Original Posted By: "Robert"
Dear fellow Aircamper friends,I made a plea a few weeks ago about my need for steel tube fuselage plans and wanted to thank those who responded.HOWEVER, I am still in the dark here. (or at least the shadows) I was aware and DO have the line drawings of a steel tube fuselage that are on the 1937 drawings but these line drawings say nothing of wing, tailfeather, landing gear or other attachment details.Rather than asking each "steel tube" Pietenpol builder to re-invent all these wheels, I thought surely that somewhere out there sombody has documented this. If not, perhaps I can volenteer. I am a mechanical enginner but not an aeronautical however.If any of you folks are flying a steel tube Piet, send me digital photos, drawings or any info regarding this to:allenfarleysmith(at)hotmail.comI will start building a file that is specific to the steel tube fuselage. If I do not recieve some help here, I may forego the Aircamper and build a composite amphibian. ( I am a designer working in the fast paced, emerging electric vehicle industry and when I get home, I would like to build in a meditative fashion and not a worrysome one which will require lots of guess work.)......if I wanted that, I'd build a Wright flyer.Thanks, and forgive my sarcasm I just thought it would prompt a larger response.Allen SmithVP R & DeGO Vehicles, Inc.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 01/05/01
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 01/05/01
Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Allen, I have the feeling that your last note WILL elicit a large response! I'll add my voice to the chorus. If you don't want a Pietenpol, then there are a ton of plan sets out there that are already all worked-out for buidling up a complete airplane from tubing.The apathy towards your cause may be due to a bunch of people who are happy to be building WOOD Pietenpols. We all came to the Piet after we'd all looked at all the other designs, but loved the Piet not in spite of the wood construction, but because of it. Here you'll find ATP's, A&P/IA's, NASA employees, aeronautical engineers and many skilled craftsmen, who love to work the wood. To many of us, wood is warm and beautiful and STRONG. Metal is cold, utilitarian, with no character. You can only tell a metal tube fuselage is yours by your welding trademark. We can recognize our structures because we get to know its grain, we know each stick in that thing. and we trust it. No, there won't be much sympathy here for someone wanting to metalize a Piet. I'm not sure why you look down your nose so badly at wood though. Look in this months EAA Experimenter Magazine, there's a short article on wood construction as it relates to spars. As a mechanical engineer, I'm sure you're familiar with metal fatigue. While wood does crack and break, it is much more resilient that metal. It will absorb vibration and stress and over time will not fail due to that buildup. Wood will rot. Metal will corrode. Both materials have their place, and their following. You won't find a whole lot of metal Piet builders here.Someday, I do hope to build an RV-6, that's all metal. Different material, different mission. I want my Cub replica that I hope to build to be steel tube. I may want my RV6 to be riveted sheet metal, but I want my Piet wood. Each to his own. As Mr. Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that".I wish you luck in your efforts to find your perfect airplane. We have all found ours, and it's made of wood.Best Wishes,Gary MeadowsWood fuselage, Wood tailfeathers, and wood ribs. Each one alike, each with it's own personality.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:13:45 -0500
Allen, I have the feeling that your last note WILL elicit a large response! I'll add my voice to the chorus. If you don't want a Pietenpol, then there are a ton of plan sets out there that are already all worked-out for buidling up a complete airplane from tubing.The apathy towards your cause may be due to a bunch of people who are happy to be building WOOD Pietenpols. We all came to the Piet after we'd all looked at all the other designs, but loved the Piet not in spite of the wood construction, but because of it. Here you'll find ATP's, A&P/IA's, NASA employees, aeronautical engineers and many skilled craftsmen, who love to work the wood. To many of us, wood is warm and beautiful and STRONG. Metal is cold, utilitarian, with no character. You can only tell a metal tube fuselage is yours by your welding trademark. We can recognize our structures because we get to know its grain, we know each stick in that thing. and we trust it. No, there won't be much sympathy here for someone wanting to metalize a Piet. I'm not sure why you look down your nose so badly at wood though. Look in this months EAA Experimenter Magazine, there's a short article on wood construction as it relates to spars. As a mechanical engineer, I'm sure you're familiar with metal fatigue. While wood does crack and break, it is much more resilient that metal. It will absorb vibration and stress and over time will not fail due to that buildup. Wood will rot. Metal will corrode. Both materials have their place, and their following. You won't find a whole lot of metal Piet builders here.Someday, I do hope to build an RV-6, that's all metal. Different material, different mission. I want my Cub replica that I hope to build to be steel tube. I may want my RV6 to be riveted sheet metal, but I want my Piet wood. Each to his own. As Mr. Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that".I wish you luck in your efforts to find your perfect airplane. We have all found ours, and it's made of wood.Best Wishes,Gary MeadowsWood fuselage, Wood tailfeathers, and wood ribs. Each one alike, each with it's own personality.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:13:45 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Exhaust
Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Re: Pietenpol-List: A-65 Exhaust
Original Posted By: Don Mosher
Re: Pietenpol-List: Building up a Continental A-65
Original Posted By: "Don Mosher"
My Mentor friend and "Continental Guru" told me about this when I wasrebuilding. He did say that you can do that only if the connecting rodshave the lube hole in the crank end bearing. ( The earlier ones didn't)Guess this was to lubricate at the higher rpms.His opinion also was that power increase was not that noticeable, so if youhave to replace pistons anyway, put in the 75's. But in my case the pistonswere good, so he thought it wasn't worth the money to throw the good onesout.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
My Mentor friend and "Continental Guru" told me about this when I wasrebuilding. He did say that you can do that only if the connecting rodshave the lube hole in the crank end bearing. ( The earlier ones didn't)Guess this was to lubricate at the higher rpms.His opinion also was that power increase was not that noticeable, so if youhave to replace pistons anyway, put in the 75's. But in my case the pistonswere good, so he thought it wasn't worth the money to throw the good onesout.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Building up a Continental A-65
Original Posted By: "Michael King"
Doc, I had been looking through the overhaul maunual, thinking that did look like the thing to do! Considering the weight of the pilot(me), 10 extra horses will come in real handy, especially in August down here near Houston!Thanks for the tip, Doc, A-75 it is!GaryGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________
Doc, I had been looking through the overhaul maunual, thinking that did look like the thing to do! Considering the weight of the pilot(me), 10 extra horses will come in real handy, especially in August down here near Houston!Thanks for the tip, Doc, A-75 it is!GaryGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Building up a Continental A-65
Original Posted By: Gary Meadows
Doc & Gary,For what it is worth, I have an A-80 in myGN-1. It was built in 1940. I have theengine manual that also includes the A-65,A-75 and the A-80. I believe the block startsoff as an A-65 and depending on a fewmodifications, different horsepowerdesignations are derived.I am not an engine mechanic, only a guywith an engine manual with this information.There is probably not MUCH difference betweenthe A-65 and the supposedly higher horsepowerratings using the same block.Also, what size prop would one recommend?I have a metal 69x39 but not happy with it.Thanks.Mike KingGN-177MKDallas, Texas214 905-9299----- Original Message -----
Doc & Gary,For what it is worth, I have an A-80 in myGN-1. It was built in 1940. I have theengine manual that also includes the A-65,A-75 and the A-80. I believe the block startsoff as an A-65 and depending on a fewmodifications, different horsepowerdesignations are derived.I am not an engine mechanic, only a guywith an engine manual with this information.There is probably not MUCH difference betweenthe A-65 and the supposedly higher horsepowerratings using the same block.Also, what size prop would one recommend?I have a metal 69x39 but not happy with it.Thanks.Mike KingGN-177MKDallas, Texas214 905-9299----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Building up a Continental A-65
Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 01/05/01
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
again, thanks to Gary Meadows for a true heart-felt response to my request for Aircamper steel tube fuselage information.just to keep this rolling, I would like to add a little more here.I hate to see this turn into a contest between materials here. It is all too easy to reduce things to this. Point is, we all have our fondness for particular materials and for me, it is more about openness and willingness to accept the strengths and weakness of all, and apply their use as each individual sees fit.As for WOOD:I LOVE WOOD. I Co-formed the "Traditional Watercraft and Maritime Society". I have built and crashed hundreds of wooden model aircraft,and have sailed to the Bahamas and flow to Mexico in wooden craft.As for Steel:"Cold, Utilitarian and with no character"?..... My life for the past 8 years has been sustained by designing and building original furniture. All in steel and believe me, I have a few clients who would disagree. Clients who have appreciated the beauty of steel enough to lay down $10,000+ dollars/piece for artistic steel furniture which was designed and built with character and warmth.I tend to agree with Gary that wood, as an organic material seems "warm" and steel, if left out in the cold, seems......well, cold. However, I want to build an airplane here, not a teddy bear. No one is looking down any noses here and if Gary speaks for the Pietenpol group as a whole, I fear that such attitudes will tend to predestine the group to obscurity.No disrespect is intended here. I am a Pietenpol Aircamper builder and whether I am welcomed into the group or shunned by purist will not affect my appreciation for a fine craft.......anybody have any information on building a steel tube "Pietenpol" Aircamper fuselage? I am using a wooden spar and tailfeathers....I promise.Thanks,Allen SmithGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________
again, thanks to Gary Meadows for a true heart-felt response to my request for Aircamper steel tube fuselage information.just to keep this rolling, I would like to add a little more here.I hate to see this turn into a contest between materials here. It is all too easy to reduce things to this. Point is, we all have our fondness for particular materials and for me, it is more about openness and willingness to accept the strengths and weakness of all, and apply their use as each individual sees fit.As for WOOD:I LOVE WOOD. I Co-formed the "Traditional Watercraft and Maritime Society". I have built and crashed hundreds of wooden model aircraft,and have sailed to the Bahamas and flow to Mexico in wooden craft.As for Steel:"Cold, Utilitarian and with no character"?..... My life for the past 8 years has been sustained by designing and building original furniture. All in steel and believe me, I have a few clients who would disagree. Clients who have appreciated the beauty of steel enough to lay down $10,000+ dollars/piece for artistic steel furniture which was designed and built with character and warmth.I tend to agree with Gary that wood, as an organic material seems "warm" and steel, if left out in the cold, seems......well, cold. However, I want to build an airplane here, not a teddy bear. No one is looking down any noses here and if Gary speaks for the Pietenpol group as a whole, I fear that such attitudes will tend to predestine the group to obscurity.No disrespect is intended here. I am a Pietenpol Aircamper builder and whether I am welcomed into the group or shunned by purist will not affect my appreciation for a fine craft.......anybody have any information on building a steel tube "Pietenpol" Aircamper fuselage? I am using a wooden spar and tailfeathers....I promise.Thanks,Allen SmithGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 01/05/01
Original Posted By: "allen smith"
Allen,When I ordered my Piet plans from Don Pietenpol , I rec'd a steel tubeprint. Do you have this? and is this what you're looking for?walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Allen,When I ordered my Piet plans from Don Pietenpol , I rec'd a steel tubeprint. Do you have this? and is this what you're looking for?walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 01/05/01
Original Posted By: JOEL CARROLL
Allen, I had a snippy reply all written up and ready to send, but I decided it wasn't in the best interests of the group to send it out.I hope you can find someone to help you in your quest for the steel Piet. As an engineer, I'd imagine that you should be able to work out any design problems, and who knows, even improve it. But like so many of us like to say, "It wouldn't be a real Piet". Maybe though, it'll be your flavor of Piet. Whatever you do, don't study too long, build something.I'd also like to say, that we Piet builders are all pretty traditional folks, and wood is the traditional material to use. Most of us like it. BHP preferred it. It's easy to use and doesn't require that much skill to build. But if you have the skills an inclination, then by all means go for it. The wooden Piet is a beautiful thing. I guess I got defensive with what I felt was an attitude the wood somehow wasn't good enough. Either way you go, you'll end up with a beautiful, strong airplane. That's what it's all about. It really was a good note though......Sincerely,Gary Wood Meadows - yep Wood is my real middle name....it figures.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:14:52 -0800 (PST)
Allen, I had a snippy reply all written up and ready to send, but I decided it wasn't in the best interests of the group to send it out.I hope you can find someone to help you in your quest for the steel Piet. As an engineer, I'd imagine that you should be able to work out any design problems, and who knows, even improve it. But like so many of us like to say, "It wouldn't be a real Piet". Maybe though, it'll be your flavor of Piet. Whatever you do, don't study too long, build something.I'd also like to say, that we Piet builders are all pretty traditional folks, and wood is the traditional material to use. Most of us like it. BHP preferred it. It's easy to use and doesn't require that much skill to build. But if you have the skills an inclination, then by all means go for it. The wooden Piet is a beautiful thing. I guess I got defensive with what I felt was an attitude the wood somehow wasn't good enough. Either way you go, you'll end up with a beautiful, strong airplane. That's what it's all about. It really was a good note though......Sincerely,Gary Wood Meadows - yep Wood is my real middle name....it figures.Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:14:52 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 01/05/01
Original Posted By: "Robert"
Joel, You're right, and good for you for building in steel. Seriously, You guys ought to make a subsection of the aircamper.org site dedicated to steel Piets, and keep the rest of us woodies apprised of your progress, especially in the weight department. John in Peoria just mentioned that steel-Piets might be lighter. It would be interesting to see how that plays out once the airplane is finished. If it's true, then Steel-Piets ought to be seeing finished weights in the neighborhood of 600lbs or less. We might be having a popular uprising here!Joel, if I offended you, I'm sorry about that. If you're building a Piet, then you are to be commended, no matter what you build in. I also apologize to the List. I was out of line, and get a little carried away sometimes. I thought Allen might be trying to put us woodies down. He wasn't and we worked it out. Steel is good, wood is good. Just goes to show what too much idle time will do. I should be out in the shop, instead of sitting at this silly plastic box! Now we can all get back to making sawdust and steel shavings! :)Gary MeadowsGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________
Joel, You're right, and good for you for building in steel. Seriously, You guys ought to make a subsection of the aircamper.org site dedicated to steel Piets, and keep the rest of us woodies apprised of your progress, especially in the weight department. John in Peoria just mentioned that steel-Piets might be lighter. It would be interesting to see how that plays out once the airplane is finished. If it's true, then Steel-Piets ought to be seeing finished weights in the neighborhood of 600lbs or less. We might be having a popular uprising here!Joel, if I offended you, I'm sorry about that. If you're building a Piet, then you are to be commended, no matter what you build in. I also apologize to the List. I was out of line, and get a little carried away sometimes. I thought Allen might be trying to put us woodies down. He wasn't and we worked it out. Steel is good, wood is good. Just goes to show what too much idle time will do. I should be out in the shop, instead of sitting at this silly plastic box! Now we can all get back to making sawdust and steel shavings! :)Gary MeadowsGet your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com________________________________________________________________________________