Original Posted By: Steve Eldredge
I initially glued the leading edge (split round stair rail) on by justglueing to the nose of each rib. However, some of the glue joints have n=otheld, so it became clear to me that there is not enough glueing surface t=ohold the leading edge in this manner. The plans show using #8 machine screws to bolt the leading edge to theribs. I figured I ought to go back now and add these fasteners. I wonde=r,though, if hardware store bolts are good enough for this purpose, or isthere any loading in this area. Are a/c grade #8 machine screws in order=here?What do y'all think?John________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading edge
Original Posted By: jholgate
John m. Greenlee wrote:> I initially glued the leading edge (split round stair rail) on by just>> glueing to the nose of each rib. However, some of the glue joints> have not> held, so it became clear to me that there is not enough glueing> surface to> hold the leading edge in this manner.>> The plans show using #8 machine screws to bolt the leading edge to the>> ribs. I figured I ought to go back now and add these fasteners. I> wonder,> though, if hardware store bolts are good enough for this purpose, or> is> there any loading in this area. Are a/c grade #8 machine screws in> order> here?>> What do y'all think?>> John I used #8 stainless 1 3/4" countersunk screws bolted through the LE tothe rib. Stainless just becaus if I ever want to get them out I don'twant corrosion to have found it's way in.stevee________________________________________________________________________________
John m. Greenlee wrote:> I initially glued the leading edge (split round stair rail) on by just>> glueing to the nose of each rib. However, some of the glue joints> have not> held, so it became clear to me that there is not enough glueing> surface to> hold the leading edge in this manner.>> The plans show using #8 machine screws to bolt the leading edge to the>> ribs. I figured I ought to go back now and add these fasteners. I> wonder,> though, if hardware store bolts are good enough for this purpose, or> is> there any loading in this area. Are a/c grade #8 machine screws in> order> here?>> What do y'all think?>> John I used #8 stainless 1 3/4" countersunk screws bolted through the LE tothe rib. Stainless just becaus if I ever want to get them out I don'twant corrosion to have found it's way in.stevee________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
As Earl M. mentioned earlier I used standard stairway banisterhand railing for my wing leading edge. I bought 2 14 footers for thewing panels (3pce) and a three footer for the center section.Paid 1.00 or 1.50/ft. Two rip cuts thru the table saw and whala, the'D' shape/curve I needed was already there. Trace out a full size sketch of the 'D' shape you need, take it to the lumber yard andhold it up against the end profile of the various sizes of hand rail andthen pick out the straightest ones. After the rip cuts you'll notice thestress relief makes the l.e. wavy. This all irons out in the wash asyou begin screwing and gluing to the nose ribs. I have a sketch of thisand if anyone wants, send a sase to me...7720 Center Rd. Valley City, OH44280 Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
As Earl M. mentioned earlier I used standard stairway banisterhand railing for my wing leading edge. I bought 2 14 footers for thewing panels (3pce) and a three footer for the center section.Paid 1.00 or 1.50/ft. Two rip cuts thru the table saw and whala, the'D' shape/curve I needed was already there. Trace out a full size sketch of the 'D' shape you need, take it to the lumber yard andhold it up against the end profile of the various sizes of hand rail andthen pick out the straightest ones. After the rip cuts you'll notice thestress relief makes the l.e. wavy. This all irons out in the wash asyou begin screwing and gluing to the nose ribs. I have a sketch of thisand if anyone wants, send a sase to me...7720 Center Rd. Valley City, OH44280 Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading edge
Original Posted By: Michael Cuy
> I've got the full >set of official pietenpol plans, but can't find a template of the >shape! Is it on the plans somewhere? >>Thanks,>Joe KrzesJoe- Yes, the nose shape is on the plans and it shows the machine screw method of attatchment too. (ps- Pietenpolplans at first glance seem to be 'missing something' but it'samazing how much info is really there:)Mike C. I've got the full set of official pietenpol plans, but can't find a template of theshape! Is it on the plans somewhere? Thanks,Joe KrzesJoe- Yes, the nose shape is on the plans and it shows the machine screw method of attatchment too. (ps- Pietenpolplans at first glance seem to be 'missing something' but it'samazing how much info is really there:)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
> I've got the full >set of official pietenpol plans, but can't find a template of the >shape! Is it on the plans somewhere? >>Thanks,>Joe KrzesJoe- Yes, the nose shape is on the plans and it shows the machine screw method of attatchment too. (ps- Pietenpolplans at first glance seem to be 'missing something' but it'samazing how much info is really there:)Mike C. I've got the full set of official pietenpol plans, but can't find a template of theshape! Is it on the plans somewhere? Thanks,Joe KrzesJoe- Yes, the nose shape is on the plans and it shows the machine screw method of attatchment too. (ps- Pietenpolplans at first glance seem to be 'missing something' but it'samazing how much info is really there:)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Leading edge
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
Thanks Mike- I've now got about 50' of railing that will do the jobperfectly-at $0.35/ ft for seconds and thirds. It will take a bit ofscarfing, but in the end its an even easier idea than setting up the shaperfor multiple cutsMike________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Mike- I've now got about 50' of railing that will do the jobperfectly-at $0.35/ ft for seconds and thirds. It will take a bit ofscarfing, but in the end its an even easier idea than setting up the shaperfor multiple cutsMike________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: del magsam
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edgeCan yall give me their phone number? I searched for their site but itisnt working. Steve writes:> > > I can vouch for Midwest Marine Plywood. I purchased a sheet of > Okume plywood. Good quality wood and reasonable prices.> The guy who runs the place is very knowledable about marine plywood.> > Greg C.> > >>> Wayne Meier 02/18 9:43 AM >>>> > Steve,> > Do a search on "Midwest Marine Plywood" Located in Minnesota, > carries> all types of plywwod. Small company, airplane builder too.> > > > > Steve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:30:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edgeCan yall give me their phone number? I searched for their site but itisnt working. Steve writes:> > > I can vouch for Midwest Marine Plywood. I purchased a sheet of > Okume plywood. Good quality wood and reasonable prices.> The guy who runs the place is very knowledable about marine plywood.> > Greg C.> > >>> Wayne Meier 02/18 9:43 AM >>>> > Steve,> > Do a search on "Midwest Marine Plywood" Located in Minnesota, > carries> all types of plywwod. Small company, airplane builder too.> > > > > Steve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:30:55 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "Daryl Bortel"
Yesterday we went out to the hanger and worked on the leading edge of thewing. First, the scarf joint had been cut to join the two pieces and the sawwas set up to cut a "U" shaped channel in the back edge of the L.E., littlebitat a time. Then the front side was rough cut with an angle to the top andbottom side. All this reduced the weight of the L.E. by about half and makesit sort of limp. Then we glued it together, now it's 30 feet of limp.The scarf joint will be backed up by a layer of Oak Veneer, which I havehad around for some time, on the inside of the L.E. At each rib will be apiece of 3/4" cedar cut to match the "U" shape of the L.E., with the grainin line with the cord of the wing and glued in place.The L.E. will be glued to the ribs and held in place with long drywallscrewswhile curing. Once dry, the screws will be replaced and the holes drilledoutand a wood dowel inserted with glue.The excitement level is high.RodgerPiet in progress________________________________________________________________________________
Yesterday we went out to the hanger and worked on the leading edge of thewing. First, the scarf joint had been cut to join the two pieces and the sawwas set up to cut a "U" shaped channel in the back edge of the L.E., littlebitat a time. Then the front side was rough cut with an angle to the top andbottom side. All this reduced the weight of the L.E. by about half and makesit sort of limp. Then we glued it together, now it's 30 feet of limp.The scarf joint will be backed up by a layer of Oak Veneer, which I havehad around for some time, on the inside of the L.E. At each rib will be apiece of 3/4" cedar cut to match the "U" shape of the L.E., with the grainin line with the cord of the wing and glued in place.The L.E. will be glued to the ribs and held in place with long drywallscrewswhile curing. Once dry, the screws will be replaced and the holes drilledoutand a wood dowel inserted with glue.The excitement level is high.RodgerPiet in progress________________________________________________________________________________
junk mail
Original Posted By: "Carl Loar"
This is such a great country with really great ideas.This will save us a lot of money we could be spending on our "FlyingMachines".Subject: junk mail> Do You Hate Junk Mail?? - The Solution>> This is a fantastic idea - let's all try it!!> Here's a pretty good idea on what to do with junk mail.>> Here's the deal: Tired of getting all those pre-approved letters in themail> for everything from credit cards to 2nd Mortgages, and junk like that?> If the answer is, "Yes!" read on. If "no", read on anyway since many of us> don't care for banks and credit card companies anyway.> As you know, most -- if not all of those letters come with a postage> "PREPAID" envelope. Why not get rid of some of your other junk mail andput> it in these cool little envelopes?> If you didn't get anything else that day, then just send them their> application back! Just make sure your name isn't on anything you sendthem.> Heck, you can send it back empty if you want.> Keep 'em guessing that way.> Let's turn this into a chain letter! Eventually, the banks will begingetting> all their crap back in the mail.> Let's let them know what it's like to get junk mail, and best of all . . ..> THEY'RE paying for it . . . . Twice!> Only in America!> WAIT!!!!! HERE'S THE BEST PART;> You already know that the USPS has increased postage rates again, --starting> the first week of January 2001.>> Now, if all of us start mailing back all the junk mail we receive to other> junk mailers in their 'postage paid' envelopes........we just might delaythe> next rate hike from the USPS for years and years!!> Send this to a friend or two or three . . . .> Do it -- and thanks to you all.>________________________________________________________________________________
This is such a great country with really great ideas.This will save us a lot of money we could be spending on our "FlyingMachines".Subject: junk mail> Do You Hate Junk Mail?? - The Solution>> This is a fantastic idea - let's all try it!!> Here's a pretty good idea on what to do with junk mail.>> Here's the deal: Tired of getting all those pre-approved letters in themail> for everything from credit cards to 2nd Mortgages, and junk like that?> If the answer is, "Yes!" read on. If "no", read on anyway since many of us> don't care for banks and credit card companies anyway.> As you know, most -- if not all of those letters come with a postage> "PREPAID" envelope. Why not get rid of some of your other junk mail andput> it in these cool little envelopes?> If you didn't get anything else that day, then just send them their> application back! Just make sure your name isn't on anything you sendthem.> Heck, you can send it back empty if you want.> Keep 'em guessing that way.> Let's turn this into a chain letter! Eventually, the banks will begingetting> all their crap back in the mail.> Let's let them know what it's like to get junk mail, and best of all . . ..> THEY'RE paying for it . . . . Twice!> Only in America!> WAIT!!!!! HERE'S THE BEST PART;> You already know that the USPS has increased postage rates again, --starting> the first week of January 2001.>> Now, if all of us start mailing back all the junk mail we receive to other> junk mailers in their 'postage paid' envelopes........we just might delaythe> next rate hike from the USPS for years and years!!> Send this to a friend or two or three . . . .> Do it -- and thanks to you all.>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
Hi Pieters, I'm at the point on my Air Camper where the wing leading edgeplywood has to be installed. This question may have been addressed in thepast and if it has, I apoligize for bringing it up again. The plans call for9 inches of 1/16th ply from the leading edge to the top of the forward spar(it also states cardboard may be used!).....wouldn't it make more sense toalso wrap the plywood around to the bottom of the forward spar? I'verecovered a J-3 and an Aeronca Chief in the past that were covered withsheet aluminum in this fashion.Something else, whats the best way to ensure sufficient contact of the plyto the ribs while the epoxy cures? I prefer not to use nails even ifremoved. Thanks for your help in advance. Sam NX115SM (reserved number)________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Pieters, I'm at the point on my Air Camper where the wing leading edgeplywood has to be installed. This question may have been addressed in thepast and if it has, I apoligize for bringing it up again. The plans call for9 inches of 1/16th ply from the leading edge to the top of the forward spar(it also states cardboard may be used!).....wouldn't it make more sense toalso wrap the plywood around to the bottom of the forward spar? I'verecovered a J-3 and an Aeronca Chief in the past that were covered withsheet aluminum in this fashion.Something else, whats the best way to ensure sufficient contact of the plyto the ribs while the epoxy cures? I prefer not to use nails even ifremoved. Thanks for your help in advance. Sam NX115SM (reserved number)________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: Sam Marinucci
Sam, there are many ways to secure that leading edge. I have used bothstaple strips and pieces of inner tube with hooks on the end. Both goimmediately OVER the nose ribs. Use some T-88, and make sure that you get agood layer on the wood. If you want, you can mark where the ribs go on theinside of the plywood or aluminum (used both - not much difference), andrough it with scotchbrite (alum.) or sandpaper (plywood). If you are usingplywood, after marking the nose rib locations, use some spar or epoxyvarnish to seal the wood.If you are into work, you can also make a female mold arrangement to holdthe LE on while the glue dries. Bingelis has various ways of doing this inhis books.As to bringing it all the way from top of spar to bottom of spar, its yourchoice. Piets, and other aircraft, have been built both ways. My personalpreference is to use 0.020 aluminum and wrap all the way around. I do pleadguilty to using 1/4" x 22 or 24 ga. brass or cement coated aircraft nails -space about 1" on center.Good luck with your project - you have come a long way if you are ready forthe leading edges!Craig----- Original Message -----
Sam, there are many ways to secure that leading edge. I have used bothstaple strips and pieces of inner tube with hooks on the end. Both goimmediately OVER the nose ribs. Use some T-88, and make sure that you get agood layer on the wood. If you want, you can mark where the ribs go on theinside of the plywood or aluminum (used both - not much difference), andrough it with scotchbrite (alum.) or sandpaper (plywood). If you are usingplywood, after marking the nose rib locations, use some spar or epoxyvarnish to seal the wood.If you are into work, you can also make a female mold arrangement to holdthe LE on while the glue dries. Bingelis has various ways of doing this inhis books.As to bringing it all the way from top of spar to bottom of spar, its yourchoice. Piets, and other aircraft, have been built both ways. My personalpreference is to use 0.020 aluminum and wrap all the way around. I do pleadguilty to using 1/4" x 22 or 24 ga. brass or cement coated aircraft nails -space about 1" on center.Good luck with your project - you have come a long way if you are ready forthe leading edges!Craig----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
The reason the plywood does not wrap all the way around is that it does notserve any structural purpose in a Piet, it is just there to give a constantairfoil shape in the most important area for lift. Heck, you could omit theplywood entirely, Like Larry did, although you should put in extra "falseribs" between the ribs to give more shape in the area. Also, it would bemuch more difficult to wrap the plywood all the way around AND it could holdmoisture against the front of the spar (and be heavier). Personally, I amleaning toward false ribs. Just makes it LOOK older and would be incrediblyeasy to install.Gene________________________________________________________________________________
The reason the plywood does not wrap all the way around is that it does notserve any structural purpose in a Piet, it is just there to give a constantairfoil shape in the most important area for lift. Heck, you could omit theplywood entirely, Like Larry did, although you should put in extra "falseribs" between the ribs to give more shape in the area. Also, it would bemuch more difficult to wrap the plywood all the way around AND it could holdmoisture against the front of the spar (and be heavier). Personally, I amleaning toward false ribs. Just makes it LOOK older and would be incrediblyeasy to install.Gene________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "Dennis Engelkenjohn"
Dennis,Thats a great idea! Got to jot that down for my next project. I hadstapled mine through a plastic strip, and it worked ok , but this is better.This is right up there with someones idea about making clamps from slices ofPVC pipe, which worked amazingly well.walt----- Original Message -----
Dennis,Thats a great idea! Got to jot that down for my next project. I hadstapled mine through a plastic strip, and it worked ok , but this is better.This is right up there with someones idea about making clamps from slices ofPVC pipe, which worked amazingly well.walt----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "Sam Marinucci"
SamI wrapped my leading edge all the way around. The only problem I ran intowas the ply distorted on the underside leaving it bowed out between theribs. I solved that by scallop cutting the plywood between the ribs. Nowthat it's covered and painted it looks good.I started by clamping and glueing on the top side and used cargo straps onevery other rib to slowly bend the ply around while wetting the wood. Ialso used a iron to steam the wood while bending. I should also add that Iwent with 12" wide sections of Plywood.Dick----- Original Message -----
SamI wrapped my leading edge all the way around. The only problem I ran intowas the ply distorted on the underside leaving it bowed out between theribs. I solved that by scallop cutting the plywood between the ribs. Nowthat it's covered and painted it looks good.I started by clamping and glueing on the top side and used cargo straps onevery other rib to slowly bend the ply around while wetting the wood. Ialso used a iron to steam the wood while bending. I should also add that Iwent with 12" wide sections of Plywood.Dick----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "Bert Conoly"
Mike Cuy,Do you have a scan of your leading edge drawing? I know of a couple of people whoare interested in your technique using handrail to form the LE.Thanks,Greg CardinalProject update: Dale and I have taxied NX18235 under its own power. A very BIGmilestone. Just waiting for the final inspection and hoping for a first flightbefore the weather gets too cold.________________________________________________________________________________
Mike Cuy,Do you have a scan of your leading edge drawing? I know of a couple of people whoare interested in your technique using handrail to form the LE.Thanks,Greg CardinalProject update: Dale and I have taxied NX18235 under its own power. A very BIGmilestone. Just waiting for the final inspection and hoping for a first flightbefore the weather gets too cold.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By:>
Way to go, Greg and Dale! I hope you can get NX18235 in the air soon. I haveabout 6 hours now on NX899JP and have flown it comfortably in temps as low as43 F. As Walt says, Ain't Life Grand!Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC>
Way to go, Greg and Dale! I hope you can get NX18235 in the air soon. I haveabout 6 hours now on NX899JP and have flown it comfortably in temps as low as43 F. As Walt says, Ain't Life Grand!Jack Phillips, Raleigh NC>
Re: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN"
A personal thought on the leading edge material. I went to our local homecenter (Menards) and purchased a piece called a brick molding. It goes on ahouse at the bottom of the siding above where a brick facing starts. It isavailable in long pieces. One piece will do a wing and the center section.It is finger jointed clear pine. Although it is a strange shape, it islarge enough that a couple passes through the table saw and use of a disksander produced a very respectable leading edge. Since it is for exterioruse I assume the glue in the finger joints is water proof. Once the leadingedge is bolted on and covered with aluminum or plywood, a finger jointcouldn't separate if it tried. My project is not completed, but the leadingedge is in place and is going to work fineCarol and RalphRaymond________________________________________________________________________________
A personal thought on the leading edge material. I went to our local homecenter (Menards) and purchased a piece called a brick molding. It goes on ahouse at the bottom of the siding above where a brick facing starts. It isavailable in long pieces. One piece will do a wing and the center section.It is finger jointed clear pine. Although it is a strange shape, it islarge enough that a couple passes through the table saw and use of a disksander produced a very respectable leading edge. Since it is for exterioruse I assume the glue in the finger joints is water proof. Once the leadingedge is bolted on and covered with aluminum or plywood, a finger jointcouldn't separate if it tried. My project is not completed, but the leadingedge is in place and is going to work fineCarol and RalphRaymond________________________________________________________________________________
> Pietenpol-List: Leading edge
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
> To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge> > Mike Cuy,> > Do you have a scan of your leading edge drawing? I know of a couple of peoplewho are interested in your technique using handrail to form the LE.> > Thanks,> > Greg Cardinal> > Project update: Dale and I have taxied NX18235 under its own power. A very BIGmilestone. Just waiting for the final inspection and hoping for a first flightbefore the weather gets too cold.> ________________________________________________________________________________
> To: > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Leading edge> > Mike Cuy,> > Do you have a scan of your leading edge drawing? I know of a couple of peoplewho are interested in your technique using handrail to form the LE.> > Thanks,> > Greg Cardinal> > Project update: Dale and I have taxied NX18235 under its own power. A very BIGmilestone. Just waiting for the final inspection and hoping for a first flightbefore the weather gets too cold.> ________________________________________________________________________________