Original Posted By: "William C. Beerman"
________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: The Endicotts
Just finished welding up my split axle landing gear and I thought I'd sharesome of my findings. Since this is my first project everything is new to mebut the following has helped a lot. Get the EAA video on welding, it reallyclears the mysteries on gas welding. The welding book is also a must ifyou're doing your own welding. One of my woodworking tools is a power mitresaw. If you have one, loose the blade and get an abrasive cut off wheel.It's great on 4130 tubing. In read Hamiltons Piet directory is a sketch byBill Rewey of a simple to build landing gear jig. I build one and it worksgreat.When knotching the tubing the cut off wheel took care of the ruff cutand a Dremel tool with an small sanding drum quickly finished the job.After just a short time of practice welding, I impress myself with thefinished job. 4130 is a pleasure to weld. Hopes this helps some of you whohaven't reached this stage yet.Mike C is right about taking pictures of other Piets. I've almost filled analbum and you know, after you get back home you ask yourself, "why didn't Ialso get a picture of that other detail". There's always something youforgot. I refer to the pictures as much as the plans to help clear up somefoggy detail. Joe CZion, Ill________________________________________________________________________________
Just finished welding up my split axle landing gear and I thought I'd sharesome of my findings. Since this is my first project everything is new to mebut the following has helped a lot. Get the EAA video on welding, it reallyclears the mysteries on gas welding. The welding book is also a must ifyou're doing your own welding. One of my woodworking tools is a power mitresaw. If you have one, loose the blade and get an abrasive cut off wheel.It's great on 4130 tubing. In read Hamiltons Piet directory is a sketch byBill Rewey of a simple to build landing gear jig. I build one and it worksgreat.When knotching the tubing the cut off wheel took care of the ruff cutand a Dremel tool with an small sanding drum quickly finished the job.After just a short time of practice welding, I impress myself with thefinished job. 4130 is a pleasure to weld. Hopes this helps some of you whohaven't reached this stage yet.Mike C is right about taking pictures of other Piets. I've almost filled analbum and you know, after you get back home you ask yourself, "why didn't Ialso get a picture of that other detail". There's always something youforgot. I refer to the pictures as much as the plans to help clear up somefoggy detail. Joe CZion, Ill________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: "William C. Beerman"
Hey guys, I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear per the1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which oneshould I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for the strength? 14 guage =.078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Hey guys, I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear per the1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which oneshould I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for the strength? 14 guage =.078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear
Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear>In my case my limiting means is a 1/8" cable loop wrapped around both gear>"T's" Works well, and I have tested it believe me. I know of one "Vee">type that was tested to destruction, the Vee stayed in place, but the wheel>still folded up to the strut as you describe because the bolts pulled>through the end fittings. (Bungees stayed put!) No damage to the airframe>however. Piets are tough!>>Steve E.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear>In my case my limiting means is a 1/8" cable loop wrapped around both gear>"T's" Works well, and I have tested it believe me. I know of one "Vee">type that was tested to destruction, the Vee stayed in place, but the wheel>still folded up to the strut as you describe because the bolts pulled>through the end fittings. (Bungees stayed put!) No damage to the airframe>however. Piets are tough!>>Steve E.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear>In my case my limiting means is a 1/8" cable loop wrapped around both gear>"T's" Works well, and I have tested it believe me. I know of one "Vee">type that was tested to destruction, the Vee stayed in place, but the wheel>still folded up to the strut as you describe because the bolts pulled>through the end fittings. (Bungees stayed put!) No damage to the airframe>however. Piets are tough!>>Steve E.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear>In my case my limiting means is a 1/8" cable loop wrapped around both gear>"T's" Works well, and I have tested it believe me. I know of one "Vee">type that was tested to destruction, the Vee stayed in place, but the wheel>still folded up to the strut as you describe because the bolts pulled>through the end fittings. (Bungees stayed put!) No damage to the airframe>however. Piets are tough!>>Steve E.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By:> PTNPOL(at)aol.com
Ron, I've attached a message that was sent out a while ago regarding DillsburgAeroplane works, from whom I bought our 4130 tubing. I can't recallthe wall thickness we purchased to approximate 14 Ga.; perhaps I can check my records tonight for you. Alternately, maybe you can coax the proprietor of Dillsburg to make a suggestion for you. As I recall, they had in stock something that was closer than what you describe from ASSCO.Good luck, -Bill> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:12:54 -0500 (EST)
Ron, I've attached a message that was sent out a while ago regarding DillsburgAeroplane works, from whom I bought our 4130 tubing. I can't recallthe wall thickness we purchased to approximate 14 Ga.; perhaps I can check my records tonight for you. Alternately, maybe you can coax the proprietor of Dillsburg to make a suggestion for you. As I recall, they had in stock something that was closer than what you describe from ASSCO.Good luck, -Bill> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:12:54 -0500 (EST)
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Raffaele Bellissimo
Steel tubing follows the B.W.G. / Stubs gage todecimal chart. 14 gage is .083.Dillsburg carries this in the size you need.Reach them at:Dillsburg Aeroplane Works114 Sawmill Rd.Dillsburg, PA 17019717 432-4589>>> 12/29 11:12 PM >>>Hey guys, I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear perthe1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which oneshould I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go forthestrength? 14 guage .078=09________________________________________________________________________________
Steel tubing follows the B.W.G. / Stubs gage todecimal chart. 14 gage is .083.Dillsburg carries this in the size you need.Reach them at:Dillsburg Aeroplane Works114 Sawmill Rd.Dillsburg, PA 17019717 432-4589>>> 12/29 11:12 PM >>>Hey guys, I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear perthe1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which oneshould I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go forthestrength? 14 guage .078=09________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Jim Skinner
I used the .095, second time around. Either would be fine I suspect, but Ididn't want a repeat of the problem I had when I used .035 by mistake,SteveeSee steve.byu.edu for more details.-----Original Message-----PTNPOL(at)aol.comSent: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:13 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gearHey guys, I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear perthe1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which oneshould I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for thestrength? 14 guage =.078________________________________________________________________________________
I used the .095, second time around. Either would be fine I suspect, but Ididn't want a repeat of the problem I had when I used .035 by mistake,SteveeSee steve.byu.edu for more details.-----Original Message-----PTNPOL(at)aol.comSent: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:13 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gearHey guys, I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear perthe1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which oneshould I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for thestrength? 14 guage =.078________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
>Hey guys,>> I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear per the>1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.>Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which one>should I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for the >strength? 14 guage =.078 >One thing you might want to think about regarding the strength of the splitlanding gear is the geometry of the bungee strut. I was a passenger in avery hard cross wind landing where it went over center with the wheelresting against the wing strut. The wheel did not go back down even whenthe wingtip was lifted off the ground. When we started to carry/wheel itback to a hanger one of the helpers bumped the wheel. It popped back downinto a (nearly) normal position and we were able to roll it on it's wheelsback to a hanger for repairs. We changed from the bungee struts going clearto the opposite side of the fuselage by adding a vee and shorting the bungeestruts. The problem as I see it is that the triangle (looking from the front of theplane) is kind of flat (unequal length sides). When the bungee cordsstretch it gets even flatter. The higher the wheel goes the less downwardforce the wheel can support. At very large displacements the downward forcebecomes less than the weight of the plane even though the bungees areputting lots of force on the long side of the triangle. Most of their forceis put into compression force on the other two sides of the triangle.In the above case the limit stop was a bolt in a slot. The limit stopstretched/bent slightly. I am not sure this part was to plans or evendetailed in the plans. If the limit stops were set up to allow less travelit may be an improvement but the addition of a vee (as on Cubs and otherproduction aircraft with bungees) is better.Of course this is just my opinion and it was an extreme situation.Jim________________________________________________________________________________
>Hey guys,>> I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear per the>1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.>Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which one>should I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for the >strength? 14 guage =.078 >One thing you might want to think about regarding the strength of the splitlanding gear is the geometry of the bungee strut. I was a passenger in avery hard cross wind landing where it went over center with the wheelresting against the wing strut. The wheel did not go back down even whenthe wingtip was lifted off the ground. When we started to carry/wheel itback to a hanger one of the helpers bumped the wheel. It popped back downinto a (nearly) normal position and we were able to roll it on it's wheelsback to a hanger for repairs. We changed from the bungee struts going clearto the opposite side of the fuselage by adding a vee and shorting the bungeestruts. The problem as I see it is that the triangle (looking from the front of theplane) is kind of flat (unequal length sides). When the bungee cordsstretch it gets even flatter. The higher the wheel goes the less downwardforce the wheel can support. At very large displacements the downward forcebecomes less than the weight of the plane even though the bungees areputting lots of force on the long side of the triangle. Most of their forceis put into compression force on the other two sides of the triangle.In the above case the limit stop was a bolt in a slot. The limit stopstretched/bent slightly. I am not sure this part was to plans or evendetailed in the plans. If the limit stops were set up to allow less travelit may be an improvement but the addition of a vee (as on Cubs and otherproduction aircraft with bungees) is better.Of course this is just my opinion and it was an extreme situation.Jim________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear
Original Posted By: Craig & Shari Hanson
**Very good description of split gear geometry deleted.**In the above case the limit stop was a bolt in a slot. The limit stopstretched/bent slightly. I am not sure this part was to plans or evendetailed in the plans. If the limit stops were set up to allow less travelit may be an improvement but the addition of a vee (as on Cubs and otherproduction aircraft with bungees) is better.Of course this is just my opinion and it was an extreme situation.JimIn my case my limiting means is a 1/8" cable loop wrapped around both gear"T's" Works well, and I have tested it believe me. I know of one "Vee"type that was tested to destruction, the Vee stayed in place, but the wheelstill folded up to the strut as you describe because the bolts pulledthrough the end fittings. (Bungees stayed put!) No damage to the airframehowever. Piets are tough!Steve E.________________________________________________________________________________
**Very good description of split gear geometry deleted.**In the above case the limit stop was a bolt in a slot. The limit stopstretched/bent slightly. I am not sure this part was to plans or evendetailed in the plans. If the limit stops were set up to allow less travelit may be an improvement but the addition of a vee (as on Cubs and otherproduction aircraft with bungees) is better.Of course this is just my opinion and it was an extreme situation.JimIn my case my limiting means is a 1/8" cable loop wrapped around both gear"T's" Works well, and I have tested it believe me. I know of one "Vee"type that was tested to destruction, the Vee stayed in place, but the wheelstill folded up to the strut as you describe because the bolts pulledthrough the end fittings. (Bungees stayed put!) No damage to the airframehowever. Piets are tough!Steve E.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
Steve,Are you describing the Piper type gear with the telescoping lower gearstrut? Some type have a compression spring? I've used 6X1" urethane pucks incompression. The duro number is 90 (red colour). Jack Watson also has thesepucks. I'm trying to picture the "vee" you are refering to. Is it the veeattached to the lower strut fittings that sort of hold the whole gearstructure together?I haven't tested it yet, still waiting for my flight permit.Regards,Domenico Bellissimo-----Original Message-----
Steve,Are you describing the Piper type gear with the telescoping lower gearstrut? Some type have a compression spring? I've used 6X1" urethane pucks incompression. The duro number is 90 (red colour). Jack Watson also has thesepucks. I'm trying to picture the "vee" you are refering to. Is it the veeattached to the lower strut fittings that sort of hold the whole gearstructure together?I haven't tested it yet, still waiting for my flight permit.Regards,Domenico Bellissimo-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Thanks for the advice everyone on the landing gear. As far as the geometryproblem on the split axle gear, I think Steve was right. The 1/8" cable per the 1933 plans on the struts should keep the landing gear from folding up.The plans says to allow the strut to have a 2 1/2" action. Is this enough?Did you solder the cable Steve or did you nicopress the cable? -=Ron=-________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the advice everyone on the landing gear. As far as the geometryproblem on the split axle gear, I think Steve was right. The 1/8" cable per the 1933 plans on the struts should keep the landing gear from folding up.The plans says to allow the strut to have a 2 1/2" action. Is this enough?Did you solder the cable Steve or did you nicopress the cable? -=Ron=-________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Ron- I just ordered my material for the gear last night, and went throughthe same thought process. I opted for the .095 option, for the peace of mind.Also, I decided to go the spring route rather than bungees, for some of thesame reasons listed by others, plus reduction of maintenance. There is adrawing of a spring assembly in BPAN Vol 6, page 2. It specifies an H56Laminar spring. This is a heavy die spring used in die molds. The specsare 1051 pounds force to compress to 30% of free length (max deflection), or1.8 inches. 2 of them compress to 30% at 2100 pounds, ample for the Piet.Cost is $17.20 each, significantly less than the coil springs in the ASScatalog. They are available at:Precision Punch and Plastic Co.6100 Blue Circle DriveMinnetonka, MN 55343(612) 933-0993fax (612) 935-5380Al SwansonFuselage done, ribs done. Teaching myself welding and working on the metalparts. >Hey guys,>> I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear per the>1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.>Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which one>should I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for the >strength? 14 guage =.078 >>________________________________________________________________________________
Ron- I just ordered my material for the gear last night, and went throughthe same thought process. I opted for the .095 option, for the peace of mind.Also, I decided to go the spring route rather than bungees, for some of thesame reasons listed by others, plus reduction of maintenance. There is adrawing of a spring assembly in BPAN Vol 6, page 2. It specifies an H56Laminar spring. This is a heavy die spring used in die molds. The specsare 1051 pounds force to compress to 30% of free length (max deflection), or1.8 inches. 2 of them compress to 30% at 2100 pounds, ample for the Piet.Cost is $17.20 each, significantly less than the coil springs in the ASScatalog. They are available at:Precision Punch and Plastic Co.6100 Blue Circle DriveMinnetonka, MN 55343(612) 933-0993fax (612) 935-5380Al SwansonFuselage done, ribs done. Teaching myself welding and working on the metalparts. >Hey guys,>> I am ready to order the material for my split axle landing gear per the>1933 plans. The plans call out for 13/8" 14 guage tubingfor the vee's.>Aircraft Spruce only carries either .095 or .065 wall thickness. Which one>should I use? Should I go with the weight savings or should I go for the >strength? 14 guage =.078 >>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Phil Phillips
Steve- I am planning on using the wire wheels. I wonder how that willlook with the springs. Did they have springs back in the 30's?I wonder if some of the problems with the gear folding up was with peopleleaving the 1/8" safety strap off of the strut? Thanks for the info Happy new year, -=Ron Lebfrom=-________________________________________________________________________________
Steve- I am planning on using the wire wheels. I wonder how that willlook with the springs. Did they have springs back in the 30's?I wonder if some of the problems with the gear folding up was with peopleleaving the 1/8" safety strap off of the strut? Thanks for the info Happy new year, -=Ron Lebfrom=-________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: landing gear
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
No, I'm refering to the split axle gear on the 33' plans.SteveeSteve,Are you describing the Piper type gear with the telescoping lower gearstrut? Some type have a compression spring? I've used 6X1" urethane pucks incompression. The duro number is 90 (red colour). Jack Watson also has thesepucks. I'm trying to picture the "vee" you are refering to. Is it the veeattached to the lower strut fittings that sort of hold the whole gearstructure together?I haven't tested it yet, still waiting for my flight permit.Regards,Domenico Bellissimo-----Original Message-----
No, I'm refering to the split axle gear on the 33' plans.SteveeSteve,Are you describing the Piper type gear with the telescoping lower gearstrut? Some type have a compression spring? I've used 6X1" urethane pucks incompression. The duro number is 90 (red colour). Jack Watson also has thesepucks. I'm trying to picture the "vee" you are refering to. Is it the veeattached to the lower strut fittings that sort of hold the whole gearstructure together?I haven't tested it yet, still waiting for my flight permit.Regards,Domenico Bellissimo-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
I Nicopressed a 1/8" dia SS ring and slipped it over the "T" on the upperand lower strut then wrapped with bungee. I think it was about 14 inch longpiece of cable. Measure thrice, cut once.Steve E.-----Original Message-----PTNPOL(at)aol.comSent: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 9:24 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Re: landing gearThanks for the advice everyone on the landing gear. As far as the geometryproblem on the split axle gear, I think Steve was right. The 1/8" cableperthe 1933 plans on the struts should keep the landing gear from folding up.The plans says to allow the strut to have a 2 1/2" action. Is this enough?Did you solder the cable Steve or did you nicopress the cable? -=Ron=-________________________________________________________________________________
I Nicopressed a 1/8" dia SS ring and slipped it over the "T" on the upperand lower strut then wrapped with bungee. I think it was about 14 inch longpiece of cable. Measure thrice, cut once.Steve E.-----Original Message-----PTNPOL(at)aol.comSent: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 9:24 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Re: landing gearThanks for the advice everyone on the landing gear. As far as the geometryproblem on the split axle gear, I think Steve was right. The 1/8" cableperthe 1933 plans on the struts should keep the landing gear from folding up.The plans says to allow the strut to have a 2 1/2" action. Is this enough?Did you solder the cable Steve or did you nicopress the cable? -=Ron=-________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
>I Nicopressed a 1/8" dia SS ring and slipped it over the "T" on the upper>and lower strut then wrapped with bungee. I think it was about 14 inch long>piece of cable. Measure thrice, cut once.>>Steve E.Also for you straight axle/wood gear builders you can make yourself a safety loop at the ash bottom piece around the bungee's just in case thebungee lets go. This keeps the axle from traveling too high and bashingup the bottom of the fuselage.....not to mention hopefully preventing a groundloop. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
>I Nicopressed a 1/8" dia SS ring and slipped it over the "T" on the upper>and lower strut then wrapped with bungee. I think it was about 14 inch long>piece of cable. Measure thrice, cut once.>>Steve E.Also for you straight axle/wood gear builders you can make yourself a safety loop at the ash bottom piece around the bungee's just in case thebungee lets go. This keeps the axle from traveling too high and bashingup the bottom of the fuselage.....not to mention hopefully preventing a groundloop. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
Im going to use 6 or 8 inch tires. Do I still use thedimensions on the print? the plane will just sit lower?I plan on the corvair so a smaller propeller.________________________________________________________________________________
Im going to use 6 or 8 inch tires. Do I still use thedimensions on the print? the plane will just sit lower?I plan on the corvair so a smaller propeller.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Copinfo
Del, I have 800X4's on my Piet with a 72 inch prop and There is no problem.It looks close but it works. I do cut some grass every now and then.Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.ComTim CunninghamDes Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510>Im going to use 6 or 8 inch tires. Do I still use the>dimensions on the print? the plane will just sit lower?>I plan on the corvair so a smaller propeller.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Del, I have 800X4's on my Piet with a 72 inch prop and There is no problem.It looks close but it works. I do cut some grass every now and then.Copinfo(at)ix.Netcom.ComTim CunninghamDes Moines, Iowa (515) 237-1510>Im going to use 6 or 8 inch tires. Do I still use the>dimensions on the print? the plane will just sit lower?>I plan on the corvair so a smaller propeller.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: "Conrad, Bart D"
As long as you have about 9" prop clearance withg the airplane in alevel position you will be ok.del magsam wrote:> Im going to use 6 or 8 inch tires. Do I still use the> dimensions on the print? the plane will just sit lower?> I plan on the corvair so a smaller propeller.>> ________________________________________________________________________________
As long as you have about 9" prop clearance withg the airplane in alevel position you will be ok.del magsam wrote:> Im going to use 6 or 8 inch tires. Do I still use the> dimensions on the print? the plane will just sit lower?> I plan on the corvair so a smaller propeller.>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
Re: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: "javier cruz"
I think this is an easy fix. Adjust the length of the bad telescopingbungee tube. Do this by grinding/ machining the tube end where the tubesbutt together , a very little at a time.In construction , what I did was to have the plane upside down. Thenassemble the "V" pieces. now clamp a streight edge to both axels, so youknow they're streight. If you put the right amount of spacing in thetelescoping tubes per print, it pretty much has to be right.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
I think this is an easy fix. Adjust the length of the bad telescopingbungee tube. Do this by grinding/ machining the tube end where the tubesbutt together , a very little at a time.In construction , what I did was to have the plane upside down. Thenassemble the "V" pieces. now clamp a streight edge to both axels, so youknow they're streight. If you put the right amount of spacing in thetelescoping tubes per print, it pretty much has to be right.walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: bracket materials
Original Posted By: "Les Schubert"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bracket materialsHmmm because it is fun to talk shop !!!!!----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bracket materialsHmmm because it is fun to talk shop !!!!!----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;The plans indicate a dimension of 51" from the ground to the top of the top longeron with the original solid axle gear setup with 24"x4" wheels, measured in the flying attitude (not sitting on the tailwheel). My assumption is that there is nothing magic about that dimension, and in fact it seems that many Piets that use J-3 style gear sit a tad higher than that. Getting in and out of the cockpits would seem to be the most important factor to be considered when adjusting that dimension. While I don't expect folks to go run out and measure their Piets to check this, are there any offhand comments having to do with that dimension?Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;The plans indicate a dimension of 51" from the ground to the top of the top longeron with the original solid axle gear setup with 24"x4" wheels, measured in the flying attitude (not sitting on the tailwheel). My assumption is that there is nothing magic about that dimension, and in fact it seems that many Piets that use J-3 style gear sit a tad higher than that. Getting in and out of the cockpits would seem to be the most important factor to be considered when adjusting that dimension. While I don't expect folks to go run out and measure their Piets to check this, are there any offhand comments having to do with that dimension?Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: "rambog(at)erols.com"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gearHowdy, low 'n' slow fliers;The plans indicate a dimension of 51" from the ground to the top of the top longeron with the original solid axle gear setup with 24"x4" wheels, measured in the flying attitude (not sitting on the tailwheel). My assumption is that there is nothing magic about that dimension, and in fact it seems that many Piets that use J-3 style gear sit a tad higher thanthat. Getting in and out of the cockpits would seem to be the most important factor to be considered when adjusting that dimension. While I don'texpect folks to go run out and measure their Piets to check this, are there any offhand comments having to do with that dimension?Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing gearHowdy, low 'n' slow fliers;The plans indicate a dimension of 51" from the ground to the top of the top longeron with the original solid axle gear setup with 24"x4" wheels, measured in the flying attitude (not sitting on the tailwheel). My assumption is that there is nothing magic about that dimension, and in fact it seems that many Piets that use J-3 style gear sit a tad higher thanthat. Getting in and out of the cockpits would seem to be the most important factor to be considered when adjusting that dimension. While I don'texpect folks to go run out and measure their Piets to check this, are there any offhand comments having to do with that dimension?Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga taildrags(at)hotmail.com
That is how I built my gear, so that it met the 51" dimension because Ihave 24x4 wheels. Of course not flying yet so don't know how it is goingto work out.GeneOriginal Message:-----------------
That is how I built my gear, so that it met the 51" dimension because Ihave 24x4 wheels. Of course not flying yet so don't know how it is goingto work out.GeneOriginal Message:-----------------
Re: Pietenpol-List: bracket materials
Original Posted By: John Carmen jlcarmen(at)bellsouth.net
I neve thought of 4130 as an "exotic" material. While Bernie did use someother grade of mild steel (just as the manufacturers of the time, like Wacoand Travel Air, used 1020 steel) there are some advances that have becomeuniversally accepted practices, such as using 4130 which, after all, is notreally that expensive. Similiarly, Bernie may not have used AN hardware,but I think most everyone on here does. My 2 cents worth.GeneOriginal Message:-----------------
I neve thought of 4130 as an "exotic" material. While Bernie did use someother grade of mild steel (just as the manufacturers of the time, like Wacoand Travel Air, used 1020 steel) there are some advances that have becomeuniversally accepted practices, such as using 4130 which, after all, is notreally that expensive. Similiarly, Bernie may not have used AN hardware,but I think most everyone on here does. My 2 cents worth.GeneOriginal Message:-----------------
Re: Pietenpol-List:
Original Posted By: Maxime Gou
dude..... go here to be removedhttp://www.matronics.com/subscriptionDJ ----- Original Message -----
dude..... go here to be removedhttp://www.matronics.com/subscriptionDJ ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: bracket materials
Original Posted By: Les Schubert
thanks for the followup Les.... I did misinterpret your statements i guess. your points are well takenDJ ----- Original Message -----
thanks for the followup Les.... I did misinterpret your statements i guess. your points are well takenDJ ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: cat_designs(at)juno.com
Pieters,In case anyone cares, I didn't use 55 gal drums in building my plane. I used 4130throughout. I only related the story about Bernie Pietenpol to illustratethe apparent strength tolerance that is designed into the plane.John Dilatush NX114D________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:47:44 GMTSubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Pieters,In case anyone cares, I didn't use 55 gal drums in building my plane. I used 4130throughout. I only related the story about Bernie Pietenpol to illustratethe apparent strength tolerance that is designed into the plane.John Dilatush NX114D________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:47:44 GMTSubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Re: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By:
These are original 24x4 wire wheels which I do not believe have ever beenmounted on an airplane. I disassembled them and bead blasted and paintedthem and installed all new spokes from Buchanans. I would like to sellthem, however, if you are interested.Gene----- Original Message -----
These are original 24x4 wire wheels which I do not believe have ever beenmounted on an airplane. I disassembled them and bead blasted and paintedthem and installed all new spokes from Buchanans. I would like to sellthem, however, if you are interested.Gene----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: Galen Hutcheson
Hey allI didn't post the suggestion from a "purist" point of view. I am the last oneto be on that side of things. When my new Spuer Piet rolls out next year, itwill be radically different than any out there. However, I am looking at it fromthe point of view of the pile of left over parts that didn't work out frommy experimenting last time. I spent too many extra hours to count, trying tochange things and lots of money too.Practically, stick to the plans. It's only an opinion. The only thing I disagree with is that "the plans are boring."I have always said that BHP continued to try new things and improve onthe design. But I firmly belive that you should fly it first then work on changes.Dick N.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Hey allI didn't post the suggestion from a "purist" point of view. I am the last oneto be on that side of things. When my new Spuer Piet rolls out next year, itwill be radically different than any out there. However, I am looking at it fromthe point of view of the pile of left over parts that didn't work out frommy experimenting last time. I spent too many extra hours to count, trying tochange things and lots of money too.Practically, stick to the plans. It's only an opinion. The only thing I disagree with is that "the plans are boring."I have always said that BHP continued to try new things and improve onthe design. But I firmly belive that you should fly it first then work on changes.Dick N.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Has anyone ever thought about using a spring gear on the pietenpol. Wittman tailwind,Cessna 140, and the Zodiac 601 all use this gear to great success. Theoriginal PIET had a model A engine and Bernie went to a Corvair Like I am doing.I am not a purist so I am always thinking of a better way if there is one.Gardiner Mason________________________________________________________________________________
Has anyone ever thought about using a spring gear on the pietenpol. Wittman tailwind,Cessna 140, and the Zodiac 601 all use this gear to great success. Theoriginal PIET had a model A engine and Bernie went to a Corvair Like I am doing.I am not a purist so I am always thinking of a better way if there is one.Gardiner Mason________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gearI'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if Iever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would bethe thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., butwith some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on thewood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building timeinvested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't thinkyou would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear withHagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively lightat 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but Iwould love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4.Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there isanother damn artic blast blowing threw again today.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: landing gearDate: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:49:15 -0500
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gearI'm not using spring gear, but have thought of wanting to try it if Iever built a second Piet. The lighter Grove aluminum gear legs would bethe thing to use. Probably work best with with a steel tube fus., butwith some beefing in the gear box area, I think it would work on thewood fus. also. I think you would have less hours of building timeinvested with the spring gear,but after all the beefing I don't thinkyou would have much savings in weight. I built the J-3 type gear withHagar brakes, and Douglass alum. atv. wheels and it is relatively lightat 48 lbs. complete. This part is insane and I will never do it, but Iwould love to build a Piet. in all aluminum. The fus. built like a BD-4.Leon S. in Ks with nothing better to do but day dream because there isanother damn artic blast blowing threw again today.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: landing gearDate: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:49:15 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: santiago morete
Santiago, thank you for sending the landing gear picture. Do you have any idea where the Piet is located,or who the owner is? I would like to get more info on material and attach points. Thanks, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message -----
Santiago, thank you for sending the landing gear picture. Do you have any idea where the Piet is located,or who the owner is? I would like to get more info on material and attach points. Thanks, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: "walt evans"
Re: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: santiago morete
Looks like somewhere in South Africa... ----- Original Message -----
Looks like somewhere in South Africa... ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Winter is long here as well - thinking of a composite Piet....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Winter is long here as well - thinking of a composite Piet....Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Oooo.A Sky-camper! You take advantage of the fact that TC has left thebuilding, although I'm sure this is merely the Sunday morning musings of anidle mind. Joe - Please explain yourself before you invoke the wrath of hisdeputy, Safety Dan! I suspect that this falls into the category of 'somethings you just don't do', like pee into the wind, or kick sand in ChuckNorris' face.Gary BootheNX308MB
Oooo.A Sky-camper! You take advantage of the fact that TC has left thebuilding, although I'm sure this is merely the Sunday morning musings of anidle mind. Joe - Please explain yourself before you invoke the wrath of hisdeputy, Safety Dan! I suspect that this falls into the category of 'somethings you just don't do', like pee into the wind, or kick sand in ChuckNorris' face.Gary BootheNX308MB
RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: gboothe5(at)comcast.net
I looked at doing this -(not the peeing into the wind part) - The vertical strut that goes up to the top longeron seems to be the problem for the aircamper. The point that it meets the longeron in the scout is braced horizontally across the fuselage where as in the aircamper=2C it wouldn't be due to the location of the front seat. Of course this was after looking at it for 5-10 minutes so It's possible that I missed something and someone might be able to figure something out.Tom B.
I looked at doing this -(not the peeing into the wind part) - The vertical strut that goes up to the top longeron seems to be the problem for the aircamper. The point that it meets the longeron in the scout is braced horizontally across the fuselage where as in the aircamper=2C it wouldn't be due to the location of the front seat. Of course this was after looking at it for 5-10 minutes so It's possible that I missed something and someone might be able to figure something out.Tom B.
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: "echobravo4"
Mine are about a half inch I'd say (I'm not where the plane is now to check forsure).That upper hole being located on the centerline of the longeron should set thingswhere they were designed to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Mine are about a half inch I'd say (I'm not where the plane is now to check forsure).That upper hole being located on the centerline of the longeron should set thingswhere they were designed to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
yep-been doneWalter Argenbright- pics on west coast piet--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:53:01 +0800 (WST)
yep-been doneWalter Argenbright- pics on west coast piet--------Earl BrownI may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where Iintended to be.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 23:53:01 +0800 (WST)
RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
JoeYou mean something like this? One thing you learn after being involved withPietenpol for a while is, if you can think of it someone already tried it.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com _____
JoeYou mean something like this? One thing you learn after being involved withPietenpol for a while is, if you can think of it someone already tried it.ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questionsYou're just custom fitting each hole to the bolt....picking up theslack from the manufacturing tolerances....ahemSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 9, 2012, at 3:45 PM, tools wrote:>>> kevinpurtee wrote:>> When you take your hand drill and use a technique called "wallering" to getthe bolts to go through...>>> Man ain't this the truth! In all fairness, will probably have to "waller" abit less though.>> waller (n. wall-er latin) 1. art of making bolts fit close tolerance holes>> sp. wallo, wallos, wallamos, wallas, wallan>> Is it too late to get this in the Tony B. glossary of homebuilding terms?>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel Fittings and Prep questionsYou're just custom fitting each hole to the bolt....picking up theslack from the manufacturing tolerances....ahemSent from my iPhoneOn Sep 9, 2012, at 3:45 PM, tools wrote:>>> kevinpurtee wrote:>> When you take your hand drill and use a technique called "wallering" to getthe bolts to go through...>>> Man ain't this the truth! In all fairness, will probably have to "waller" abit less though.>> waller (n. wall-er latin) 1. art of making bolts fit close tolerance holes>> sp. wallo, wallos, wallamos, wallas, wallan>> Is it too late to get this in the Tony B. glossary of homebuilding terms?>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: V Groah
Pietenwhatinthheckisthat? I like his cargo pods on the lift struts, though.--------Billy McCaskillBaker, LAtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenwhatinthheckisthat? I like his cargo pods on the lift struts, though.--------Billy McCaskillBaker, LAtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: landing gear
Original Posted By: "Daniel Engelkenjohn"
Billy,I believe "the ordnance" are actually small cargo compartments.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Billy,I believe "the ordnance" are actually small cargo compartments.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: landing gear
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
JoeThis is what I havehttp://westcoastpiet.com/images/Construction/Untitled-1.JPGChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com _____
JoeThis is what I havehttp://westcoastpiet.com/images/Construction/Untitled-1.JPGChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail tape
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
You can find a nice writeup on the spring struts on William Wynne's flycorvair.netsite if you search on keyword 'springs'. Here's a snip from that site: Thesprings are available from A/C spruce for about $100. Their rating is 1200 poundsper inch. They are 1 ID, 2 OD, and 6 long. the spring works in compression.This is for the "captive spring" setup that William describes.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:32:33 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail tape
You can find a nice writeup on the spring struts on William Wynne's flycorvair.netsite if you search on keyword 'springs'. Here's a snip from that site: Thesprings are available from A/C spruce for about $100. Their rating is 1200 poundsper inch. They are 1 ID, 2 OD, and 6 long. the spring works in compression.This is for the "captive spring" setup that William describes.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 20:32:33 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail tape
Pietenpol-List: Re: One Wing Complete (weight) and C.S. Complete (Weight)
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
I found this while reading through the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. From theman himself. 95 pounds.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Wing Complete (weight) and C.S. Complete (Weight)
I found this while reading through the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual. From theman himself. 95 pounds.--------Semper Fi,Terry HandAthens, GARead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: One Wing Complete (weight) and C.S. Complete (Weight)
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Terry; that's an interesting figure. So my two wings together, without even consideringthe weight of the center section, weigh 20 lbs. more than Mr. Pietenpol'sentire one-piece wing. I have heard that the 3-piece wing (especially witha flop section) weighs more than the 1-piece, but this quantifies the possibleweight saving by building a simple and light 1-piece. Everyone who has builtone seems to agree that it is a pain to handle the 1-piece wing while buildingthough.I have taken advantage of the demountability of separate wings twice now, whenI have had to trailer the airplane. I can't imagine demounting and remountinga 1-piece without having plenty of hands available.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 19:48:46 -0800 (PST)
Terry; that's an interesting figure. So my two wings together, without even consideringthe weight of the center section, weigh 20 lbs. more than Mr. Pietenpol'sentire one-piece wing. I have heard that the 3-piece wing (especially witha flop section) weighs more than the 1-piece, but this quantifies the possibleweight saving by building a simple and light 1-piece. Everyone who has builtone seems to agree that it is a pain to handle the 1-piece wing while buildingthough.I have taken advantage of the demountability of separate wings twice now, whenI have had to trailer the airplane. I can't imagine demounting and remountinga 1-piece without having plenty of hands available.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 19:48:46 -0800 (PST)