Original Posted By: "Dick Navratil"
Question: If you were buying wood to build ribs with, where would you go to getit? I didn't want to buy Sitka Spruce boards and cut them with my tablesaw.I'm interested in finding out if I bought the wrong type of wood.I didn't buy a lot but in talking with the establishment I bought it from, I wasVERY surprised to hear their last statement on dealing with this problem. (Inthe end, if I do have to eat the wood I bought I'm only out $300 and much bettereducated, perhaps worth the $300)--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Wood Sources
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
For my first project I bought from Aircraft Spruce. Wood was great quality, but took a long time to get delivered. Second project, I tried cutting my own, that didn't work too well, so I ordered from Wicks. Great quality, quick delivery and about the same price as ACS.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
For my first project I bought from Aircraft Spruce. Wood was great quality, but took a long time to get delivered. Second project, I tried cutting my own, that didn't work too well, so I ordered from Wicks. Great quality, quick delivery and about the same price as ACS.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
Thanks so much Ben for the info. That is exactly what I was looking for. Say, hows life in Mims? Former Cocoa Beach area guy here. Miss the south. Wouldenjoy meeting and checking out your plane on my next trip down..BrianRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Thanks so much Ben for the info. That is exactly what I was looking for. Say, hows life in Mims? Former Cocoa Beach area guy here. Miss the south. Wouldenjoy meeting and checking out your plane on my next trip down..BrianRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Catdesign"
I bought 96 pieces of capstrip from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty to do the ribs.I was concerned with the grain slope and the overall crappy quality of theorder (some pieces missing CHUNKS!). I bought Advisory Circular 43.13 (alsoa download from FAA which I recommend to anyone building a wooden plane) and gotthe FAA definition of airworthy wood (grain slope not to exceed 1 inch overa 15 inch length on ALL FOUR FACES). My order was plagued with knots, divots,and grain issues. I called them, quoting 43.13, and they said they would replaceany bad wood, but would have to check with Mr. Irwin (president???) forauthorization. This was the last thing I heard from them..."The only wood they sell specifically for structural use is spar material." Somy assumption is that the capstrip, and all the wood they sell (non-spar) isfor non-structural (decorative?) use. Since I'm new to this (ribs are my firstpart of this project) I'm wondering how everybody else gets aircraft grade lumber.What is capstrip anyway? Am I misinterpreting something here?--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I bought 96 pieces of capstrip from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty to do the ribs.I was concerned with the grain slope and the overall crappy quality of theorder (some pieces missing CHUNKS!). I bought Advisory Circular 43.13 (alsoa download from FAA which I recommend to anyone building a wooden plane) and gotthe FAA definition of airworthy wood (grain slope not to exceed 1 inch overa 15 inch length on ALL FOUR FACES). My order was plagued with knots, divots,and grain issues. I called them, quoting 43.13, and they said they would replaceany bad wood, but would have to check with Mr. Irwin (president???) forauthorization. This was the last thing I heard from them..."The only wood they sell specifically for structural use is spar material." Somy assumption is that the capstrip, and all the wood they sell (non-spar) isfor non-structural (decorative?) use. Since I'm new to this (ribs are my firstpart of this project) I'm wondering how everybody else gets aircraft grade lumber.What is capstrip anyway? Am I misinterpreting something here?--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
I got my wing rib stock from wicks, good wood, good service, good price. They were cheaper on steel last time I ordered too. Fuselage wood came form the guy in Canada (Gene Peters), but I think he retired. This is the second time someone on the list had problems with Aircraft Spruce. Hope its not a trend.Chris TracySacramento, Ca----- Original Message -----
I got my wing rib stock from wicks, good wood, good service, good price. They were cheaper on steel last time I ordered too. Fuselage wood came form the guy in Canada (Gene Peters), but I think he retired. This is the second time someone on the list had problems with Aircraft Spruce. Hope its not a trend.Chris TracySacramento, Ca----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Pietenpol-List: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: Lou Wither
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft woodI bought my spruce from McCormack's in Madison, WI -- very reasonable and I live only two hours away. What I like is that you can pick out your own wood and so, obviously, you know exactly what you're hauling home. Had to cut it myself into strips for the longerons and uprights for fuselage, but with a goodsharp table saw blade and two of my boys (16 and 19)to help feed it through thesaw (one at each end of the 14-foot lengths and me at the saw-- I didn't want them losing a finger if something slipped) it was relatively easy to cut the longerons out. As for capstrips, I bought a complete set of ribs from the late Charlie Rubeck -- that's "cheating" a little, but once my Piet flies, we'll be literallyand figuratively flying on Charlie's "wings" -- and I can't think of a better way to honor his memory! Today I plan to finish up the vertical stab and then glue up the rudder. With the rudder finished all the tailpieces will be finished -- then I can assemble the landing gear and she'll be on wheels! Last weekend was spent, mostly,finishing up the painting and installing chair rail in the kitchen. That compound, laser-guided miter saw that my wife bought me for Christmas a coupleyears ago-- and which I claimed was for household jobs, heh-heh-heh - sure came in handy for that chair rail! All the corners came out so nice -- my wife thinks I'm a stinking genius! And you know, some of that fancy chair rail would look great around the perimeter of my Piet's cockpit...hmmmm.... Just kidding! Only 90-some days to Brodhead!Happy building/flying everyone!Fred B.La Crosse, WI________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aircraft woodI bought my spruce from McCormack's in Madison, WI -- very reasonable and I live only two hours away. What I like is that you can pick out your own wood and so, obviously, you know exactly what you're hauling home. Had to cut it myself into strips for the longerons and uprights for fuselage, but with a goodsharp table saw blade and two of my boys (16 and 19)to help feed it through thesaw (one at each end of the 14-foot lengths and me at the saw-- I didn't want them losing a finger if something slipped) it was relatively easy to cut the longerons out. As for capstrips, I bought a complete set of ribs from the late Charlie Rubeck -- that's "cheating" a little, but once my Piet flies, we'll be literallyand figuratively flying on Charlie's "wings" -- and I can't think of a better way to honor his memory! Today I plan to finish up the vertical stab and then glue up the rudder. With the rudder finished all the tailpieces will be finished -- then I can assemble the landing gear and she'll be on wheels! Last weekend was spent, mostly,finishing up the painting and installing chair rail in the kitchen. That compound, laser-guided miter saw that my wife bought me for Christmas a coupleyears ago-- and which I claimed was for household jobs, heh-heh-heh - sure came in handy for that chair rail! All the corners came out so nice -- my wife thinks I'm a stinking genius! And you know, some of that fancy chair rail would look great around the perimeter of my Piet's cockpit...hmmmm.... Just kidding! Only 90-some days to Brodhead!Happy building/flying everyone!Fred B.La Crosse, WI________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
A Pober Jr. Ace (wood wing) builder in my area ordered his wood from Wicks andhas been happy what everything he's received. I'm still working this out withAS&S. I'm not the type that goes out to smear people but thought that othernew builders sizing up their sources for lumber might want to know what they'regetting into.--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
A Pober Jr. Ace (wood wing) builder in my area ordered his wood from Wicks andhas been happy what everything he's received. I'm still working this out withAS&S. I'm not the type that goes out to smear people but thought that othernew builders sizing up their sources for lumber might want to know what they'regetting into.--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
GlennI have a very good quality table saw, and I still found it very difficult to cut those small dimension pieces accurately. For as nice of a job that Wicks does, I don't think it's worth the savings.A couple of other comments. Aircraft Spruce got it's name because thats what they started out doing years ago and expanded from there.Certified Aircraft Grade of course is just the basic 8 grains per inch and the grain to run in accordance with FAA specs. They spell out the specs on page 53 of their cataloug. I'm sure I'm not saying anything new here.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
GlennI have a very good quality table saw, and I still found it very difficult to cut those small dimension pieces accurately. For as nice of a job that Wicks does, I don't think it's worth the savings.A couple of other comments. Aircraft Spruce got it's name because thats what they started out doing years ago and expanded from there.Certified Aircraft Grade of course is just the basic 8 grains per inch and the grain to run in accordance with FAA specs. They spell out the specs on page 53 of their cataloug. I'm sure I'm not saying anything new here.Dick N.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: slowbilder(at)comcast.net
BarryThanks for the Brodhead dates. I'm Bob Humbert in Battle Creek Michigan. I havea Piet project that I started in 1969. It is finally (hopefully) in the finalstages of completion. Power is C-75-12. It is now out of the garage andin a hanger in Marshall Michigan, with the wings on, engine mounted, etc. Thereare a few issues to resolve with the engine then it should be ready for inspection.I was afraid that Brodhead would be that weekend. That weekend I will be workingas an official at a national hot air balloon championship in South Carolinathat weekend. That event has conflicted with Brodhead for a number of years.I will probably have a chance to visit the Brodhead airport again in June whileI am working a hot air balloon event in Monroe WI. I have worked the balloonevent in Monroe in June for a number of years now and have taken the opportunityto have a look at the planes and projects at Brodhead while I'm there.regards!BarryThanks for the Brodhead dates. I'm Bob Humbert in Battle Creek Michigan. I havea Piet project that I started in 1969. It is finally (hopefully) in the finalstages of completion. Power is C-75-12. It is now out of the garage and in ahanger in Marshall Michigan, with the wings on, engine mounted, etc. There area few issues to resolve with the engine then it should be ready for inspection.I was afraid that Brodhead would be that weekend. That weekendI will be workingas an official at a national hot air balloon championship in South Carolina thatweekend. That event has conflicted with Brodhead for a number of years. Iwill probably have a chance to visit the Brodhead airport again in June whileI am working a hot air balloon event in Monroe WI. I have worked the balloon eventinMonroein June for a number of years now and have taken the opportunityto have a look at the planes and projects at Brodhead while I'm there.regards!________________________________________________________________________________
BarryThanks for the Brodhead dates. I'm Bob Humbert in Battle Creek Michigan. I havea Piet project that I started in 1969. It is finally (hopefully) in the finalstages of completion. Power is C-75-12. It is now out of the garage andin a hanger in Marshall Michigan, with the wings on, engine mounted, etc. Thereare a few issues to resolve with the engine then it should be ready for inspection.I was afraid that Brodhead would be that weekend. That weekend I will be workingas an official at a national hot air balloon championship in South Carolinathat weekend. That event has conflicted with Brodhead for a number of years.I will probably have a chance to visit the Brodhead airport again in June whileI am working a hot air balloon event in Monroe WI. I have worked the balloonevent in Monroe in June for a number of years now and have taken the opportunityto have a look at the planes and projects at Brodhead while I'm there.regards!BarryThanks for the Brodhead dates. I'm Bob Humbert in Battle Creek Michigan. I havea Piet project that I started in 1969. It is finally (hopefully) in the finalstages of completion. Power is C-75-12. It is now out of the garage and in ahanger in Marshall Michigan, with the wings on, engine mounted, etc. There area few issues to resolve with the engine then it should be ready for inspection.I was afraid that Brodhead would be that weekend. That weekendI will be workingas an official at a national hot air balloon championship in South Carolina thatweekend. That event has conflicted with Brodhead for a number of years. Iwill probably have a chance to visit the Brodhead airport again in June whileI am working a hot air balloon event in Monroe WI. I have worked the balloon eventinMonroein June for a number of years now and have taken the opportunityto have a look at the planes and projects at Brodhead while I'm there.regards!________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
Oscar,I use 6.00 x 6 - 4 ply Airtrac tires, 28 Psi "cold inside hangar"Hot in the sun perhaps it reaches 30, and on a cold morning perhaps 25, butI never measured that just my logic.I did notice at lower pressures it is harder to roll.At 28 Psi it rolls effortlessly on concrete.Hans "Oscar Zuniga" To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: tire pressure 04/17/2006 11:50 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com For you folks NOT running skinny tires... 41CC has 6.00x6 tires... whatkindof pressure do you run in them? The tire charts are all over the place,depending on number of plies and so forth, but looks like for a grossweightin the 1100 lb. range, something like 25-30 psi. Sounds high to me whichiswhy I'm asking the question.So, who is running what tire pressure in non-motorcycle tires, Cub stylegear? Thanks!Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood SourcesDate: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:07:17 -0400
Oscar,I use 6.00 x 6 - 4 ply Airtrac tires, 28 Psi "cold inside hangar"Hot in the sun perhaps it reaches 30, and on a cold morning perhaps 25, butI never measured that just my logic.I did notice at lower pressures it is harder to roll.At 28 Psi it rolls effortlessly on concrete.Hans "Oscar Zuniga" To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: tire pressure 04/17/2006 11:50 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com For you folks NOT running skinny tires... 41CC has 6.00x6 tires... whatkindof pressure do you run in them? The tire charts are all over the place,depending on number of plies and so forth, but looks like for a grossweightin the 1100 lb. range, something like 25-30 psi. Sounds high to me whichiswhy I'm asking the question.So, who is running what tire pressure in non-motorcycle tires, Cub stylegear? Thanks!Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood SourcesDate: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:07:17 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: Michael Nadeau
Great response. You answered my question. I thought about the vertical grainand ring count problem and started to realize that if the grain is vertical youCAN'T have rings showing on the side. I guess I was looking so hard I couldn'tsee what was right in front of me. The section I was reading, entitled "CrossGrain" applies to cross grain, duh. I wasn't familiar with the terms crossgrain and vertical grain when I first read 43.13, although I know about theproperties associated with each. Thanks for replying with an appropriate restatementof the obvious. I kind of came to the realization that vertical grainwould be the better choice of grains and had made up my mind to disregard the4 face rule for inspecting my wood if grain is vertical. ...I still have 22pieces with missing chunks and knots but at least I can rest assured that mydecision to use stuff with no grain lines on the side was the right one. Well,it's all about learning and this was a good lesson. Thanks!!!!--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Great response. You answered my question. I thought about the vertical grainand ring count problem and started to realize that if the grain is vertical youCAN'T have rings showing on the side. I guess I was looking so hard I couldn'tsee what was right in front of me. The section I was reading, entitled "CrossGrain" applies to cross grain, duh. I wasn't familiar with the terms crossgrain and vertical grain when I first read 43.13, although I know about theproperties associated with each. Thanks for replying with an appropriate restatementof the obvious. I kind of came to the realization that vertical grainwould be the better choice of grains and had made up my mind to disregard the4 face rule for inspecting my wood if grain is vertical. ...I still have 22pieces with missing chunks and knots but at least I can rest assured that mydecision to use stuff with no grain lines on the side was the right one. Well,it's all about learning and this was a good lesson. Thanks!!!!--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Hi,I'm just starting my project and bought enough rough cut wood for ribs and tail. I tried some sample cuts on my table saw but didn't like the results. I need a joiner to square up the sides which I'll get when Sam sends me my refund check. (Just like my Dad always says). To cut up the cap strips use this trick with your table saw. Use two blades with a 1/2 or 1/4 spacer in between. It cuts all the pieces the same. Be sure to use a push stick!Mike NadeauOn Apr 17, 2006, at 12:54 PM|Apr 17, 2006, Glenn Thomas wrote:> >> Great response. You answered my question. I thought about the > vertical grain and ring count problem and started to realize that > if the grain is vertical you CAN'T have rings showing on the side. > I guess I was looking so hard I couldn't see what was right in > front of me. The section I was reading, entitled "Cross Grain" > applies to cross grain, duh. I wasn't familiar with the terms > cross grain and vertical grain when I first read 43.13, although I > know about the properties associated with each. Thanks for > replying with an appropriate restatement of the obvious. I kind of > came to the realization that vertical grain would be the better > choice of grains and had made up my mind to disregard the 4 face > rule for inspecting my wood if grain is vertical. ...I still have > 22 pieces with missing chunks and knots but at least I can rest > assured that my decision to use stuff with no grain lines on the > side was the right one. Well, it's all about learning and this was > a good lesso!> n.>> Thanks!!!!>> --------> Glenn Thomas> N?????> http://www.flyingwood.com>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hi,I'm just starting my project and bought enough rough cut wood for ribs and tail. I tried some sample cuts on my table saw but didn't like the results. I need a joiner to square up the sides which I'll get when Sam sends me my refund check. (Just like my Dad always says). To cut up the cap strips use this trick with your table saw. Use two blades with a 1/2 or 1/4 spacer in between. It cuts all the pieces the same. Be sure to use a push stick!Mike NadeauOn Apr 17, 2006, at 12:54 PM|Apr 17, 2006, Glenn Thomas wrote:> >> Great response. You answered my question. I thought about the > vertical grain and ring count problem and started to realize that > if the grain is vertical you CAN'T have rings showing on the side. > I guess I was looking so hard I couldn't see what was right in > front of me. The section I was reading, entitled "Cross Grain" > applies to cross grain, duh. I wasn't familiar with the terms > cross grain and vertical grain when I first read 43.13, although I > know about the properties associated with each. Thanks for > replying with an appropriate restatement of the obvious. I kind of > came to the realization that vertical grain would be the better > choice of grains and had made up my mind to disregard the 4 face > rule for inspecting my wood if grain is vertical. ...I still have > 22 pieces with missing chunks and knots but at least I can rest > assured that my decision to use stuff with no grain lines on the > side was the right one. Well, it's all about learning and this was > a good lesso!> n.>> Thanks!!!!>> --------> Glenn Thomas> N?????> http://www.flyingwood.com>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Sources
Original Posted By: "Michael Nadeau"
you need to use multiple feather boards, a good sharp 60 tooth thin kerf saw blade, cost about $50 or more, and a splitter. Run the wood through it at a constant feed rate. It this doesn't work then perhaps the arbor is not tracking strait and/or you have to much vibration and/or your fence is not aligned to the blade.Chris TracySacramento, Ca----- Original Message -----
you need to use multiple feather boards, a good sharp 60 tooth thin kerf saw blade, cost about $50 or more, and a splitter. Run the wood through it at a constant feed rate. It this doesn't work then perhaps the arbor is not tracking strait and/or you have to much vibration and/or your fence is not aligned to the blade.Chris TracySacramento, Ca----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Alaska Pietenpol project begins again...
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mark,I spoke with the FAA local DAR today. And he thinks that the Pientenpolcould be registered as an ELSA, but he also said that a Sport Pilot can flyany aircraft that fits the category less than 1320 lbs.etc. I can use it forSport Pilot instruction, and can get signed off for night flights, use onskis, floats etc. as needed as an endorsement for SP. He is not sure howthis would affect a normal CFI. I am looking into becoming a SP CFI so thiscould work.RS-----Original Message-----
Mark,I spoke with the FAA local DAR today. And he thinks that the Pientenpolcould be registered as an ELSA, but he also said that a Sport Pilot can flyany aircraft that fits the category less than 1320 lbs.etc. I can use it forSport Pilot instruction, and can get signed off for night flights, use onskis, floats etc. as needed as an endorsement for SP. He is not sure howthis would affect a normal CFI. I am looking into becoming a SP CFI so thiscould work.RS-----Original Message-----