Original Posted By:
If anyone knows of anyone thinking about buying the Piet plans advertised oneBay.....please don't....without EVEN discussing the legalities, it's justnot right to make copies of these plans and sell them.....just ain'tright....I usually manage to stay out of stuff that isn't any of my concern but Ijust couldn't keep quiet about this one....This is the reply I got to an inquiry about where he was getting theplans.....----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Fw: Question from eBay Member
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Question from eBay Member
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
Original Posted By: "Carl D. Vought"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
Original Posted By: Don Morris
In addition to what Don says, the impulse coupling, if you have one cannot be reversed.You would have to find one that operates in the direction you want. The pawl that the impulse engages with at low RPM would have to be relocatedto one of the other holes as well. Looking at mag will let you know what I mean.The cam that opens and shuts the points has to be flipped over end for endso that the points open at the proper time. The mark on the gear on the rotorhas to be remeshed with the bigger gear that distributes the spark, aligningthe LH markings for a LH rotating mag, etc.Then it is best to remark the mag on the outside so you don't ball yourself upthinking that the mag spins the other way when it does not!BTW, a mag will not create a spark if it is spun backwards. A good thing to knowwhen handproping and needing to reposition the prop...Chris Bobka ----- Original Message -----
In addition to what Don says, the impulse coupling, if you have one cannot be reversed.You would have to find one that operates in the direction you want. The pawl that the impulse engages with at low RPM would have to be relocatedto one of the other holes as well. Looking at mag will let you know what I mean.The cam that opens and shuts the points has to be flipped over end for endso that the points open at the proper time. The mark on the gear on the rotorhas to be remeshed with the bigger gear that distributes the spark, aligningthe LH markings for a LH rotating mag, etc.Then it is best to remark the mag on the outside so you don't ball yourself upthinking that the mag spins the other way when it does not!BTW, a mag will not create a spark if it is spun backwards. A good thing to knowwhen handproping and needing to reposition the prop...Chris Bobka ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Magneto stuff
Original Posted By: "Michael D Cuy"
Michael!Both mags spin the same way on the A-65 or with almost any engine! YourA-65-8 would use RH rotation mags. The mags are driven off of the gear onthe back of the crank. This is the same gear that drives the cam. Thisgear is rotating the same direction as the prop which is CW when in thecockpit and anti CW when looking at the prop from the front. This wouldmean that the gears on the mags and cam would have to turn the other waywhich would be anti CW if you were holding the mag with the gear pointingaway from you. Convention says that you determine the mag rotation bylooking at the mag from its driven end and the way the top of the gearrotates. So if it is anti CW when the gear is pointed away, then it is isCW when the gear is pointing at you. CW means the top moves to the right,hence the RH rotation. Mags used on the A-65 include SF4R, S4RN, AM-4 witha RH and an arrow, or with Slicks you will have an RH stamped on the dataplate. That is why the R in the names.If you have a C series or an O-200 that is starter equipped, then the magsare driven by the cam gear rather than the crank gear. This is toaccomodate the starter and the generator pads on the accessory case. We sawabove that the cam gear rotates anti CW when you are sitting in the cockpit.Therefore the mags go the other way from the cam gear that they are drivenby. This is the same way as the prop. LH would be the rotation at the topwhen you look at the mag from its driven end. Mags used on these enginesinclude the S4LN, AM-4 with an LH and an arrow, or with Slicks, you willhave an LH stamped on the data plate.Chris----- Original Message -----
Michael!Both mags spin the same way on the A-65 or with almost any engine! YourA-65-8 would use RH rotation mags. The mags are driven off of the gear onthe back of the crank. This is the same gear that drives the cam. Thisgear is rotating the same direction as the prop which is CW when in thecockpit and anti CW when looking at the prop from the front. This wouldmean that the gears on the mags and cam would have to turn the other waywhich would be anti CW if you were holding the mag with the gear pointingaway from you. Convention says that you determine the mag rotation bylooking at the mag from its driven end and the way the top of the gearrotates. So if it is anti CW when the gear is pointed away, then it is isCW when the gear is pointing at you. CW means the top moves to the right,hence the RH rotation. Mags used on the A-65 include SF4R, S4RN, AM-4 witha RH and an arrow, or with Slicks you will have an RH stamped on the dataplate. That is why the R in the names.If you have a C series or an O-200 that is starter equipped, then the magsare driven by the cam gear rather than the crank gear. This is toaccomodate the starter and the generator pads on the accessory case. We sawabove that the cam gear rotates anti CW when you are sitting in the cockpit.Therefore the mags go the other way from the cam gear that they are drivenby. This is the same way as the prop. LH would be the rotation at the topwhen you look at the mag from its driven end. Mags used on these enginesinclude the S4LN, AM-4 with an LH and an arrow, or with Slicks, you willhave an LH stamped on the data plate.Chris----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Question from eBay Member
Original Posted By: "Michael D Cuy"
I thought long and hard about bidding on the plans. The thing is I amlooking for a set as a REFERENCE ONLY. I have several sets of plans I havegotten as copies and when I was ready to start on a Graham Lee Nieuport Ibought a set of serial numbered plans to make it legal. It is extremelyunethical to build a second plane off of the same plans and deprive thedesigner of the meager income they generate. After thinking about it I feltthat buying them would only encourage him to sell additional copies anddidn't bid. Of course I am still in the position that I would really liketo study the plans and don't have access to a set.How would I go about getting a set to study and NOT build from? I have apant load of projects and don't have time to add another but the engineer inme really wants to look at how BP solved a bunch of design problems.Hank J----- Original Message -----
I thought long and hard about bidding on the plans. The thing is I amlooking for a set as a REFERENCE ONLY. I have several sets of plans I havegotten as copies and when I was ready to start on a Graham Lee Nieuport Ibought a set of serial numbered plans to make it legal. It is extremelyunethical to build a second plane off of the same plans and deprive thedesigner of the meager income they generate. After thinking about it I feltthat buying them would only encourage him to sell additional copies anddidn't bid. Of course I am still in the position that I would really liketo study the plans and don't have access to a set.How would I go about getting a set to study and NOT build from? I have apant load of projects and don't have time to add another but the engineer inme really wants to look at how BP solved a bunch of design problems.Hank J----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Question from eBay Member
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Good for you, Jim. He can't say "I didn't know..."There's a guy (ebay alias of "Uncle Willie") that's doing this on awholesale basis (and making a fortune at it) with model airplane plans. Evenworse than copying other's plans, he "fixes" them. Apparently, eBay reallydoesn't care to take action on wholesale copyright fraud taking place onit's site, especially if the original copyright owner isn't making thecomplaint.http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... =willieNot all future Piet builders would go for this, fortunately. Heck, I have acopied set of plans that a Piet-building friend gave me. I couldn't affordto buy the real ones, so I got them as a head start to look over while Idream about my future project. Yet even though I probably could build fromthem, I won't do it, nor will I give them to someone else. When I get readyto start, I will buy a new set from the Pietenpol family. Not only will I besure to have all the right plans, but I can rest at night knowing that I'vehelped make it worthwhile to Bernie's family to go to the trouble tocontinue the fine tradition that he gave to us all. They aren't getting richon the plans, I'm 100% sure of that. Then the copies will make functionalwallpaper for the shop bathroom or something.Shame on these people. It's sad that they have no respect for those who makethis airplane a viable option. Fortunately they're the exception and not therule.-MikeMike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.netWebmaster, OV-10 Bronco Associationhttp://www.ov-10bronco.net/----- Original Message -----
Good for you, Jim. He can't say "I didn't know..."There's a guy (ebay alias of "Uncle Willie") that's doing this on awholesale basis (and making a fortune at it) with model airplane plans. Evenworse than copying other's plans, he "fixes" them. Apparently, eBay reallydoesn't care to take action on wholesale copyright fraud taking place onit's site, especially if the original copyright owner isn't making thecomplaint.http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... =willieNot all future Piet builders would go for this, fortunately. Heck, I have acopied set of plans that a Piet-building friend gave me. I couldn't affordto buy the real ones, so I got them as a head start to look over while Idream about my future project. Yet even though I probably could build fromthem, I won't do it, nor will I give them to someone else. When I get readyto start, I will buy a new set from the Pietenpol family. Not only will I besure to have all the right plans, but I can rest at night knowing that I'vehelped make it worthwhile to Bernie's family to go to the trouble tocontinue the fine tradition that he gave to us all. They aren't getting richon the plans, I'm 100% sure of that. Then the copies will make functionalwallpaper for the shop bathroom or something.Shame on these people. It's sad that they have no respect for those who makethis airplane a viable option. Fortunately they're the exception and not therule.-MikeMike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.netWebmaster, OV-10 Bronco Associationhttp://www.ov-10bronco.net/----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Question from eBay Member
Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"
At first I wondered why someone would make copies of something they had noright to copy.....and then sell those copies. Frankly, I had hoped that youhad some kind of right legally sell copies of the plans. Do you? ThePietenpol family definitely does....Have you considered though that someone might actually build a plane fromthese plans??? and possibly have a problem with that plane???....YOU'LL thenhave a problem far greater than any ethical issues you've obviously learnedto live with......Your moral fiber and lack of ethics won't mean much when someone has aproblem with a plane that is built from plans that can be traced back toyou.....If the moral issue is lost on you, think about your legal liability whensomeone is injured in a plane built to plans they bought from you.....Do you REALLY want that involvement?---------------Dear dfwplt,All the Pientepol plans I have for sale are copies of the originals. Hopethis helps.To respond to this eBay member go to:http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/ebayISAPI.d ... emberThank you,mgp60---------------________________________________________________________________________________
At first I wondered why someone would make copies of something they had noright to copy.....and then sell those copies. Frankly, I had hoped that youhad some kind of right legally sell copies of the plans. Do you? ThePietenpol family definitely does....Have you considered though that someone might actually build a plane fromthese plans??? and possibly have a problem with that plane???....YOU'LL thenhave a problem far greater than any ethical issues you've obviously learnedto live with......Your moral fiber and lack of ethics won't mean much when someone has aproblem with a plane that is built from plans that can be traced back toyou.....If the moral issue is lost on you, think about your legal liability whensomeone is injured in a plane built to plans they bought from you.....Do you REALLY want that involvement?---------------Dear dfwplt,All the Pientepol plans I have for sale are copies of the originals. Hopethis helps.To respond to this eBay member go to:http://contact.ebay.com/ws1/ebayISAPI.d ... emberThank you,mgp60---------------________________________________________________________________________________