Original Posted By: "DOUGLAS BLACKBURN"
Well, my new Pietenpol, "Icarus Plummet", has joined the elite group ofCorky's (now Oscar's) Piet and John's "Mountain Piet". I had a forcedlanding yesterday morning which terminated in a groundloop and minor damageto the airplane.I had gone up for a photo shoot for an article in "Private Pilot"magazine onmy airplane. I was flying formation with an Aviat Husky photo plane (theywere flying with the door open and were nearly as cold as I was in the 27air) over Jordan Lake, a 14,000 acre lake just west of Raleigh, NC. Afterwe finished shooting the pictures over Jordan Lake we were heading back toCox Field, where my plane is based. Shortly after reaching the shoreline Ihad a partial power failure. The engine suddenly began running roughly andonly turning about 1300 - 1400 RPM. Not a total failure, but the best Icould maintain was about a 400 fpm descent. I was already carrying carbheat because I had picked up some carb ice. I tried turning carb heat off,but no change. Since I was only at 1300' MSL when it happened it didn'tgive me many options. I called the Husky on the radio and told them I hadengine trouble and was going down. I didn't think I could make it to Cox soI turned toward US 64 with the goal of landing at Deck Field, a 1300'private strip just south of US 64. By the time I reached US 64 I was downto about 200' AGL and was still two miles from Deck Field, and about 6 milesfrom Cox. I realized my options were down to one - land it on the highway.Wind was out of the east so I was at least landing into the wind.The Pietenpol's glide ratio is somewhere between that of a brick and abowling ball. I normally carry quite a bit of power through the landing togive it a normal flare. That power was not available now. The engine wasrunning slower and slower and finally quit just before I touched down. Iwas checking for traffic (4 wheel type) and found a pickup just below andslightly ahead of me. I slowed it up slightly and let him get ahead of me,then put the nose down to keep it flying. It touched down pretty hard onthe mains and bounced. I recovered, flared it and set it down 3-point andthought I had it made. It rolled out normally for a few seconds, slowing toabout 15-20 mph, when the right wing began to dip. I instinctively appliedleft aileron, then as it began to veer to the right I had full left rudderand was trying to find the left heel brake when it went off the road to theright and dove into a ditch, where it groundlooped. I was unhurt, andclimbed out of the cockpit after shutting off the fuel, the mags and themaster switch.It could have been a lot worse. If the engine had quit while I was out overthe lake it would have been a pretty cold swim home. If I had not beenclose to Hwy 64 (remember, by the time I got over the highway I was alreadydown to just a couple hundred feet), I would probably have had to put it inthe trees and certainly would have totalled the airplane, and probablygotten hurt pretty badly. I also managed to glide down to the highway overone set of power lines and under a second set (I never saw either one). SoI have a lot to be thankful for this Thanksgiving weekend, even though myplane was wrecked.Inspection revealed the axle had broken just inboard of the right wheel(which I think happened due to the hard landing and caused the groundloop)and the wheel was detached from the airframe, although it was still attachedby the brakeline. The fracture was right at the guide pin which I'm sureadded quite a bit of stress concentration. Damage was relatively minor. Inaddition to the broken axle, the horizontal stabilizer was broken in twoplaces on the right side, although the elevator appears to be OK. The rightaileron was damaged near the tip (I still had full left aileron in when thewing tip hit the ditch) and the tailwheel was sheared off. None of the mainstructure appears to be damaged (a tribute to the rugged design of thePietenpol). I should be able to have all the repairs done and have itflying again within 6 months or so. Of course, first I've got to figure outwhat happened to the engine to cause all this.I'll try to post some pictures of my wounded Piet tomorrow.Jack PhillipsRaleigh, NC________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: "bike.mike"
Jack, Glad you came out of it O.K. Do you know which issue the article will bein when it comes out yet? Let us know your findings on the engine trouble aswell when you can.Thanks,Doug BlackburnDoug & Elizabeth BlackburnYucaipa Californiawww.inlandsloperebels.comW W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782www.flycorvair.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted > I had gone up for a photo shoot for an article in "Private Pilot"magazineon> my airplane.>Of course, first I've got to figure out> what happened to the engine to cause all this.> I'll try to post some pictures of my wounded Piet tomorrow.> Jack Phillips> Raleigh, NC>>________________________________________________________________________________
Jack, Glad you came out of it O.K. Do you know which issue the article will bein when it comes out yet? Let us know your findings on the engine trouble aswell when you can.Thanks,Doug BlackburnDoug & Elizabeth BlackburnYucaipa Californiawww.inlandsloperebels.comW W's Conversion Manual 3202, 5782www.flycorvair.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted > I had gone up for a photo shoot for an article in "Private Pilot"magazineon> my airplane.>Of course, first I've got to figure out> what happened to the engine to cause all this.> I'll try to post some pictures of my wounded Piet tomorrow.> Jack Phillips> Raleigh, NC>>________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Holy cow, Jack!You were fortunate in so many ways. Your story reflects a cool head whichmay be your best thing to be thankful for. We're all glad you're alive (andwarm and dry) to talk about it.Mike HardawayPS Maybe you should consider changing the name...----- Original Message -----
Holy cow, Jack!You were fortunate in so many ways. Your story reflects a cool head whichmay be your best thing to be thankful for. We're all glad you're alive (andwarm and dry) to talk about it.Mike HardawayPS Maybe you should consider changing the name...----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Jack,Sorry about your tough luck. But you walked away. Better to have towalk away then to have to swim away!Did you say you are running an A-65?walt evansNX140DL----- Original Message -----
Jack,Sorry about your tough luck. But you walked away. Better to have towalk away then to have to swim away!Did you say you are running an A-65?walt evansNX140DL----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Doug,We never got to do the ground shots he wanted because we were going to dothem after the aerial shots. He said he'll hold off on the article until Ihave it flying again. He felt terrible about it and felt like it was allhis fault.I'll keep the list posted on the cause of the TWO failures (engine andaxle).I think I know what casued the engine failure, but am not sure until I canpull the carburetor and inspect it. After Oscar Zuniga's tale of inadequatecarb heat, I had added a wad of stainless steel wool in my heat muffs. Thewad was wedged in very tightly and seemed secure enough. I noticed thismorning that it was not in the heat muff, so I pulled the SCAT hose to seeif it had blocked that. No Steel wool present. My guess is that when Ipull the carburetor I will find it stuffed full of steel wool, either thator I will find it under a valve. Stupid.As for the axle, I suspect that I had a crack in the weld where the guidepin is welded to the axle, that went undetected. I subjected the gear to afew harder than usual landings during the initial test flights whichprobably caused the crack to propogate. It was not easily detectablebecause it is under the bungee cords. The impact of the hard landingyesterday probably cracked it further, allowing the axle to bend and causethe plane to veer off the road. The ensuing groundloop finished the job,snapping the axle in two.As I said, I'll keep the list posted on my findings. Hopefully I can keepsomeone else (who might not be as lucky as I was) from having the sameproblems.And yes, Walt. It is an A65-8 Continental.Jack -----Original Message-----
Doug,We never got to do the ground shots he wanted because we were going to dothem after the aerial shots. He said he'll hold off on the article until Ihave it flying again. He felt terrible about it and felt like it was allhis fault.I'll keep the list posted on the cause of the TWO failures (engine andaxle).I think I know what casued the engine failure, but am not sure until I canpull the carburetor and inspect it. After Oscar Zuniga's tale of inadequatecarb heat, I had added a wad of stainless steel wool in my heat muffs. Thewad was wedged in very tightly and seemed secure enough. I noticed thismorning that it was not in the heat muff, so I pulled the SCAT hose to seeif it had blocked that. No Steel wool present. My guess is that when Ipull the carburetor I will find it stuffed full of steel wool, either thator I will find it under a valve. Stupid.As for the axle, I suspect that I had a crack in the weld where the guidepin is welded to the axle, that went undetected. I subjected the gear to afew harder than usual landings during the initial test flights whichprobably caused the crack to propogate. It was not easily detectablebecause it is under the bungee cords. The impact of the hard landingyesterday probably cracked it further, allowing the axle to bend and causethe plane to veer off the road. The ensuing groundloop finished the job,snapping the axle in two.As I said, I'll keep the list posted on my findings. Hopefully I can keepsomeone else (who might not be as lucky as I was) from having the sameproblems.And yes, Walt. It is an A65-8 Continental.Jack -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Was the guide tube welded TO the bottom or THRU the bottom of the axle? Several of us are currently working on straight axles and some details would sure be appreciated.My EAA tech counselor told me to drill up thru the bottom of the axle and weld ONLY on the top surface.Sorry to belabor the issue but hopefully we can benefit from an already very sad situation.I'm really sorry.ThanksJM----- Original Message -----
Was the guide tube welded TO the bottom or THRU the bottom of the axle? Several of us are currently working on straight axles and some details would sure be appreciated.My EAA tech counselor told me to drill up thru the bottom of the axle and weld ONLY on the top surface.Sorry to belabor the issue but hopefully we can benefit from an already very sad situation.I'm really sorry.ThanksJM----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"
Oops, sorry. I found the axle details in the archive.....Again, VERY sorry to hear but I agree with everyone else, I'm VERY glad you're ok.JM----- Original Message -----
Oops, sorry. I found the axle details in the archive.....Again, VERY sorry to hear but I agree with everyone else, I'm VERY glad you're ok.JM----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Jack,Sorry to hear about your plane. Nice job on getting down though. The powerlines reminds me of a time when I jumped off a 8' fence as a kid. I landed just fine and started to walk away...but couldn't. I looked behind me to see what was holding me up only to find metal fence stake (those green ones with the white tips) had gone through the bottom of my pants, directly between my cheeks and out the top of my pants. Like you, I never saw it or felt it. Someone was definately watching over me. I figure an 1/8" closer or so and I would have landed vertically right on my tailbone from 8' above. Good to see you're okay.StacyThere is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
Jack,Sorry to hear about your plane. Nice job on getting down though. The powerlines reminds me of a time when I jumped off a 8' fence as a kid. I landed just fine and started to walk away...but couldn't. I looked behind me to see what was holding me up only to find metal fence stake (those green ones with the white tips) had gone through the bottom of my pants, directly between my cheeks and out the top of my pants. Like you, I never saw it or felt it. Someone was definately watching over me. I figure an 1/8" closer or so and I would have landed vertically right on my tailbone from 8' above. Good to see you're okay.StacyThere is only one greater thing than to believe in the impossible...and that is to achieve it -- Stacy Clark ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
This afternoon I finally got Icarus Plummet back into my basement andstarted looking through the damage. I can say with certainty that the axlebroke at the guide pin which had been welded top and bottom in a holedrilled through the axle. The axle was a tube of 1-1/2" O.D. x .120" wall4130 chromoly. It is obvious that a crack started at the weld on the bottomof the axle and had propogated about 1/2" before the accident. The hardimpact caused the axle to crack further, slowly giving way and causing thewing droop that I had noticed after landing. Once the plane got in theditch and groundlooped, the side loads finished the job and ripped the endof the axle with the wheel off.The good news is that even with the extreme side loads of a full blownground loop, my custom 6" wide hub wire wheels didn't bend or break. Bothwheels still roll true and don't show any signs of damage.I will definitely make the axle differently this next time. I think weldingthe guide pins only at the top makes good sense. That weld sees littleloading itself, but the weld in tension on the bottom of the axle has alarge potential to crack, and if it does crack, the crack is very difficultto detect because it is right underneath the bungee cords. I may try tosleeve the axle in that area and reinforce it because it is such a highstress area.Jack -----Original Message-----
This afternoon I finally got Icarus Plummet back into my basement andstarted looking through the damage. I can say with certainty that the axlebroke at the guide pin which had been welded top and bottom in a holedrilled through the axle. The axle was a tube of 1-1/2" O.D. x .120" wall4130 chromoly. It is obvious that a crack started at the weld on the bottomof the axle and had propogated about 1/2" before the accident. The hardimpact caused the axle to crack further, slowly giving way and causing thewing droop that I had noticed after landing. Once the plane got in theditch and groundlooped, the side loads finished the job and ripped the endof the axle with the wheel off.The good news is that even with the extreme side loads of a full blownground loop, my custom 6" wide hub wire wheels didn't bend or break. Bothwheels still roll true and don't show any signs of damage.I will definitely make the axle differently this next time. I think weldingthe guide pins only at the top makes good sense. That weld sees littleloading itself, but the weld in tension on the bottom of the axle has alarge potential to crack, and if it does crack, the crack is very difficultto detect because it is right underneath the bungee cords. I may try tosleeve the axle in that area and reinforce it because it is such a highstress area.Jack -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: ADonJr(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has PlummetedJack,Along with everyone else on the list, I'm Sorry to hear about your plane, but thank God you're all right, and that the plane is certainly repairable. It's a Huge advantage to for everyone to hear input from the actual pilot, and ask questions, instead of the crash investigators, to find out what actually happened. It helps others build a safer airplane. A couple of questions: You said you were already carrying carb heat, because you had picked up some ice. Were you at full power, and saw a slight reduction in rpm, and thenput in carb heat ? Was there visible moisture in the air ? What was the humidity ? At those lower temperatures it is my understanding that moisture inthe air is low. Did the guy in the truck see you in the rear view mirror, andcome back ? Did you find the stainless steel wool in the carb or engine ? Like Corky, I would like to hear more discussion of carb heat design. My heat muff is homemade, but is somewhat similar to the 7 AC stacks, in that it is 3003 aluminum wrap around the two stacks on the right side, however there isn't anything else there to make more surface area. I have about a 50 rpm drop, maybe even a little less, when I add carb heat on my A65.Corky, - How did you make more surface area inside the heat muff ?How much rpm drop do you other guys have ? I hope to hear some input on carb heat from others, too.Chuck GantzerNX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has PlummetedJack,Along with everyone else on the list, I'm Sorry to hear about your plane, but thank God you're all right, and that the plane is certainly repairable. It's a Huge advantage to for everyone to hear input from the actual pilot, and ask questions, instead of the crash investigators, to find out what actually happened. It helps others build a safer airplane. A couple of questions: You said you were already carrying carb heat, because you had picked up some ice. Were you at full power, and saw a slight reduction in rpm, and thenput in carb heat ? Was there visible moisture in the air ? What was the humidity ? At those lower temperatures it is my understanding that moisture inthe air is low. Did the guy in the truck see you in the rear view mirror, andcome back ? Did you find the stainless steel wool in the carb or engine ? Like Corky, I would like to hear more discussion of carb heat design. My heat muff is homemade, but is somewhat similar to the 7 AC stacks, in that it is 3003 aluminum wrap around the two stacks on the right side, however there isn't anything else there to make more surface area. I have about a 50 rpm drop, maybe even a little less, when I add carb heat on my A65.Corky, - How did you make more surface area inside the heat muff ?How much rpm drop do you other guys have ? I hope to hear some input on carb heat from others, too.Chuck GantzerNX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Jack, glad you're OK. You can always build another plane, it's a bit harderto rebuild the pilot. (We can rebuild him... have the technology...) Sorryto hear of any incident, but you have to keep these things in their properperspective and be thankful to the big guy upstairs for looking out for usthrough so many things that by all rights shouldn't have come out so well.Did the photo guys get any shots of your emergency landing? That might makefor an interesting story in itself!Mike "Sheep do not so much fly, as plummet" W.Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.netWebmaster, OV-10 Bronco Associationhttp://www.ov-10bronco.net/___________________ ... __________
Jack, glad you're OK. You can always build another plane, it's a bit harderto rebuild the pilot. (We can rebuild him... have the technology...) Sorryto hear of any incident, but you have to keep these things in their properperspective and be thankful to the big guy upstairs for looking out for usthrough so many things that by all rights shouldn't have come out so well.Did the photo guys get any shots of your emergency landing? That might makefor an interesting story in itself!Mike "Sheep do not so much fly, as plummet" W.Mike Whaley merlin@ov-10bronco.netWebmaster, OV-10 Bronco Associationhttp://www.ov-10bronco.net/___________________ ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has Plummeted
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has PlummetedChuck,Since you and others have asked HOW I altered the heat muff for better efficiency, honestly I had to stop to remember exactly how I did it. My memoryis much like that ole grey mare.That supply house muff for the 7AC has the intake and outlet air flanges opposite the other. Air is free to pass through without picking up much heat fromthe stacks. I took a piece of sheet metal, SS or alum I don't remember, drilled some holes for the bolts of the muff and tried to block that direct into out passage so the air flow would pass over more stack. I'll ask Oscar to takea look at the muff to be sure. Anyway, I think we all agree that it's inadequate heating whether flying along the Rio Grande, North Carolina, Coloradoor a flight to Beliese. Corky, trying to get the wheels turning on the bayou________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:51:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Icarus Plummet has PlummetedChuck,Since you and others have asked HOW I altered the heat muff for better efficiency, honestly I had to stop to remember exactly how I did it. My memoryis much like that ole grey mare.That supply house muff for the 7AC has the intake and outlet air flanges opposite the other. Air is free to pass through without picking up much heat fromthe stacks. I took a piece of sheet metal, SS or alum I don't remember, drilled some holes for the bolts of the muff and tried to block that direct into out passage so the air flow would pass over more stack. I'll ask Oscar to takea look at the muff to be sure. Anyway, I think we all agree that it's inadequate heating whether flying along the Rio Grande, North Carolina, Coloradoor a flight to Beliese. Corky, trying to get the wheels turning on the bayou________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:51:05 -0500