Pietenpol-List: Spars

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Tue Apr 08, 1997 8:08 am

Original Posted By: Gary McArthur
Aircraft Spruce and Specialty finally delivered on the spars I ordered lastJuly. Haven't completely unwrapped yet but they look good.John________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Tue Apr 08, 1997 11:23 pm

Original Posted By: JGreenlee(at)aol.com
JGreenlee(at)aol.com wrote:> > Aircraft Spruce and Specialty finally delivered on the spars I ordered last> July. Haven't completely unwrapped yet but they look good.> > JohnJohn;Did you price around or sole source. And a question I have wondered since I received my prints, Is the spars 1"x4" dimensional (1x4 rough cut, planed to 3/4 x 3-1/2) or finished 1"x4"? It sure makes a difference in price.Bill________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Apr 09, 1997 2:52 pm

Original Posted By: jkahn(at)picasso.dehavilland.ca (John Kahn)
The plans are always full dimension. The original ships had 1" thick sparsrouted down to an I beam shape.BHP's later ships had 3/4" solid spars not routed.I cannot remember how much I shopped when I originally ordered. It seemslike everyone was pretty competetive. I have heard Wicks has more reliabledelivery.John________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Apr 09, 1997 3:09 pm

Original Posted By: JGreenlee(at)aol.com
I talked to a guy at Spuce and he said they had ashipment arrive last summer that didn't meet spec and they sent back, hence the 6 month delay. They seemto scrounge up batches of mil spec quality wood in justsufficient quantities. It all comes from the NW BC coastand Alaska now.I understand that spars made by laminating 1x1s is actuallystronger and the 1x1 stock is much more readily available.Anybody tried that?Also John, how much does a set of front and rear spars from AS&S cost if I may ask?John KahnBombardier Inc.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Apr 10, 1997 1:16 pm

Original Posted By: Bill Talbert
>These were right at 300 bucks plus about 65 bucks for truck freight.Cheap they ain't....John________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Apr 12, 1997 5:10 pm

Original Posted By: Ted Brousseau
JGreenlee(at)aol.com wrote:> > Aircraft Spruce and Specialty finally delivered on the spars I ordered last> July. Haven't completely unwrapped yet but they look good.> > JohnJohn;Another question, Are the spars planed or rough cut? I agree they are a bit pricey but, this is what you will be hanging in the air by.Bill________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Apr 30, 1997 8:39 am

Original Posted By: JGreenlee(at)aol.com
Did I ever answer you on this? The spars were planed.John________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Sep 12, 1997 1:18 pm

Original Posted By: jkahn(at)picasso.dehavilland.ca (John Kahn)
Have you inspected the boards for compression failures, Greg? I'massuming it's uncertified wood.John________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Sep 12, 1997 2:05 pm

Original Posted By: jkahn(at)picasso.dehavilland.ca (John Kahn)
We just received our spars this week from Beartooth Lumber inWashington.Price was good and we got them a couple of weeks after ordering them.They wouldn't sell a 1x4 3/4 plank so we ordered 1x6 thinking we coulduse the extra inch for the longerons. What we didn't know and Beartoothdidn't tell us was the material is milled to "finished" dimensions. When theplanks arrived they were only 13/16" thick! We decided to keep them anduse the excess from the 6 inch dimension to build up the caps to a fullinch. Longerons will have to be scarfed together from some shortermaterial we have.As for the quality, on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd give them about a 7. A coupleof minor surface blemishes but overall pretty good. At least one plank hasabsolutely 0 grain runout for the entire 16 foot length.Cost was $ 7.50 per linear foot and shipping, by air, from Washington toMinneapolis was $ 100.00 Greg Cardinal________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Jun 28, 1999 10:10 pm

Original Posted By: Mike Bell
Mike,Another good plywood is Baltic birch I can get ithere cheap. Ply wouldn't have to be on both sides all the way to the wing tip this could save yousome weight. There are places on the net that list plywood characteristics if you'll search on the rightword you'll find them. I here you comment on the Scottish Highlandsare you possibly from there ?----- Original Message ----- ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Thu Jul 01, 1999 11:56 am

Original Posted By: Patcoolnet(at)aol.com
Hi GuysHas anyone ever seen or built a Piet wing with type "box" spars ?Luis Lolatalolata(at)sercomtel.com.br www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/1227 ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 02, 1999 9:03 pm

Original Posted By: Gary Gower
I have been planning to do just that. The price of a solidspruce spar along with the additional strength to weight of abuilt up plywood and spruce spar seems to make it a good idea.I'm looking at just matching the strength of the solid spar,which will make it a little lighter and also stiffer.Mike BellColumbia, SClolata on 07/01/99 12:56:17 PMPlease respond to Pietenpol Discussion cc:Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: SparsHi GuysHas anyone ever seen or built a Piet wing with type "box" spars ?Luis Lolatalolata(at)sercomtel.com.brwww.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/1227________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jul 02, 1999 9:25 pm

Original Posted By: Duane
Steve wrote:I plan on building box spars too using Luan Philippine mahogany as thefront and rear skins. I calculate they will save about 18lbs over thesolid spars. What other ideas are you using to save weoght.Steve>>>I have been planning to do just that. The price of a solid>spruce spar along with the additional strength to weight of a>built up plywood and spruce spar seems to make it a good idea.>I'm looking at just matching the strength of the solid spar,>which will make it a little lighter and also stiffer.>>Mike Bell>Columbia, SC>>>lolata on 07/01/99 12:56:17 PM>>Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion >>To: Pietenpol Discussion >cc:>Subject: Re: Spars>>>Hi Guys>>Has anyone ever seen or built a Piet wing with type "box" spars ?>>Luis Lolata>>lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br>>www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/1227>>Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistinemail= vistin(at)juno.com__________________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Jul 04, 1999 5:51 pm

Original Posted By: Mike Bell
I don't have any numbers on phillipine mahogany. Initial plansare for two skins of 1/8 aircraft grade birch plywood and 3/4 x3/4 spruce or fir top and bottom. I haven't had time to work itall through yet. I expect that it can be lightened from that andstill equal or exceed solid spruce. Let me know where you gotthe numbers for the phillipine mahogany from. I've alwaysthought of it as somwhere between balsa and honduras mahogany,but much closer to the balsa end of the spectrum.Mike BellColumbia, SCSteve W on 07/02/99 10:25:46 PMPlease respond to Pietenpol Discussion cc:Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: SparsSteve wrote:I plan on building box spars too using Luan Philippine mahoganyas thefront and rear skins. I calculate they will save about 18lbs overthesolid spars.What other ideas are you using to save weoght.Stevewrites:>>>I have been planning to do just that. The price of a solid>spruce spar along with the additional strength to weight of a>built up plywood and spruce spar seems to make it a good idea.>I'm looking at just matching the strength of the solid spar,>which will make it a little lighter and also stiffer.>>Mike Bell>Columbia, SC>>>lolata on 07/01/99 12:56:17 PM>>Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion >>To: Pietenpol Discussion >cc:>Subject: Re: Spars>>>Hi Guys>>Has anyone ever seen or built a Piet wing with type "box" spars?>>Luis Lolata>>lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br>>www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Runway/1227>>Jes maken "WoodChips" heah in Missippippi!url= http://www2.misnet.com/~vistinemail= vistin(at)juno.com__________________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sun Jul 04, 1999 7:28 pm

Original Posted By:> Steve W
What thickness plywood are you planning for your box spar? I've beenthinking about this route also but would need some more info on splicingthe plywood for the box face and relative strengths. Any info on the webfor designing box spars? Think I'll do some searching, but it will be awhile before I need spars. Wayne Sippola

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Jul 05, 1999 6:17 am

Original Posted By: ToySat(at)aol.com
Has anyone checked out the 6061-T6 aluminum spars on page 178 of the98/99 Aircraft Spruce catalog? Sounds like they could work with Pietribs with some spacers in the rib spar slot, especially if the price of$99 for 204" of spar is correct. Can't get good spruce spars for that. I've been less than thrilled with the poor "aircraft quality" spruce Ihave received for capstrip material, so I'm leaning heavily towardsmetal spars.24 days to Brodhead!Mike ListMike Bell wrote:> > > A step beyond the wooden box is an aluminum spar. That could> probably save 60% over the solid spruce.> > I'll post what I work out and see what others have to say.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Jul 05, 1999 11:49 am

Original Posted By:> Steve W
I won't need them for awhile either. I'm spending four or fivedays a week in Reston, Virginia and commuting home on weekends.The honeydo list usually takes care of my weekends. I'm going tobuild ribs in the apartment in Reston and I'll work out the sparswhile I'm there also. If I remember right (the book is in Restonand I'm in SC right now) splices are supposed to be eight timesthe thickness of the wood, one inch for one-eighth plywood.Stagger the joints on opposites faces so that they don't alignanywhere. The same goes for the top and bottom fillers. Iread the BP used built up spars that were seven strips of 3/4inch spruce with 1/8 inch plywood faces. That certainly isoverkill compared to a solid spruce spar. The hollow box sparwith 1/8 aircraft grade birch plywood and 3/4 inch spruce or firtop and bottom for the box is stronger than solid one inchspruce.A step beyond the wooden box is an aluminum spar. That couldprobably save 60% over the solid spruce.I'll post what I work out and see what others have to say.Mike BellColumbia, SCwayne on 07/04/99 08:28:01 PMPlease respond to Pietenpol Discussion cc:Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Spars What thickness plywood are you planning for your box spar?I've beenthinking about this route also but would need some more info onsplicingthe plywood for the box face and relative strengths. Any info onthe webfor designing box spars? Think I'll do some searching, but itwill be awhile before I need spars. Wayne Sippola

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon Jul 05, 1999 7:03 pm

Original Posted By:> wayne
Hi All!On box spars the plywood webs are handling alot of load in shear -- the topcaps & lower caps are trying to move in differant directions. On somespars the ply is even applied at a 45 degree angle to deal with this.("bias cut"

At the fitting points, full depth blocks are set betweenthe caps. E.F. Bruhn's "Analysis& Design of Airplane Structures" can give you somedesign info. ( my copy is from 1943!)Mike ConklingPretty Prairie, KS

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jul 07, 1999 7:31 am

Original Posted By: Mike Bell
Not in about 5 generations. But the taste for true "whiskey" seems to havestayed in the blood.Thanks for the tip about searching for plywood specs. I spend a lot of time onthe internet and still forget to search there sometimes.Right about needing less material in the spar towards the tip. I hadn't thoughtabout leaving off the plywood altogether. I was also thinking about buildingup an I-beam with plywood. since there are two spars the torsionalcharacteristics of the box are probably not necessary. I'll throw out whatever I come up with as I do it. Probably in the form of an Excel sheet.Mike BellColumbia, SCMaiser(at)adena.byu.edu on 07/06/99 10:08:32 PMPlease respond to piet(at)byu.edu @ INTERNETcc:Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: SparsMike,Another good plywood is Baltic birch I can get ithere cheap. Ply wouldn't have to be on bothsides all the way to the wing tip this could save yousome weight. There are places on the net that listplywood characteristics if you'll search on the rightword you'll find them. I here you comment on the Scottish Highlandsare you possibly from there ?----- Original Message -----________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 28, 2000 8:17 pm

Original Posted By: "Wayne Sippola"
OK, once again about plywood spars. I intend on building an I beam sparof the same dimension as plans with plywood web and fir cap strips. I'vechatted with an engineer about it but not run the numbers. I intend to usetwo layers of 1/4 Baltic birch 5 ply with 12:1 scarfs and joints overlappedby the second layer. The attachment areas will have another two layers togive the full 1" thickness (shaped like a horizontal butterfly to preventstress risers) . The caps will be 1x 3/4 fir with a routed slot for theplywood web to be glued down the middle. West System for glue. 3 piecewing. After I build two spars I'll put on something like 5 or 6 G's worthof weight to confirm the strength, but as each member is stronger thanspruce, I doubt this will be a problem. Total for both wings will be 2sheets of ply (5'x5') and 2 1x6x14' clear fir boards. Not much more weightand much less money than spruce.Comments before I start building??? Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 28, 2000 9:14 pm

Original Posted By: Wayne Sippola
Wayne,There are a couple books that might be helpful for figuring out yourspars -- "Analysis & Design of Airplane Structures - E.F. Bruhn (the earlierthe better - mine is copyright 1943) & "Stress without Tears" (articles fromKitplane) -- both books have sections on wood spar design.The best section for the spar may be a "C" or "Box" section with 3/32" or1/8" ply webs -- the "fun" part is figuring the size of the caps & thereinforcements. You may also need more than a routed slot to glue your webinto the cap -- surface area of the glue joint can be a big factor in thedesign.Mike C.Pretty Prairie, KS----- Original Message -----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed Jun 28, 2000 10:50 pm

Original Posted By: Wayne Sippola
----- Original Message -----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 30, 2000 1:12 pm

Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Hi, GregI am about to make a choice on spars for an Aircamper also.and would like to have a copy of this article. My ribs are all built up and most of the fuselage and feathers complete. I plan to make it a big wheel, Model A powered with tail skid. (I'm an historic purist I guess!!}Thanks Glenn Franks , findlay, Ohiofranks07(at)friendlynet.com> > Wayne and others,> Back in 1961 Paul Best wrote an article in Sport Aviation comparing builtup I-beam spars versus solid spars.> I have scanned this article and can e-mail it to whoever wants it.> It is 6 jpeg images totalling approx. 7megs.> The article was published in April of 1961 with a correction printed inJune of '61.> > Greg Cardinal> > >>> "Wayne Sippola" 06/28 7:17 PM >>>> > OK, once again about plywood spars. I intend on building an Ibeam spar> of the same dimension as plans with plywood web and fir cap strips. I've> chatted with an engineer about it but not run the numbers. I intend touse> two layers of 1/4 Baltic birch 5 ply with 12:1 scarfs and jointsoverlapped> by the second layer. The attachment areas will have another two layers to> give the full 1" thickness (shaped like a horizontal butterfly to prevent> stress risers) . The caps will be 1x 3/4 fir with a routed slot for the> plywood web to be glued down the middle. West System for glue. 3 piece> wing. After I build two spars I'll put on something like 5 or 6 G's worth> of weight to confirm the strength, but as each member is stronger than> spruce, I doubt this will be a problem. Total for both wings will be 2> sheets of ply (5'x5') and 2 1x6x14' clear fir boards. Not much moreweight> and much less money than spruce.> Comments before I start building???> Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 30, 2000 9:51 pm

Original Posted By:> Greg Cardinal
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matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 30, 2000 10:06 pm

Original Posted By:> del magsam
I cheated and just bent the leading edges of the parts over a round bar.The tips are only bent a bit and the potion near the flanges bent down abit over a 1/4". Get all the pieces bent ( took about 15 min per horn )and then clamp the two halves together in a vice, one edge at a time toweld. Given the cutouts, you can bend and weld all the horns in under aday. The welding (gas) went much easier than expected and was probablyone of the easiest parts on the plane to weld. Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg----------

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Fri Jun 30, 2000 10:07 pm

Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet ceiling?>>I know we are the low and slow crowd, but what is the max altitude>people on the list have flown their Piet?>>Also, I've asked a few times but haven't ever heard if someone has>purposefully or accidently put a Piet into a spin. How did it enter>and exit?>>Still building/rebuilding.>Kirk>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 15:36:58 -0700

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 6:27 am

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Greg,,,I would appreciate a copy of that please.My email isskycarl(at)megsinet.netThanksCarl-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 5:07 pm

Original Posted By: Kirk Huizenga
Hi Kirk - One Saturday morning a little while back I decided I would try aclimb and see if I could get to 10,000 feet in G-BUCO. It took 24 minutes inall but I had a bit of a breather at 6,000 feet just to admire the view ofthe English coastline 30 miles away. I can tell you that while you areclimbing to that height in your own home-built, you have time to think aboutall the hundreds of parts you made over the years that have gone into yourmachine, and hope they all stay together! I flew solo with 2/3 fuel, homecarved prop and no mixture control. Empty weight is 750lb. 90hp Continental.The first 1000 feet took 70 seconds and the last 1000 feet four and aquarter minutes. I know she'll go higher but the rule here is you needoxygen to try it. As for spinning, I've never tried it in a Pietenpol and Idon't intend to.Regards to you all - Alan James-----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 6:38 pm

Original Posted By: Richard L Dery

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 8:08 pm

Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib questionHey Dick, Thanks a lot for that keen observation on that spar distance difference. I went and measured mine. It too said 27 3/4 and would you believe, mine is 28 3/8. This paper must expand when it's sent down south. I too would like to know what to do. I have not measured it out for a jig as yet, all I have is a tracing of a full size rib sent with my plans from Mr Don Pietenpol. Corky in La.________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 8:33 pm

Original Posted By: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib questionHey Dick, Here's anotherone to make you scratch your head. After finding the 28 3/8 measurement on my full size tracing I further cheched my plans and here is another quirk; On drawing # 5 " Measurements of Wing Rib Profile" the following dimentions are given from the rear face of the front spar to the front face of the rear spar:1.1251.501.50333554This totals 27.125 The foor is after subtracting the width of the rear spar. I'm certain there is some explanation for these differences.Can someone help?Corky in La________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 8:49 pm

Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib questionCorky and Dick,I found the same thing when I laid out my rib jig. Also the rib members don't necessarily meet the top and bottom capstrips at what appears to be the proper angles. I had to redo my jig a couple of times to ensure that the airfoil shape was true to plans, the spar spacing was 27 3/4" and that the rib members don't butt into each other rather than meet the top and bottom capstrips. Takes a little time to get it right but no big deal. Tom Travis________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 9:03 pm

Original Posted By: Kirk Huizenga
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing rib questionThanks Tom, guess I have beginners jitters.C in La________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:24:29 -0500

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 10:20 pm

Original Posted By: Richard L Dery

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Sat Jul 01, 2000 10:39 pm

Original Posted By: Richard L Dery

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:11 am

Original Posted By: TRichmo9(at)aol.com

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:17 am

Original Posted By: Rick Holland

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon May 16, 2005 4:24 pm

Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: what I really miss at airshows.......

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon May 16, 2005 6:01 pm

Original Posted By:

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon May 16, 2005 6:30 pm

Original Posted By: Galen Hutcheson
;

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:59 pm

Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 18, 2005 1:48 am

Original Posted By: TRichmo9(at)aol.com

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 18, 2005 12:26 pm

Original Posted By:

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 18, 2005 5:31 pm

Original Posted By: Galen Hutcheson
;

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 18, 2005 6:48 pm

Original Posted By: "Peter W Johnson"

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:26 am

Original Posted By: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: SparsIn a message dated 5/16/05 6:31:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, wacopitts(at)yahoo.com writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Galen Hutcheson Dave, I am building box-like spars. They will have1/2" by 1" spruce top and bottom beams with a 1/8"birch plywood sandwich. They will have 1/2" by 1"spruce diagonals and uprights at each rib location(the diagonals will be similar to the pattern used inthe ribs). My spars will be 3/4" wide by 4 1/4" highwhen completed. The will be lighter but should be asstrong as solid routed spars. I have built some testsections and I am very impressed with the strength ofthis type of spar. The three foot center section justallows you to have a larger fuel tank in the upperwing. I see no reason you can't build a 1" widebox-spar. Perhaps you could build a test section andevaluate it for strength.Doc > >> > Guys, I'm getting ready to start my wings and I'm> looking for suggestions.> > My spars are built with a one inch wide opening> per the plans but the> > supplemental plans for the 3 piece wing call for> 3/4" spar material. I see> > no reason to not use 1" material except the price.> Aircraft Spruce wants> > about 600.00 for the spar material and before I> fork out that kind of > > money> > I wanted to see if that's the best way to go. It> seems like a shame to pay> > for all that spruce and then route almost half of> it out. Has anyone done > > a> > laminated plywood spar? Seems like it would> certainly be strong enough.> > Also, is there any advantage/disadvantage to> widening the center section?> > Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.> > Thanks, Dave> > ---> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system> (http://www.grisoft.com).> > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 - Release> Date: 2/14/2005> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > >> browse> Subscriptions page,> FAQ,>> > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail i copyed the plans and they look pretty good they will cost you 11 dollars if you want a set ,my address is rt2 box 263 cleveland oklahoma 74020________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:31 am

Original Posted By: "Dave Esslinger"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: plans if anyone wants a set of the plans i have and i havent e mailed you they are 11 dollars. ________________________________________________________________________________

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 25, 2005 11:45 am

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Doc, Thanks for the info. I'm leaning toward the built up spar youdescribed. I know that's how they build them in the Quickie's. How did youdo your testing?Dave -----Original Message-----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 25, 2005 12:53 pm

Original Posted By: TRichmo9(at)aol.com
Please explain how you can legally sell a set of Piet plans for $11.00 ----- Original Message -----

matronics · Post by **matronics** » Wed May 25, 2005 2:28 pm

Original Posted By: _TRichmo9(at)aol.com_ (mailto:TRichmo9(at)aol.com)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plans In a message dated 5/25/05 1:35:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dknoll(at)cox.net writes:Please explain how you can legally sell a set of Piet plans for $11.00----- Original Message -----