Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Ok, so my center section was already built when I inherited a fuse that was 1"wider than plans.....so to keep the cabanes vertically straight, I had to adda some space to the cabane attach fittings along the top longerons on each side.So does anyone have an idea what's the best way to fill that space? I'm thinkinga round bushing (sort of like a REALLY thick washer). Or (and this is my preference...),making a thick piece of Ash shaped kinda like the .040" fittingsI've embedded to the ends of the cabanes....basically "building out" the bottomsof the cabanes to the "full" thickness...I typically think about this sort of stuff for months before figuring it out butmy brain is tired and I want to finish this up....someone help me here.....(I made the attached picture small so hopefully it won't cause any download issuesfor anyone...)Thanks!Jim MarklePlano, TX214.505.6101________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....In a message dated 3/22/2005 5:41:49 PM Central Standard Time, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:Ok, so my center section was already built when I inherited a fuse that was 1" wider than plans.....so to keep the cabanes vertically straight, I had to add a some space to the cabane attach fittings along the top longerons on eachside.So does anyone have an idea what's the best way to fill that space? I'm thinking a round bushing (sort of like a REALLY thick washer). Or (and this ismy preference...), making a thick piece of Ash shaped kinda like the .040" fittings I've embedded to the ends of the cabanes....basically "building out" thebottoms of the cabanes to the "full" thickness...I typically think about this sort of stuff for months before figuring it out but my brain is tired and I want to finish this up....someone help me here.....(I made the attached picture small so hopefully it won't cause any download issues for anyone...)Thanks!Jim MarklePlano, TX214.505.6101Jim, I've been studying your picture, and I see your dilemma. The picture appears to be the front left lower cabane strut, with a hardware store bolt (usedfor pre-fit). Why did you cut the end off the wood that forms the arch ? I think the first thing to do, is consider all the possible remedies. Here is the ones I thought of, in the order of their preference:1) Slant the top of the cabanes inboard, while keeping the bolts in the horizontal plane - so the wing will still move for & aft. The angle would be maybe a quarter of a degree. This was my first thought, but I see you alreadyhave the holes drilled in the cabanes. Although, you could use the next size larger bolt, and file the holes top & bottom, (keeping them round) to maintaina horizontal hole....aw, scratch that thought...2) Offset the upper end of the cabane struts outboard 1/4", and the lower ends inboard 1/4", thus keeping the cabane struts vertical. This option wouldbe inline with the old carpenters adage - "Split the Difference". It may require building new cabane fittings top and bottom. 3) Offset the lower end of the cabanes 1/2" to the inboard, such as your picture indicates. I don't really like this option, because it seems it wouldimpart a bending moment on the lower fitting. I take it this would require a 1/2" joggle in the inboard strap fitting ? If you use the piece of Ash wood tofill the 1/2" outboard difference, I think the Ash should glued into the outboard sides of the cabanes, and be much longer up the cabane, maybe 4 or 5 inches, and blend into the cabane strut. Also, if you go with this option, I thinkyou should use the next thicker size inboard strap fitting, with the joggle in it. The cabanes & fittings should be kept in shear, and with a joggle on one side, and a bushing on the other side, it just doesn't seem like a good shear fitting.4) Build 4 new cabane struts, with the offset built in.5) Build a new center section.6) Build a new fuselage.7) Go get another beer, and sit and look at it for a couple more hours...Chuck G.p.s. Jim, I know these parts were already built when you got them, but, OK, I'm going to say it...This is the reason you hear so often - "Build it to the Plans". Changes have a ripple effect on everything. One inch wider cockpit will not make any difference in comfort.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....In a message dated 3/22/2005 5:41:49 PM Central Standard Time, jim_markle(at)mindspring.com writes:Ok, so my center section was already built when I inherited a fuse that was 1" wider than plans.....so to keep the cabanes vertically straight, I had to add a some space to the cabane attach fittings along the top longerons on eachside.So does anyone have an idea what's the best way to fill that space? I'm thinking a round bushing (sort of like a REALLY thick washer). Or (and this ismy preference...), making a thick piece of Ash shaped kinda like the .040" fittings I've embedded to the ends of the cabanes....basically "building out" thebottoms of the cabanes to the "full" thickness...I typically think about this sort of stuff for months before figuring it out but my brain is tired and I want to finish this up....someone help me here.....(I made the attached picture small so hopefully it won't cause any download issues for anyone...)Thanks!Jim MarklePlano, TX214.505.6101Jim, I've been studying your picture, and I see your dilemma. The picture appears to be the front left lower cabane strut, with a hardware store bolt (usedfor pre-fit). Why did you cut the end off the wood that forms the arch ? I think the first thing to do, is consider all the possible remedies. Here is the ones I thought of, in the order of their preference:1) Slant the top of the cabanes inboard, while keeping the bolts in the horizontal plane - so the wing will still move for & aft. The angle would be maybe a quarter of a degree. This was my first thought, but I see you alreadyhave the holes drilled in the cabanes. Although, you could use the next size larger bolt, and file the holes top & bottom, (keeping them round) to maintaina horizontal hole....aw, scratch that thought...2) Offset the upper end of the cabane struts outboard 1/4", and the lower ends inboard 1/4", thus keeping the cabane struts vertical. This option wouldbe inline with the old carpenters adage - "Split the Difference". It may require building new cabane fittings top and bottom. 3) Offset the lower end of the cabanes 1/2" to the inboard, such as your picture indicates. I don't really like this option, because it seems it wouldimpart a bending moment on the lower fitting. I take it this would require a 1/2" joggle in the inboard strap fitting ? If you use the piece of Ash wood tofill the 1/2" outboard difference, I think the Ash should glued into the outboard sides of the cabanes, and be much longer up the cabane, maybe 4 or 5 inches, and blend into the cabane strut. Also, if you go with this option, I thinkyou should use the next thicker size inboard strap fitting, with the joggle in it. The cabanes & fittings should be kept in shear, and with a joggle on one side, and a bushing on the other side, it just doesn't seem like a good shear fitting.4) Build 4 new cabane struts, with the offset built in.5) Build a new center section.6) Build a new fuselage.7) Go get another beer, and sit and look at it for a couple more hours...Chuck G.p.s. Jim, I know these parts were already built when you got them, but, OK, I'm going to say it...This is the reason you hear so often - "Build it to the Plans". Changes have a ripple effect on everything. One inch wider cockpit will not make any difference in comfort.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
not the answer you want to hear buit if it were me I'd either build a new centersection or make new cabanes that are thicker at the bottom and taper up towardsthe top.The latter option would be easiest and with the different types of wood used forlaminations it'd give a really cool look as the thicker laminations on the bottomwere tapered up at the top.. kinda like the look of a prop.or.... maybe put your center section in one of those "wood stretchers" and pullto the desired width ;)DJ ----- Original Message -----
not the answer you want to hear buit if it were me I'd either build a new centersection or make new cabanes that are thicker at the bottom and taper up towardsthe top.The latter option would be easiest and with the different types of wood used forlaminations it'd give a really cool look as the thicker laminations on the bottomwere tapered up at the top.. kinda like the look of a prop.or.... maybe put your center section in one of those "wood stretchers" and pullto the desired width ;)DJ ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Original Posted By: N321TX(at)wmconnect.com
Thanks DJ and Chuck.......I love getting these new ideas!!!....whether I use them or not, this gets me thinkingout of the box.....I like the idea of building new cabanes with the offset built in and also the ideaof making the ash "spacer" taper up 4 or 5 inches....I'm thinking new cabanesis the better of the two.....Thanks guys!And Chuck, that hole in the arch piece is where the arch piece cracked when theplane was ground looped....seems both arches took more stress than they couldhandle.....I've left them on while I build everything else just to keep as muchof "the look" as possible (I'll rebuild the front arch pieces). Having a holethere did turn out nice for the picture though!As I type this I'm implementing option 7 below.....I'll work out the others later....Thanks again guys!jmJim, I've been studying your picture, and I see your dilemma. The picture appearsto be the front left lower cabane strut, with a hardware store bolt (usedfor pre-fit). Why did you cut the end off the wood that forms the arch ? I think the first thing to do, is consider all the possible remedies. Hereis the ones I thought of, in the order of their preference: 1) Slant the top of the cabanes inboard, while keeping the bolts in the horizontalplane - so the wing will still move for & aft. The angle would be maybea quarter of a degree. This was my first thought, but I see you already havethe holes drilled in the cabanes. Although, you could use the next size largerbolt, and file the holes top & bottom, (keeping them round) to maintain ahorizontal hole....aw, scratch that thought... 2) Offset the upper end of the cabane struts outboard 1/4", and the lower endsinboard 1/4", thus keeping the cabane struts vertical. This option would beinline with the old carpenters adage - "Split the Difference". It may requirebuilding new cabane fittings top and bottom. 3) Offset the lower end of the cabanes 1/2" to the inboard, such as your pictureindicates. I don't really like this option, because it seems it would imparta bending moment on the lower fitting. I take it this would require a 1/2"joggle in the inboard strap fitting ? If you use the piece of Ash wood tofill the 1/2" outboard difference, I think the Ash should glued into the outboardsides of the cabanes, and be much longer up the cabane, maybe 4 or 5 inches,and blend into the cabane strut. Also, if you go with this option, I thinkyou should use the next thicker size inboard strap fitting, with the joggle init. The cabanes & fittings should be kept in shear, and with a joggle on oneside, and a bushing on the other side, it just doesn't seem like a good shearfitting. 4) Build 4 new cabane struts, with the offset built in. 5) Build a new center section. 6) Build a new fuselage. 7) Go get another beer, and sit and look at it for a couple more hours... Chuck G. p.s. Jim, I know these parts were already built when you got them, but, OK,I'm going to say it...This is the reason you hear so often - "Build it to thePlans". Changes have a ripple effect on everything. One inch wider cockpit willnot make any difference in comfort.________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks DJ and Chuck.......I love getting these new ideas!!!....whether I use them or not, this gets me thinkingout of the box.....I like the idea of building new cabanes with the offset built in and also the ideaof making the ash "spacer" taper up 4 or 5 inches....I'm thinking new cabanesis the better of the two.....Thanks guys!And Chuck, that hole in the arch piece is where the arch piece cracked when theplane was ground looped....seems both arches took more stress than they couldhandle.....I've left them on while I build everything else just to keep as muchof "the look" as possible (I'll rebuild the front arch pieces). Having a holethere did turn out nice for the picture though!As I type this I'm implementing option 7 below.....I'll work out the others later....Thanks again guys!jmJim, I've been studying your picture, and I see your dilemma. The picture appearsto be the front left lower cabane strut, with a hardware store bolt (usedfor pre-fit). Why did you cut the end off the wood that forms the arch ? I think the first thing to do, is consider all the possible remedies. Hereis the ones I thought of, in the order of their preference: 1) Slant the top of the cabanes inboard, while keeping the bolts in the horizontalplane - so the wing will still move for & aft. The angle would be maybea quarter of a degree. This was my first thought, but I see you already havethe holes drilled in the cabanes. Although, you could use the next size largerbolt, and file the holes top & bottom, (keeping them round) to maintain ahorizontal hole....aw, scratch that thought... 2) Offset the upper end of the cabane struts outboard 1/4", and the lower endsinboard 1/4", thus keeping the cabane struts vertical. This option would beinline with the old carpenters adage - "Split the Difference". It may requirebuilding new cabane fittings top and bottom. 3) Offset the lower end of the cabanes 1/2" to the inboard, such as your pictureindicates. I don't really like this option, because it seems it would imparta bending moment on the lower fitting. I take it this would require a 1/2"joggle in the inboard strap fitting ? If you use the piece of Ash wood tofill the 1/2" outboard difference, I think the Ash should glued into the outboardsides of the cabanes, and be much longer up the cabane, maybe 4 or 5 inches,and blend into the cabane strut. Also, if you go with this option, I thinkyou should use the next thicker size inboard strap fitting, with the joggle init. The cabanes & fittings should be kept in shear, and with a joggle on oneside, and a bushing on the other side, it just doesn't seem like a good shearfitting. 4) Build 4 new cabane struts, with the offset built in. 5) Build a new center section. 6) Build a new fuselage. 7) Go get another beer, and sit and look at it for a couple more hours... Chuck G. p.s. Jim, I know these parts were already built when you got them, but, OK,I'm going to say it...This is the reason you hear so often - "Build it to thePlans". Changes have a ripple effect on everything. One inch wider cockpit willnot make any difference in comfort.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....Chuck should have stated for option 7... "Go get a Guiness Stout and have a Corona chaser...________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:04:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....Chuck should have stated for option 7... "Go get a Guiness Stout and have a Corona chaser...________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:04:57 -0800
Pietenpol-List: Cabane mounting help....
Original Posted By: Mark Blackwell