Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
I have seen several sources that indicate that 2.0 diameter pulleys are notacceptable. When I looked into it, I found that yes, I could increase thepulley without too much trouble, however the larger pulleys are not intendedfor use with anything as small as 3/32 cable. Throw in the larger pulleyand the larger cable and it starts sounding like weight that I would rathernot add. Here is the question, has anyone had, or even heard of a problem(real or merely with an inspector) with the 3/32 cable and associated 2"pulleys?Also, after careful study of the plans, I noticed that the improved '34plans use 1/8 sides while the earlier plans use 3/32. Has anyone heard of aproblem with using the light stuff?Best Regards,Kevin Holcombhttp://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/_______ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "Kevin Holcomb"
Kevin,One of the main things that my Mentor told me from the beginning ( keep inmind that all people have different opinions)Is that no matter what you are building, all control cables are supposed tobe 1/8".Don't know if this is right or wrong, so I did all controls in 1/8".The cross cables on the cabanes and the tail wires I did in 3/32" and theDAR didn't say anything.waltNX140DL----- Original Message -----
Kevin,One of the main things that my Mentor told me from the beginning ( keep inmind that all people have different opinions)Is that no matter what you are building, all control cables are supposed tobe 1/8".Don't know if this is right or wrong, so I did all controls in 1/8".The cross cables on the cabanes and the tail wires I did in 3/32" and theDAR didn't say anything.waltNX140DL----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Yup... as I recall the AC43-13 says control cables are supposed to be 1/8".flying/bracing wires may be 3/32"I'm doing 1/8" control cables throughout my GN-1.DJ Veghwww.raptoronline.com----- Original Message -----
Yup... as I recall the AC43-13 says control cables are supposed to be 1/8".flying/bracing wires may be 3/32"I'm doing 1/8" control cables throughout my GN-1.DJ Veghwww.raptoronline.com----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: walter evans [mailto:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]
Don't the plans call for 3/32" on everything except the elevator idler? Ican't imagine that there's any part of the control surfaces structure thatcan stand up to the strength of 3/32" cable, let alone 1/8". Does anyonehave a feeling for the rationale behind 1/8" for controls?Gene HubbardSan Diego-----Original Message-----
Don't the plans call for 3/32" on everything except the elevator idler? Ican't imagine that there's any part of the control surfaces structure thatcan stand up to the strength of 3/32" cable, let alone 1/8". Does anyonehave a feeling for the rationale behind 1/8" for controls?Gene HubbardSan Diego-----Original Message-----
> Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Gene, over a year ago I was planning to go 1/8" on all of the controls. I think I might have gotten that from Bingelis?? But lots of guys on the list said it was too heavy and over kill so I bought 3/32"wire for everything except the stick to bellcrank cables. I also did my tailwires in 1/16" as per the consenus of some of the more experienced guys on the list. So here we go. Ed>From: "Hubbard, Eugene" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:45:45 -0800>>>>Don't the plans call for 3/32" on everything except the elevator idler? I>can't imagine that there's any part of the control surfaces structure that>can stand up to the strength of 3/32" cable, let alone 1/8". Does anyone>have a feeling for the rationale behind 1/8" for controls?>>Gene Hubbard>San Diego>>-----Original Message----->From: walter evans [mailto:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables>>>>>Kevin,>One of the main things that my Mentor told me from the beginning ( keep in>mind that all people have different opinions)>Is that no matter what you are building, all control cables are supposed to>be 1/8".>Don't know if this is right or wrong, so I did all controls in 1/8".>The cross cables on the cabanes and the tail wires I did in 3/32" and the>DAR didn't say anything.>walt>NX140DL>>----- Original Message ----->From: "Kevin Holcomb" >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables>>>> >> > I have seen several sources that indicate that 2.0 diameter pulleys are>not> > acceptable. When I looked into it, I found that yes, I could increase >the> > pulley without too much trouble, however the larger pulleys are not>intended> > for use with anything as small as 3/32 cable. Throw in the larger >pulley> > and the larger cable and it starts sounding like weight that I would>rather> > not add. Here is the question, has anyone had, or even heard of a >problem> > (real or merely with an inspector) with the 3/32 cable and associated 2"> > pulleys?> >> > Also, after careful study of the plans, I noticed that the improved '34> > plans use 1/8 sides while the earlier plans use 3/32. Has anyone heard >of>a> > problem with using the light stuff?> >> > Best Regards,> > Kevin Holcomb> > http://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/> >> >>>http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/pl ... __________
Gene, over a year ago I was planning to go 1/8" on all of the controls. I think I might have gotten that from Bingelis?? But lots of guys on the list said it was too heavy and over kill so I bought 3/32"wire for everything except the stick to bellcrank cables. I also did my tailwires in 1/16" as per the consenus of some of the more experienced guys on the list. So here we go. Ed>From: "Hubbard, Eugene" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:45:45 -0800>>>>Don't the plans call for 3/32" on everything except the elevator idler? I>can't imagine that there's any part of the control surfaces structure that>can stand up to the strength of 3/32" cable, let alone 1/8". Does anyone>have a feeling for the rationale behind 1/8" for controls?>>Gene Hubbard>San Diego>>-----Original Message----->From: walter evans [mailto:wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net]>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables>>>>>Kevin,>One of the main things that my Mentor told me from the beginning ( keep in>mind that all people have different opinions)>Is that no matter what you are building, all control cables are supposed to>be 1/8".>Don't know if this is right or wrong, so I did all controls in 1/8".>The cross cables on the cabanes and the tail wires I did in 3/32" and the>DAR didn't say anything.>walt>NX140DL>>----- Original Message ----->From: "Kevin Holcomb" >To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables>>>> >> > I have seen several sources that indicate that 2.0 diameter pulleys are>not> > acceptable. When I looked into it, I found that yes, I could increase >the> > pulley without too much trouble, however the larger pulleys are not>intended> > for use with anything as small as 3/32 cable. Throw in the larger >pulley> > and the larger cable and it starts sounding like weight that I would>rather> > not add. Here is the question, has anyone had, or even heard of a >problem> > (real or merely with an inspector) with the 3/32 cable and associated 2"> > pulleys?> >> > Also, after careful study of the plans, I noticed that the improved '34> > plans use 1/8 sides while the earlier plans use 3/32. Has anyone heard >of>a> > problem with using the light stuff?> >> > Best Regards,> > Kevin Holcomb> > http://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/> >> >>>http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/pl ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Bingelis on eyebrows
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mike,The key is that you used the pal nuts to hold on your angles not thecylinder hold downs. I am trying to stress with these guys that anythingthat goes UNDER the cylinder hold downs is hard steel.Your ship is finewith the inboard angles under the pal nuts.Dead soft is the way to go. It will age harden and work harden to a higherT so that when you are 70 and the ship is 40, they will begin to take on thecharismatic cracks we love to look at on the cubs.chris-----Original Message-----
Mike,The key is that you used the pal nuts to hold on your angles not thecylinder hold downs. I am trying to stress with these guys that anythingthat goes UNDER the cylinder hold downs is hard steel.Your ship is finewith the inboard angles under the pal nuts.Dead soft is the way to go. It will age harden and work harden to a higherT so that when you are 70 and the ship is 40, they will begin to take on thecharismatic cracks we love to look at on the cubs.chris-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "Hubbard, Eugene"
Gene,Think it the idea that, beside the regulation that covers it, if you put inthe smaller and the inspector fails it, you have to change it all. and youjust can't rethread the thicker stuff. It needs a different pully width.walt----- Original Message -----
Gene,Think it the idea that, beside the regulation that covers it, if you put inthe smaller and the inspector fails it, you have to change it all. and youjust can't rethread the thicker stuff. It needs a different pully width.walt----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
But guys, we are not builing to FAR 43 and AC 43 is "advisory". "This is an"experimental". You could use rope if you want to. My Certified prewarAeronca 50-c Chief uses 3/32" throughout. There is no 1/8" anywhere.If we did not have the access that we do to inspect routinely all the cablelengths (like every time we fly), it would present a good case for the 1/8".I would use the 3/32". It was ok for aircraft certified under AeronauticsBulletin 7 in 1931 and is appropriate for ships designed in that period.Chris-----Original Message-----
But guys, we are not builing to FAR 43 and AC 43 is "advisory". "This is an"experimental". You could use rope if you want to. My Certified prewarAeronca 50-c Chief uses 3/32" throughout. There is no 1/8" anywhere.If we did not have the access that we do to inspect routinely all the cablelengths (like every time we fly), it would present a good case for the 1/8".I would use the 3/32". It was ok for aircraft certified under AeronauticsBulletin 7 in 1931 and is appropriate for ships designed in that period.Chris-----Original Message-----
> Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Pietenpol-List: RE: Hinge pics
Original Posted By: "The Huizenga's"
In your pictures I see a small band saw, or scroll saw. Is that being usedto cut metal? if so how did it work, if not how did you cut it?Kent HallstenOklahoma CityInteresting question. That saw is a standard 10" (wood) Band Saw. I sureWISH it was what I used. Actually, I used a hacksaw and did the cutting byhand. I figure the suggestion I've seen on this list to go to HarborFreight and buy one of those $179 metal cutting band saws is probably thebest way to go. I've tried the hack saw (with good but painfully SLOWsuccess) and my variable speed reciprocating saw (with marginal success)with a metal cutting blade. I picked up a 3" pneumatic cutoff saw withreally thin disks. I'm going to try mounting that inside a box with theblade sticking up through a slot. Sort of a table saw type of arrangement.Haven't a clue if that will work but sure should be easier than the way I'mdoing it. If I have to I'll do them by hand until I can afford the couplehundred for a good band saw.As usual, I WELCOME suggestions......Jim MarklePlano, TX________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:53:55 -0600
In your pictures I see a small band saw, or scroll saw. Is that being usedto cut metal? if so how did it work, if not how did you cut it?Kent HallstenOklahoma CityInteresting question. That saw is a standard 10" (wood) Band Saw. I sureWISH it was what I used. Actually, I used a hacksaw and did the cutting byhand. I figure the suggestion I've seen on this list to go to HarborFreight and buy one of those $179 metal cutting band saws is probably thebest way to go. I've tried the hack saw (with good but painfully SLOWsuccess) and my variable speed reciprocating saw (with marginal success)with a metal cutting blade. I picked up a 3" pneumatic cutoff saw withreally thin disks. I'm going to try mounting that inside a box with theblade sticking up through a slot. Sort of a table saw type of arrangement.Haven't a clue if that will work but sure should be easier than the way I'mdoing it. If I have to I'll do them by hand until I can afford the couplehundred for a good band saw.As usual, I WELCOME suggestions......Jim MarklePlano, TX________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:53:55 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "Hubbard, Eugene"
That is the way I see it. And yes, I agree the AC is an advisory not typedata. However, I am very interested to find out if anyone has had troublegetting their airworthiness cert or has had a bad experience with the lightstuff. I am tempted to follow the plans whenever I am in doubt, especiallywhen it will result in a lighter airplane.----- Original Message -----
That is the way I see it. And yes, I agree the AC is an advisory not typedata. However, I am very interested to find out if anyone has had troublegetting their airworthiness cert or has had a bad experience with the lightstuff. I am tempted to follow the plans whenever I am in doubt, especiallywhen it will result in a lighter airplane.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "Lou Larsen"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control CablesFor what it's worth. I only have 1/8 between the cabanes and the wing struts. All controls are the flexible 3/32 and the tail feathers are held together ( well ) with 1/16.It's flying like a dream come true with no complaints from the test pilot. Why pay $5 for a cookie when you can buy it for a nickle. I believe in safety, as my age will atest, but I think some of these aero techs have carried the subject beyond good common sense. Especially those who publish the ASS catalog. No wonder GA is in the position it's in.Ole Corky in La still looking for the best for GA and fighting those vultures who sell supplies. Wish we went back to the war time OPA, Office of price administration. The only federal bureau that ever amounted to anything.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control CablesFor what it's worth. I only have 1/8 between the cabanes and the wing struts. All controls are the flexible 3/32 and the tail feathers are held together ( well ) with 1/16.It's flying like a dream come true with no complaints from the test pilot. Why pay $5 for a cookie when you can buy it for a nickle. I believe in safety, as my age will atest, but I think some of these aero techs have carried the subject beyond good common sense. Especially those who publish the ASS catalog. No wonder GA is in the position it's in.Ole Corky in La still looking for the best for GA and fighting those vultures who sell supplies. Wish we went back to the war time OPA, Office of price administration. The only federal bureau that ever amounted to anything.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "Kevin Holcomb"
Another 2 cents worth:There are a couple other reasons to use 3/32 control cable:1. Its a lot easier to work with 3/32 cable.2. Its lighter weight; you need to watch all the extra ounces.Lou LarsenP.S. Just finished the last of the rib stitching.----- Original Message -----
Another 2 cents worth:There are a couple other reasons to use 3/32 control cable:1. Its a lot easier to work with 3/32 cable.2. Its lighter weight; you need to watch all the extra ounces.Lou LarsenP.S. Just finished the last of the rib stitching.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "Lou Larsen"
Everyone,My response was only my own opinion. With all the stories of all theinspectors out there,,,,,with all due respect, put in what ever you want.waltNX140DLPS. with all my 1/8" control cable, my empty weight is 595#----- Original Message -----
Everyone,My response was only my own opinion. With all the stories of all theinspectors out there,,,,,with all due respect, put in what ever you want.waltNX140DLPS. with all my 1/8" control cable, my empty weight is 595#----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Not only is it lighter, but a lot of that weight savings is way aft of theCG where extra weight really hurts. I followed the plans and used 1/8"between the stick and the bellcrank, then 3/32" for all other controlcables. Remember when looking at AC 43.13 that it is basically written formore modern airplanes, which typically have only two cables for theelevators, one for up and one for down. A Piet has four - two up (one oneach side) and two down, at least once you get past the bellcrank. That'swhy the 1/8" cable from the stick to the bellcrank - that one up cable iscarrying all the load. Tell that to any inspector who wants you to run 1/8"cable.Jack -----Original Message-----
Not only is it lighter, but a lot of that weight savings is way aft of theCG where extra weight really hurts. I followed the plans and used 1/8"between the stick and the bellcrank, then 3/32" for all other controlcables. Remember when looking at AC 43.13 that it is basically written formore modern airplanes, which typically have only two cables for theelevators, one for up and one for down. A Piet has four - two up (one oneach side) and two down, at least once you get past the bellcrank. That'swhy the 1/8" cable from the stick to the bellcrank - that one up cable iscarrying all the load. Tell that to any inspector who wants you to run 1/8"cable.Jack -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: 3/32 Control Cables
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Thanks for the feedback. Every opinion is valued when it comes to makingthese tough decisions. 595 lb is a heck of an accomplishment.----- Original Message -----
Thanks for the feedback. Every opinion is valued when it comes to makingthese tough decisions. 595 lb is a heck of an accomplishment.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: RE: Hinge pics
Original Posted By: del magsam
Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: Hinge pics
Original Posted By:
Jim,I have a normal 12" Sears wood band saw. I couldn't figure out how to slowit down and didn't have a metal cutting blade. I was impatient and wantedto get started. I tried the hacksaw for about 5 seconds. Tried a scrollsaw but it jumped around too much. Finally, I decided to cut some 4130 flatstock on my wood band saw. Figured that I would ruin the blade in about 2or 3 cuts. But, oh well!! At least I would get something done thatweekend. It was amazing how easy the blade cut through that metal. Justpush until it starts to glow red and then keep it moving at a speed thatkeeps the red glow. It cuts almost like butter. I cut ALL my fittings.That was six months ago and I am still using that blade to cut metal andwood.One point I should make is that all the cuts were pretty much straight. Icouldn't cut curves. I shaped with a grinder after rough cutting with theband saw.It is a 3/8" blade with about 6 or 7 tpi.Hope this helps someone.Ted BrousseauNaples, FLPS I was going through some early EAA magazines and saw an article by an oldfellow (probably younger than me now, but old to me then...). He calledthis cutting "friction cutting".----- Original Message -----
Jim,I have a normal 12" Sears wood band saw. I couldn't figure out how to slowit down and didn't have a metal cutting blade. I was impatient and wantedto get started. I tried the hacksaw for about 5 seconds. Tried a scrollsaw but it jumped around too much. Finally, I decided to cut some 4130 flatstock on my wood band saw. Figured that I would ruin the blade in about 2or 3 cuts. But, oh well!! At least I would get something done thatweekend. It was amazing how easy the blade cut through that metal. Justpush until it starts to glow red and then keep it moving at a speed thatkeeps the red glow. It cuts almost like butter. I cut ALL my fittings.That was six months ago and I am still using that blade to cut metal andwood.One point I should make is that all the cuts were pretty much straight. Icouldn't cut curves. I shaped with a grinder after rough cutting with theband saw.It is a 3/8" blade with about 6 or 7 tpi.Hope this helps someone.Ted BrousseauNaples, FLPS I was going through some early EAA magazines and saw an article by an oldfellow (probably younger than me now, but old to me then...). He calledthis cutting "friction cutting".----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: Hinge pics
Original Posted By: "del magsam"
My dad made a 3 wheel band saw before WW2. We found that we had to use thethinnest blades and then you had to tension them very tight to keep themfrom breaking.Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, OshkoshEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.orgAlways looking for articles for the Experimenter----- Original Message -----
My dad made a 3 wheel band saw before WW2. We found that we had to use thethinnest blades and then you had to tension them very tight to keep themfrom breaking.Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, OshkoshEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.orgAlways looking for articles for the Experimenter----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: RE: Hinge pics
Original Posted By: clif