Original Posted By: Doug413(at)aol.com
Has anybody given any thought to adding a measure of aluminium powder to a light colour, (or silvar) latex paint under coat,for the UV protection, then just paint a color coat over the top.It seems to me that if this would work, it could make for a durable and pretty cheep paint job over dacron aircraft fabric.Bob________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: logons
Original Posted By: Chris Tracy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thoughtIn a message dated 2/8/01 4:17:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com writes:> Has anybody given any thought to adding a measure of aluminium powder to a > light colour, (or silvar) latex paint under coat,for the UV protection, > then just paint a color coat over the top.> > It seems to me that if this would work, it could make for a durable and > pretty cheep paint job over dacron aircraft fabric.> > Bob,Might work. Test it! I used oil based paint on my second piet (the Bryant Gantzer piet) and would be interested in conducting a test using same. BHP also used oil based paints on some of his later aircraft. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:46:45 -0800Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: logons
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thoughtIn a message dated 2/8/01 4:17:43 PM Pacific Standard Time, oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com writes:> Has anybody given any thought to adding a measure of aluminium powder to a > light colour, (or silvar) latex paint under coat,for the UV protection, > then just paint a color coat over the top.> > It seems to me that if this would work, it could make for a durable and > pretty cheep paint job over dacron aircraft fabric.> > Bob,Might work. Test it! I used oil based paint on my second piet (the Bryant Gantzer piet) and would be interested in conducting a test using same. BHP also used oil based paints on some of his later aircraft. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:46:45 -0800Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: logons
Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Original Posted By: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thoughtIn a message dated 2/8/01 6:17:43 PM Central Standard Time, oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com writes:>Bob, the paint that we've been using is Rust-Oleum Oil Based Enamel pt.#7715 Aluminum. This paint is flexible, and has alot of aluminum powder in it. We use this paint for a UV blocker, and to 'set' the fabric weave. The first coat has to be carefully applied, by dipping the brush only about 1/4" in the paint, and carefully applying it, so as not to make runs on the inside of the shrunk fabric. The two successive coats may be applied a little heavier. A color top coat can then be applied, after lightly sanding the Aluminum Paint.Chuck GantzerWichita KS________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thoughtIn a message dated 2/8/01 6:17:43 PM Central Standard Time, oilcanbob(at)hotmail.com writes:>Bob, the paint that we've been using is Rust-Oleum Oil Based Enamel pt.#7715 Aluminum. This paint is flexible, and has alot of aluminum powder in it. We use this paint for a UV blocker, and to 'set' the fabric weave. The first coat has to be carefully applied, by dipping the brush only about 1/4" in the paint, and carefully applying it, so as not to make runs on the inside of the shrunk fabric. The two successive coats may be applied a little heavier. A color top coat can then be applied, after lightly sanding the Aluminum Paint.Chuck GantzerWichita KS________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Original Posted By: "oil can"
Bob,There has been a little bit mentioned about that sort of thing on variouslists, fly5K (up and flying for less than $5K is the object of the membersof that list) is one. IMHO aircraft are aircraft, houses are houses. Thefabric on an aircraft go though millions of flex cycles. The old coverprocess were good for about 10 years, Stits came along and developed theStits Poly-Fiber process using modern technology in the late 50s and early60s effectively added 5 more years to the expected life of fabric. Nowthere is Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS) which has an even longer expectedlife with out the obnoxious chemicals of the Stits or Randolph products. Ifcheap on the price of fabric supplies is what you want (house paint) cheapis what you are going to get. For all of us on the ground, please useaircraft parts for aircraft and house parts on houses.Noel Simmons A&P ownerBlue Sky Aviationwww.blskyav.com----- Original Message -----
Bob,There has been a little bit mentioned about that sort of thing on variouslists, fly5K (up and flying for less than $5K is the object of the membersof that list) is one. IMHO aircraft are aircraft, houses are houses. Thefabric on an aircraft go though millions of flex cycles. The old coverprocess were good for about 10 years, Stits came along and developed theStits Poly-Fiber process using modern technology in the late 50s and early60s effectively added 5 more years to the expected life of fabric. Nowthere is Aircraft Finishing Systems (AFS) which has an even longer expectedlife with out the obnoxious chemicals of the Stits or Randolph products. Ifcheap on the price of fabric supplies is what you want (house paint) cheapis what you are going to get. For all of us on the ground, please useaircraft parts for aircraft and house parts on houses.Noel Simmons A&P ownerBlue Sky Aviationwww.blskyav.com----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Original Posted By: oil can
I know a guy who used latex house paint with alum powder and latex color fortop coats on a minimax and he has almost 9 years on it. Looks good and nocracks. He does keep it hangered though.I know another guy who built a Fisher Youngster with about the same methodalthough he may have just used a silver paint for the base.Both guys talked about being real careful on the first two coats so not toget runs inside the fabric.GregGridley, KS----- Original Message -----
I know a guy who used latex house paint with alum powder and latex color fortop coats on a minimax and he has almost 9 years on it. Looks good and nocracks. He does keep it hangered though.I know another guy who built a Fisher Youngster with about the same methodalthough he may have just used a silver paint for the base.Both guys talked about being real careful on the first two coats so not toget runs inside the fabric.GregGridley, KS----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Original Posted By: "Greg Yotz"
I thought that the whole reason for having an experimental aircraft was for just that - experimentation! The fact that there are several very good finishing systems that are certified for aircraft is great, but to think that they are the only way to do things I believe goes against the whole intent of experimental airfcraft. If someone wants to paint an aircraft with latex or oil housepaint, I am all for it! Yes, the more expensive finishing systems will probably last longer, but most of these planes see very little direct sunlight anyway, that is if they're in a hangar. If they're not hangared, then the best system won't last long. As long as some UV block is used it's probably okay. Aircraft finishes may have been tested to see how well they stood up to the flex cycles, house paint surely wasn't not. There's the experimentation again. House paint may or not stand up to the flex cycles who knows? Steve E. seems to be having very good luck with his Piet, and it's latex painted. I think as long as you build it strong, and use a good strong covering with proper adhesives, then whatever the coating shouldn't be a problem. I'm still thinking about using house paint myself, even though I personally lean toward aircraft finishing system. Have fun!Gary MeadowsA&P & Pietenpol BuilderSpring, TX________________________________________________________________________________
I thought that the whole reason for having an experimental aircraft was for just that - experimentation! The fact that there are several very good finishing systems that are certified for aircraft is great, but to think that they are the only way to do things I believe goes against the whole intent of experimental airfcraft. If someone wants to paint an aircraft with latex or oil housepaint, I am all for it! Yes, the more expensive finishing systems will probably last longer, but most of these planes see very little direct sunlight anyway, that is if they're in a hangar. If they're not hangared, then the best system won't last long. As long as some UV block is used it's probably okay. Aircraft finishes may have been tested to see how well they stood up to the flex cycles, house paint surely wasn't not. There's the experimentation again. House paint may or not stand up to the flex cycles who knows? Steve E. seems to be having very good luck with his Piet, and it's latex painted. I think as long as you build it strong, and use a good strong covering with proper adhesives, then whatever the coating shouldn't be a problem. I'm still thinking about using house paint myself, even though I personally lean toward aircraft finishing system. Have fun!Gary MeadowsA&P & Pietenpol BuilderSpring, TX________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Original Posted By: Dmott9(at)aol.com
With regard to paint, Gary Meadows observed:> I thought that the whole reason for having an experimental aircraft was> for just that - experimentation! (etc.)Does anyone know how Pietenpol himself did it? I'd always assumedhe used butyrate or nitrate dope, whichever seemed best when he wasbuilding whichever plane. However, on thinking about it, it seems likelythat he would have looked for a cheaper, more convenient alternative,just as he did with powerplants. I can't seem to find my copy of theFlying & Glider Manual to see whether the issue is mentioned there.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________
With regard to paint, Gary Meadows observed:> I thought that the whole reason for having an experimental aircraft was> for just that - experimentation! (etc.)Does anyone know how Pietenpol himself did it? I'd always assumedhe used butyrate or nitrate dope, whichever seemed best when he wasbuilding whichever plane. However, on thinking about it, it seems likelythat he would have looked for a cheaper, more convenient alternative,just as he did with powerplants. I can't seem to find my copy of theFlying & Glider Manual to see whether the issue is mentioned there.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Bruhn's (was "spar weight")
Original Posted By: JOEL CARROLL
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bruhn's (was "spar weight")In a message dated 02/09/2001 8:03:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, gcardinal(at)startribune.com writes:>If these are scanned as B&W and least-best resolution, they shouldn't take up that much space. 100-150K per would figure out to no more than 3 megs. Photopoint.com has picture space, 25meg free and all you need is an email address to sign up. This would be ideal also for those of you who'd like to "show-n-tell" your projects.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:15:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bruhn's (was "spar weight")In a message dated 02/09/2001 8:03:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, gcardinal(at)startribune.com writes:>If these are scanned as B&W and least-best resolution, they shouldn't take up that much space. 100-150K per would figure out to no more than 3 megs. Photopoint.com has picture space, 25meg free and all you need is an email address to sign up. This would be ideal also for those of you who'd like to "show-n-tell" your projects.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 11:15:09 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Kip G.
Original Posted By: "Kip Gardner/OCEN/SCI/ODU"
Why no runs? At the polyfiber booth at Osh they let you do some hands on covering and they would hold it up so you could see the runs on the inside. The instructor said you want to see these runs because it was proof that the stuff was penetrating the fabric. Seems that it was hard to make stuff stick to polyester, so the idea was to lock the coating in between the fibers. The workshop was free so maybe I got what I paid for, but it convinced me that if you can build the plane, you have enough skills to cover it adequately.Joe>From: "Greg Yotz" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:28:09 -0600>>>I know a guy who used latex house paint with alum powder and latex color >for>top coats on a minimax and he has almost 9 years on it. Looks good and no>cracks. He does keep it hangered though.>I know another guy who built a Fisher Youngster with about the same method>although he may have just used a silver paint for the base.>Both guys talked about being real careful on the first two coats so not to>get runs inside the fabric.>>Greg>Gridley, KS>>>----- Original Message ----->From: oil can >To: >Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:16 AM>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought>>> >> > Has anybody given any thought to adding a measure of aluminium powder to >a> > light colour, (or silvar) latex paint under coat,for the UV protection,> > then just paint a color coat over the top.> >> > It seems to me that if this would work, it could make for a durable and> > pretty cheep paint job over dacron aircraft fabric.> >> > Bob> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Kip G.
Why no runs? At the polyfiber booth at Osh they let you do some hands on covering and they would hold it up so you could see the runs on the inside. The instructor said you want to see these runs because it was proof that the stuff was penetrating the fabric. Seems that it was hard to make stuff stick to polyester, so the idea was to lock the coating in between the fibers. The workshop was free so maybe I got what I paid for, but it convinced me that if you can build the plane, you have enough skills to cover it adequately.Joe>From: "Greg Yotz" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:28:09 -0600>>>I know a guy who used latex house paint with alum powder and latex color >for>top coats on a minimax and he has almost 9 years on it. Looks good and no>cracks. He does keep it hangered though.>I know another guy who built a Fisher Youngster with about the same method>although he may have just used a silver paint for the base.>Both guys talked about being real careful on the first two coats so not to>get runs inside the fabric.>>Greg>Gridley, KS>>>----- Original Message ----->From: oil can >To: >Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:16 AM>Subject: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought>>> >> > Has anybody given any thought to adding a measure of aluminium powder to >a> > light colour, (or silvar) latex paint under coat,for the UV protection,> > then just paint a color coat over the top.> >> > It seems to me that if this would work, it could make for a durable and> > pretty cheep paint job over dacron aircraft fabric.> >> > Bob> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Kip G.
Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
02/09/2001 03:39:25 PMHi Mike (& everyone else),This is sure an active list, I doubt I'll be able to kepp up as much as I'dlike! It's a kind of slow day at work today (almost everyone has gone offto a big Ocean Sciences meeting in New Mexico), so I have a little moretime to respond than I normally would. Thanks to everyone for the responses& advice, it's what I was hoping for. I'll contribute as I can. One thingI will throw in right now for those who are in the early stages ofbuilding. I visited Andrew Pietenpol this summer to buy plans & he showedme around his hangar & shop. He is building a new Piet (the 'LatestOriginal'?), currently with the fuse & wings both about 50% done. Anyway,he strongly suggested installing 9 turtledeck stringers instead of the 7called for in the plans - makes for a much smoother looking surface with aminimal addition of weight.Mike, thanks particularly for the advice & encouragement about moving toOH. We will actually be living in North Canton, I just say Akron becausemost people know where that is but say 'huh?' when I say Canton. Anyway,after living down here in SE Va. for 30-odd years, where everything isspread out across about 100 miles, Akron feels like it's right next doorto Canton
. I'll look forward to catching up with you & Frank Pavligawhen we get settled.Regards,Kip GardnerLaboratory Manager, ODUDept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences4600 Elkhorn AvenueNorfolk, VA 23529(757)683-5654Bumper Sticker of the Week:"Earth First! (We'll Trash the Other Planets Later)"________________________________________________________________________________
02/09/2001 03:39:25 PMHi Mike (& everyone else),This is sure an active list, I doubt I'll be able to kepp up as much as I'dlike! It's a kind of slow day at work today (almost everyone has gone offto a big Ocean Sciences meeting in New Mexico), so I have a little moretime to respond than I normally would. Thanks to everyone for the responses& advice, it's what I was hoping for. I'll contribute as I can. One thingI will throw in right now for those who are in the early stages ofbuilding. I visited Andrew Pietenpol this summer to buy plans & he showedme around his hangar & shop. He is building a new Piet (the 'LatestOriginal'?), currently with the fuse & wings both about 50% done. Anyway,he strongly suggested installing 9 turtledeck stringers instead of the 7called for in the plans - makes for a much smoother looking surface with aminimal addition of weight.Mike, thanks particularly for the advice & encouragement about moving toOH. We will actually be living in North Canton, I just say Akron becausemost people know where that is but say 'huh?' when I say Canton. Anyway,after living down here in SE Va. for 30-odd years, where everything isspread out across about 100 miles, Akron feels like it's right next doorto Canton
. I'll look forward to catching up with you & Frank Pavligawhen we get settled.Regards,Kip GardnerLaboratory Manager, ODUDept. of Ocean, Earth & Atmospheric Sciences4600 Elkhorn AvenueNorfolk, VA 23529(757)683-5654Bumper Sticker of the Week:"Earth First! (We'll Trash the Other Planets Later)"________________________________________________________________________________RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet D-VIII?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
This is exactly what is being built here in Provo Utah. The project isabout half done and on the back burner for now, but the fuse has taken shapeand is on gear, and one wing is done. Builder is Gordon Nichol. Currentlyfinishing a 53' Yacht.Steve E-----Original Message-----
This is exactly what is being built here in Provo Utah. The project isabout half done and on the back burner for now, but the fuse has taken shapeand is on gear, and one wing is done. Builder is Gordon Nichol. Currentlyfinishing a 53' Yacht.Steve E-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thought
Original Posted By: "R deCosta"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thoughtIn a message dated 2/9/01 12:07:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, jkrzes(at)hotmail.com writes:> Why no runs? At the polyfiber booth at Osh they let you do some hands on > covering and they would hold it up so you could see the runs on the inside. > > The instructor said you want to see these runs because it was proof that > the > stuff was penetrating the fabric. Seems that it was hard to make stuff > stick to polyester, so the idea was to lock the coating in between the > fibers. The workshop was free so maybe I got what I paid for, but it > convinced me that if you can build the plane, you have enough skills to > cover it adequately.> > Joe, That is the right idea; just make sure your material wicks thru the fabric for a nice neat mechanical bond. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latex house paint .... a thoughtIn a message dated 2/9/01 12:07:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, jkrzes(at)hotmail.com writes:> Why no runs? At the polyfiber booth at Osh they let you do some hands on > covering and they would hold it up so you could see the runs on the inside. > > The instructor said you want to see these runs because it was proof that > the > stuff was penetrating the fabric. Seems that it was hard to make stuff > stick to polyester, so the idea was to lock the coating in between the > fibers. The workshop was free so maybe I got what I paid for, but it > convinced me that if you can build the plane, you have enough skills to > cover it adequately.> > Joe, That is the right idea; just make sure your material wicks thru the fabric for a nice neat mechanical bond. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________