Original Posted By: Doug413(at)aol.com
Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking thatthey would make it easier to get in and out. Mark________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Doug413(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsIn a message dated 4/1/01 7:38:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net writes:> Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking that> they would make it easier to get in and out. Mark> > > Mark,I used plan length for my first aircamper because I am small and the airplane fits me well. On the second aircamper, the Bryant/Gantzer aircamper, we raised the wing 2 inches because Chuck will be the one flying this airplane and needs the space. BHP raised the wing 4 inches on the first corvair airpalne but thought it was a little too much so he went to 2 inches on the last one. I think 2 inches is quite common and it looks good. Doug Bryant ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsIn a message dated 4/1/01 7:38:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mckellar(at)bluebonnet.net writes:> Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking that> they would make it easier to get in and out. Mark> > > Mark,I used plan length for my first aircamper because I am small and the airplane fits me well. On the second aircamper, the Bryant/Gantzer aircamper, we raised the wing 2 inches because Chuck will be the one flying this airplane and needs the space. BHP raised the wing 4 inches on the first corvair airpalne but thought it was a little too much so he went to 2 inches on the last one. I think 2 inches is quite common and it looks good. Doug Bryant ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Michael Brusilow"
Doug, Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna go with the 2 in. increase soundsgood to me. Mark________________________________________________________________________________
Doug, Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna go with the 2 in. increase soundsgood to me. Mark________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "R deCosta"
"Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking thatthey would make it easier to get in and out. Mark"Mark, most builders do. About 21/2 to 3 in.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
"Gentlemen, Has anyone used longer cabane struts. I was thinking thatthey would make it easier to get in and out. Mark"Mark, most builders do. About 21/2 to 3 in.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Jim asked,>does anyone know what an Alexander Eaglerock is?...and got some good answers, but for those who want to inquire further there are some good photos at this site:http://www.museumofflight.org/collectio ... ID=7Anyone who watched the video series from the 2001 "Corvair College" series where many rides were given in William Wynne's Piet, probably watched the various contortions needed to get into the front cockpit of the plane. Also, getting into the rear cockpit takes a bit of work unless there is a "flop" or a semicircular cutout of the aft edge of the center section (proven to be a detriment to the performance of the airplane, BTW). So lengthening the cabanes a bit to increase the available working space is a help. Various suggestions have been made, most being to lengthen the cabanes 4", but I don't know that I've ever seen any actual flying reports from anyone who has lengthened them 6" or 8" other than that they obviously haven't been killed in the crash of the plane due to extending the struts this much. It's got to affect the handling having the geometry altered by a significant distance though.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:47:59 -0600 (CST)
Jim asked,>does anyone know what an Alexander Eaglerock is?...and got some good answers, but for those who want to inquire further there are some good photos at this site:http://www.museumofflight.org/collectio ... ID=7Anyone who watched the video series from the 2001 "Corvair College" series where many rides were given in William Wynne's Piet, probably watched the various contortions needed to get into the front cockpit of the plane. Also, getting into the rear cockpit takes a bit of work unless there is a "flop" or a semicircular cutout of the aft edge of the center section (proven to be a detriment to the performance of the airplane, BTW). So lengthening the cabanes a bit to increase the available working space is a help. Various suggestions have been made, most being to lengthen the cabanes 4", but I don't know that I've ever seen any actual flying reports from anyone who has lengthened them 6" or 8" other than that they obviously haven't been killed in the crash of the plane due to extending the struts this much. It's got to affect the handling having the geometry altered by a significant distance though.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 14:47:59 -0600 (CST)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/31/03
Original Posted By: "Lynn & Doris Knoll"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/31/03In a message dated 3/31/03 11:57:04 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 03/31/03In a message dated 3/31/03 11:57:04 PM, pietenpol-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Richard Navratril"
Before I put saw to streamline tubing I just want to confirm the properlength for the cabane struts. I thought that the conventional wisdom is tolengthen them 2" from the drawings, but someone recently mentionedlengthening them 3" or 4". I have also heard someone mention that there isa maximum that should not be exceeded. What are the proper numbers??Gene________________________________________________________________________________
Before I put saw to streamline tubing I just want to confirm the properlength for the cabane struts. I thought that the conventional wisdom is tolengthen them 2" from the drawings, but someone recently mentionedlengthening them 3" or 4". I have also heard someone mention that there isa maximum that should not be exceeded. What are the proper numbers??Gene________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
GeneI went 2" over, glad I did. Another inch would have been helpful, but inSport Aviation a couple of months ago there was a Piet that was built 4"over. I don't know, I think that started stretching the porportional eyeappeal. Thats only my opinion.Dick----- Original Message -----
GeneI went 2" over, glad I did. Another inch would have been helpful, but inSport Aviation a couple of months ago there was a Piet that was built 4"over. I don't know, I think that started stretching the porportional eyeappeal. Thats only my opinion.Dick----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsIn a message dated 5/17/03 10:19:50 PM Central Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com writes:>Gene,I am 6' tall, and lengthened mine 2". From the left side I have to lift my right foot to the seat, with both hands on the cabane struts,bring the left foot up over, and streatch way out over the right side to get my foot up over the longeron, while dragging my back on the bottom of the wing. It has become very easy for me to get in and out, taking only a few seconds.Chuck Gantzer________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsIn a message dated 5/17/03 10:19:50 PM Central Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com writes:>Gene,I am 6' tall, and lengthened mine 2". From the left side I have to lift my right foot to the seat, with both hands on the cabane struts,bring the left foot up over, and streatch way out over the right side to get my foot up over the longeron, while dragging my back on the bottom of the wing. It has become very easy for me to get in and out, taking only a few seconds.Chuck Gantzer________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Gene,I made mine 2-1/2" longer than plans and to me, they seem about right.There is sufficient room under the wing to allow reasonable access to bothcockpits (I'm 6'2" tall). I have added steps to both cockpits and acircular cutout in the trailing edge. Front cockpit is still a littledifficult to get in and out of. But as for the "correct" length, there isno such animal, IMHO. I'll bet if you went to OSH and measured the strutsof the two BHP-built Piets there, you would find they had different lengths.Jack -----Original Message-----
Gene,I made mine 2-1/2" longer than plans and to me, they seem about right.There is sufficient room under the wing to allow reasonable access to bothcockpits (I'm 6'2" tall). I have added steps to both cockpits and acircular cutout in the trailing edge. Front cockpit is still a littledifficult to get in and out of. But as for the "correct" length, there isno such animal, IMHO. I'll bet if you went to OSH and measured the strutsof the two BHP-built Piets there, you would find they had different lengths.Jack -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Jon Botsford"
Thanks everyone that have responded, I'm still interested to hear from moreof you. I am 6'1", so I want all the room I can get without messing up theappearance. I still think I remember some mention of an upper limit forsome structural or aerodynamic reason.I happen to have two pieces of streamline tubing the right size, and theyare 48" long. If I cut them so that one is 1" longer than the other, theywill turn out to be 24 1/2" and 23 1/2" long. Giving the proper edgedistance from the bolt holes that would make them 24 1/8" and 23 1/8"between bolt holes (which I'll probably make an even 24 and 23) Soooooothey'll be 2 1/2" longer than the plans. Enough to help without hurting theappearance??Gene________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks everyone that have responded, I'm still interested to hear from moreof you. I am 6'1", so I want all the room I can get without messing up theappearance. I still think I remember some mention of an upper limit forsome structural or aerodynamic reason.I happen to have two pieces of streamline tubing the right size, and theyare 48" long. If I cut them so that one is 1" longer than the other, theywill turn out to be 24 1/2" and 23 1/2" long. Giving the proper edgedistance from the bolt holes that would make them 24 1/8" and 23 1/8"between bolt holes (which I'll probably make an even 24 and 23) Soooooothey'll be 2 1/2" longer than the plans. Enough to help without hurting theappearance??Gene________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Richard deCosta
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsIn a message dated 5/18/2003 9:27:44 AM Central Standard Time, rambog(at)erols.com writes:> I still think I remember some mention of an upper limit for> some structural or aerodynamic reason.> Gene, you may be thinking about the comment by Pete Bowers in his articles for the BPAN in which he flew four or five different Piets. His opinion was that if you lengthened the cabanes and were using a center section fuel tank (assuming it was full) you would raise the vertical center of gravity and tend to aggravate any tendency to ground loop. That may have some validity at 4 or more inches but doubt that 2 or less would make that much difference. Don ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:40:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsIn a message dated 5/18/2003 9:27:44 AM Central Standard Time, rambog(at)erols.com writes:> I still think I remember some mention of an upper limit for> some structural or aerodynamic reason.> Gene, you may be thinking about the comment by Pete Bowers in his articles for the BPAN in which he flew four or five different Piets. His opinion was that if you lengthened the cabanes and were using a center section fuel tank (assuming it was full) you would raise the vertical center of gravity and tend to aggravate any tendency to ground loop. That may have some validity at 4 or more inches but doubt that 2 or less would make that much difference. Don ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:40:39 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Jake Crause"
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Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cutting and grinding aluminum
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
a bandsaw cuts aluminum struts just fine. for grinding I use my 12" bench disc sander or an angle grinder. be careful though.... aluminum is VERY efficient and heat transfer. it'll get real hot real quick when grinding on it.DJ Veghwww.imagedv.com/aircamperN74DVMesa, AZ----- Original Message -----
a bandsaw cuts aluminum struts just fine. for grinding I use my 12" bench disc sander or an angle grinder. be careful though.... aluminum is VERY efficient and heat transfer. it'll get real hot real quick when grinding on it.DJ Veghwww.imagedv.com/aircamperN74DVMesa, AZ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Jeff Hill"
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Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Jeff Hill
Cabanes are the talk of the group latelyI used Carlson Aircraft aluminum struts. www.sky-tek.comAbout 75% cheaper than 4130 with only a small penalty in weight.DJ Veghwww.imagedv.com/aircamperN74DV ----- Original Message -----
Cabanes are the talk of the group latelyI used Carlson Aircraft aluminum struts. www.sky-tek.comAbout 75% cheaper than 4130 with only a small penalty in weight.DJ Veghwww.imagedv.com/aircamperN74DV ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"
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Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Phillips, Jack
Why not laminate your cabanes from wood (I used light maple and mahoghany) andsandwich in some carbon fiber? Incredibly light (mine are around 12-15 ounceseach) and strong. Someone once did the math and said each of the 4 cabanes on the typical Air Camper(if there IS such a thing....) only had about 50 pounds of lift (tension)to handle. I don't know how accurate that is, but a 1" X 2" wooden cabane (evenwithout the carbon fiber inlay) will easily handle that.....Just a thought....JM(I have a set I made from black walnut/maple (doesn't everyone build 3 sets ofeverything before they have the one they'll use????) that I'll probably take toBrodhead this summer.......) ----- Original Message -----
Why not laminate your cabanes from wood (I used light maple and mahoghany) andsandwich in some carbon fiber? Incredibly light (mine are around 12-15 ounceseach) and strong. Someone once did the math and said each of the 4 cabanes on the typical Air Camper(if there IS such a thing....) only had about 50 pounds of lift (tension)to handle. I don't know how accurate that is, but a 1" X 2" wooden cabane (evenwithout the carbon fiber inlay) will easily handle that.....Just a thought....JM(I have a set I made from black walnut/maple (doesn't everyone build 3 sets ofeverything before they have the one they'll use????) that I'll probably take toBrodhead this summer.......) ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
it's most certainly more than 50#. I did the calcs a while back when I boughtmy aluminum struts. I came up to a few hundred pounds at 1G (remember theyare at about a 60=B0 angle)If planning for a +5G load you're looking at over 1,000#Still... wood works and looks cool too.... so long as they are built right... especiallythe ends.DJ ----- Original Message -----
it's most certainly more than 50#. I did the calcs a while back when I boughtmy aluminum struts. I came up to a few hundred pounds at 1G (remember theyare at about a 60=B0 angle)If planning for a +5G load you're looking at over 1,000#Still... wood works and looks cool too.... so long as they are built right... especiallythe ends.DJ ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: DJ Vegh
Cabanes...not lift struts....yes, agreed, the lift struts are MUCH more than 50pounds..... ----- Original Message -----
Cabanes...not lift struts....yes, agreed, the lift struts are MUCH more than 50pounds..... ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
ooops my badDJ ----- Original Message -----
ooops my badDJ ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane struts
Original Posted By: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsOne thing to keep in mind when using aluminum struts, is that aluminum is much less forgiving than steel. Aluminum requires accurate holes, and NO nicksor scratches. After put into service, nicks or scratches (stress risers) couldrender the part unservicable, and un-airworthy. If a bolt should loosen up, and woller out the hole slightly, the part is unservicable, and un-airworthy. For these reasons, I strongly suggest the use of steel.Chuck GantzerNX770CGSmoke 'em, if ya got 'em !!________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane strutsOne thing to keep in mind when using aluminum struts, is that aluminum is much less forgiving than steel. Aluminum requires accurate holes, and NO nicksor scratches. After put into service, nicks or scratches (stress risers) couldrender the part unservicable, and un-airworthy. If a bolt should loosen up, and woller out the hole slightly, the part is unservicable, and un-airworthy. For these reasons, I strongly suggest the use of steel.Chuck GantzerNX770CGSmoke 'em, if ya got 'em !!________________________________________________________________________________