. A good friendof mine was the editor of Hot Rod magazine at the time he rebuilt a Camaro enginefor me. He sent the block off for machining and when it came back, he checkedthe crank bearings and found some off tolerance. Had to send it back a coupletimes before he was happy.He was the editor of a national car magazine, if there's ANY customer you'd wantto do a good job for (and it was a well known performance shop in LA), you'dthink it would be him. I just assumed when you send something like that out,it would be right. He said that was pretty normal... For a really good enginebuild, you have to verify all that stuff yourself he always told me.Doesn't usually result in catastrophic failure, but will easily affect how longthe rebuild is good for. Wouldn't have to be too much too small to cause that... Perhaps something as simpleas that cylinder wasn't honed as much as the others. Maybe ring gap toosmall? Would heat that cylinder up a lot more, with corresponding piston swell.Nice to know what happened in any event.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: shad bell
Thanks. This is helpful information.On Jul 8, 2013, at 2:59 PM, tools wrote:> > N2RN simply has the nuts squeezed in there, so there's enough room, just barely.I've been referencing the display bare bones Piet in the Piet hangar as OSHwhile building my tail feathers at Pioneer, it's got access holes cut in thegusset plates.> > Third idea is what I saw on the hinges of the J1 Standard wing I worked on, ithad the nuts brazed to a plate, which made the whole mess a lot easier to workon. Also, the hinges could be removed for covering. It would prevent youfrom having to get a wrench in the tight spot on the very outboard hinge bolts.> > The plate was held in place with brads like those used on the gusset plates.Worked really well.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 220#404220> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 20:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
Thanks. This is helpful information.On Jul 8, 2013, at 2:59 PM, tools wrote:> > N2RN simply has the nuts squeezed in there, so there's enough room, just barely.I've been referencing the display bare bones Piet in the Piet hangar as OSHwhile building my tail feathers at Pioneer, it's got access holes cut in thegusset plates.> > Third idea is what I saw on the hinges of the J1 Standard wing I worked on, ithad the nuts brazed to a plate, which made the whole mess a lot easier to workon. Also, the hinges could be removed for covering. It would prevent youfrom having to get a wrench in the tight spot on the very outboard hinge bolts.> > The plate was held in place with brads like those used on the gusset plates.Worked really well.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 220#404220> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 20:17:04 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: "tools"
I missed the call out on the plans for the 1/8 plywood piece that reinforces thehinges. Instead, I used 1/16th. On the h.s. do think I would be OK gluing another1/16 doubler there?--------Joe PringleAtlanta, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
I missed the call out on the plans for the 1/8 plywood piece that reinforces thehinges. Instead, I used 1/16th. On the h.s. do think I would be OK gluing another1/16 doubler there?--------Joe PringleAtlanta, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB"
Mine doesn't have any at all... so ya, it'll be fine just gluing in another layer.I'm gonna retrofit metal plates like the Std.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Mine doesn't have any at all... so ya, it'll be fine just gluing in another layer.I'm gonna retrofit metal plates like the Std.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks a lot guys
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks a lot guys UNCLASSIFIEDThanks, guys, you jinxed me. Tonight, I saw a small solidified drip of epoxy on a floorboard. Easy, I grabbeda razor and determined to trim it off. About the time I thought, "I should reallyslow down and do this right." The blade cut through the epoxy and jabbedinto the fleshy part of my palm, next to my thumb. At least the blood somewhatmatched the dark stain I had used. Then again, most of my successful projects have been baptized with a blood sacrifice.Maybe this will get my projects back on track. So maybe you are forgiven.Blue Skies,Steve D.UNCLASSIFIED________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks a lot guys
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks a lot guys UNCLASSIFIEDThanks, guys, you jinxed me. Tonight, I saw a small solidified drip of epoxy on a floorboard. Easy, I grabbeda razor and determined to trim it off. About the time I thought, "I should reallyslow down and do this right." The blade cut through the epoxy and jabbedinto the fleshy part of my palm, next to my thumb. At least the blood somewhatmatched the dark stain I had used. Then again, most of my successful projects have been baptized with a blood sacrifice.Maybe this will get my projects back on track. So maybe you are forgiven.Blue Skies,Steve D.UNCLASSIFIED________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Thanks a lot guys
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: "jarheadpilot82"
I've already got my ticket to MKE from DAL. I guess we'll see you there.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
I've already got my ticket to MKE from DAL. I guess we'll see you there.--------Curt MerdanFlower Mound, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ MIL USA NGB"
Tools,Take a picture of the brazed nut plate the next time you are working on the J-1.My simple brain works better with a picture.BTW, missed you in AMS.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Tools,Take a picture of the brazed nut plate the next time you are working on the J-1.My simple brain works better with a picture.BTW, missed you in AMS.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: "tools"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts UNCLASSIFIEDRemember tools, If you can fake sincerity the rest is easy!Steve D On 07/16/13, tools wrote:> > The technique is referred to as "faux wood finishing" and has been around a LONGtime. VERY common in the colonial days to paint nasty ordinary common hardwoods like cherry and walnut, to look like mahogany. Seriously, they'd paintit brown and fake the entire job! > > Point being, it really can be convincing, it's well documented and there's quitea number of tools out there that can help. Just start researching faux woodfinishing techniques.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 762#404762> > > > > > > UNCLASSIFIED________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood vs steel struts UNCLASSIFIEDRemember tools, If you can fake sincerity the rest is easy!Steve D On 07/16/13, tools wrote:> > The technique is referred to as "faux wood finishing" and has been around a LONGtime. VERY common in the colonial days to paint nasty ordinary common hardwoods like cherry and walnut, to look like mahogany. Seriously, they'd paintit brown and fake the entire job! > > Point being, it really can be convincing, it's well documented and there's quitea number of tools out there that can help. Just start researching faux woodfinishing techniques.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 762#404762> > > > > > > UNCLASSIFIED________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail Hinges
Original Posted By: tools
my buddy had a Morgan in Park Hills, Mo. Steel chassis, wood frame and sheet metal over it. Kingpin front suspension. It would go about 11 miles until it started to overheat. We used to take it to a restaurant in Bismarck, Mo about 10 miles away and get lunch and let it cool then drive it back to his house. He was too cheap to take it to a mechanic. He left it to his daughter when he passed on. She may still have it or maybe she sold it.dennis-----Original Message-----
my buddy had a Morgan in Park Hills, Mo. Steel chassis, wood frame and sheet metal over it. Kingpin front suspension. It would go about 11 miles until it started to overheat. We used to take it to a restaurant in Bismarck, Mo about 10 miles away and get lunch and let it cool then drive it back to his house. He was too cheap to take it to a mechanic. He left it to his daughter when he passed on. She may still have it or maybe she sold it.dennis-----Original Message-----