Original Posted By: "Bill Rayfield"
To:pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboardHiI have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet started building.It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. I would guess around mid 50's. Assuming that I would guess only a portion are up on Cad. I'm 59CAD would be great for documenting patterns such as the eyebrow currently in cardboard. The eyebrow question will surface again in a year or so but the patterns might not. If we had a cad file they could be reproduced again and again. These files could live on the Matronics site to be accessed by all.I have seen mention of some of people putting the Piet into CAD perhaps somebody would document the pieces that we all seem to need every once in a while. It will take some time but we could build a good library of important bits.Interested to hear your thoughts.Steve in Maine_________________________________________________________________The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=n ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboardDate: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 10:10:55 -0500
Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: "Bill Weir"
HiI have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet started building.It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. I would guess around mid 50's. Assuming that I would guess only a portion are up on Cad. I'm 59CAD would be great for documenting patterns such as the eyebrow currently in cardboard. The eyebrow question will surface again in a year or so but the patterns might not. If we had a cad file they could be reproduced again and again. These files could live on the Matronics site to be accessed by all.I have seen mention of some of people putting the Piet into CAD perhaps somebody would document the pieces that we all seem to need every once in a while. It will take some time but we could build a good library of important bits.Interested to hear your thoughts.Steve in Maine_________________________________________________________________The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=n ... __________
HiI have been on the list for about a year gathering info but not yet started building.It would be intersting to know the average age of the people on the list. I would guess around mid 50's. Assuming that I would guess only a portion are up on Cad. I'm 59CAD would be great for documenting patterns such as the eyebrow currently in cardboard. The eyebrow question will surface again in a year or so but the patterns might not. If we had a cad file they could be reproduced again and again. These files could live on the Matronics site to be accessed by all.I have seen mention of some of people putting the Piet into CAD perhaps somebody would document the pieces that we all seem to need every once in a while. It will take some time but we could build a good library of important bits.Interested to hear your thoughts.Steve in Maine_________________________________________________________________The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the scoop. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=n ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: "Steve Glass"
Hi, john here age 55 builder wanna be! Got many of the essentials: prints, desire,love of flying and the low and slow idea of open cockpit. Still lacking fundimentalelements: place to build, tools, time and skill. The more I read the lessconfidence I have. I am better with wrenches and metal than I am with woodand glue.I have been hot for the piet since I learned about them and saw one. So its beena few years! The desire has not diminished, I have chased a few projects tobuy with no success. Always something to prevent the deal! I have a cad program, don't know how to use it efficiently to create laser cutdrawings for my metal parts, but have access to the metal and resources to getit cut.That's my story and I am sticking to it!JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message-----
Hi, john here age 55 builder wanna be! Got many of the essentials: prints, desire,love of flying and the low and slow idea of open cockpit. Still lacking fundimentalelements: place to build, tools, time and skill. The more I read the lessconfidence I have. I am better with wrenches and metal than I am with woodand glue.I have been hot for the piet since I learned about them and saw one. So its beena few years! The desire has not diminished, I have chased a few projects tobuy with no success. Always something to prevent the deal! I have a cad program, don't know how to use it efficiently to create laser cutdrawings for my metal parts, but have access to the metal and resources to getit cut.That's my story and I am sticking to it!JohnSent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Bob here. Like to think of myself as 35 (Hexadecimal). I've got thousandsof hours drivin' tube, though mostly electrical. I can do some 2D inAutoCAD.-----Original Message-----
Bob here. Like to think of myself as 35 (Hexadecimal). I've got thousandsof hours drivin' tube, though mostly electrical. I can do some 2D inAutoCAD.-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: "Rick Holland"
Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: shad bell
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboardJohn,You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over. Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you willnever get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few sticks ofspruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of late. Here'ssome more---GET STARTED! Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:19:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboardJohn,You guys talking about these CAD drawings are making my eyes glaze over. Stop with the nonsence and just start making some ribs. At this rate you willnever get going! You need to start with what you CAN do. Nobody needs any "place to build" to make a rib jig and start producing ribs. A few sticks ofspruce and a hand saw and glue are all you need. There has been a lot of talk about tough love and kicks-in-the-butt's on this site as of late. Here'ssome more---GET STARTED! Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:19:21 -0800 (PST)
RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Dan,I agree with you.I'm an engineer and know AutoCAD and thought about redrawing the plans butasked "why?" and dropped the idea quick smart.The original drawings are all you need plus some help from this pool ofpractical knowledge.I second your motion....just get building. I know I am!Having said that, I will do drawings for the metal fittings, under cart andany to help get the geometry right.JohnW -----Original Message-----
Dan,I agree with you.I'm an engineer and know AutoCAD and thought about redrawing the plans butasked "why?" and dropped the idea quick smart.The original drawings are all you need plus some help from this pool ofpractical knowledge.I second your motion....just get building. I know I am!Having said that, I will do drawings for the metal fittings, under cart andany to help get the geometry right.JohnW -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
Dan's right. I've got a rib building process going in an 8' x 12' shed. In thatsmall space I have a table saw, 2 belt sanders a drill press, bandsaw, scrollsaw, grinder and a router table ...and that's just the bench tools. I gotthe Tony Bingelis books and he gives some good tips on optimizing space. I gotto where I knew if I continued "waiting for the day" it probably wouldn't comeso I did what I had to and I feel like I've got plenty of room. When I wrapup the ribs soon I'll juggle things around so I can do the tail feathers. There'shidden advantages to small workspaces, they're easier (cheaper) to heat.Oh yeah, there's a kerosene heater in there too. If you really want to buildthis thing, just do it. You won't regret it! Most interesting and fun thingI've ever done.Decided to build it on 42nd birthday, completed first rib last April or May andjust turned 43 a few months ago. Married 22 years with a kid in college. Ona budget of about $2000 a year this is not something anybody with the interestcouldn't learn to do or afford. Go for it!--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:03:19 -0800
Dan's right. I've got a rib building process going in an 8' x 12' shed. In thatsmall space I have a table saw, 2 belt sanders a drill press, bandsaw, scrollsaw, grinder and a router table ...and that's just the bench tools. I gotthe Tony Bingelis books and he gives some good tips on optimizing space. I gotto where I knew if I continued "waiting for the day" it probably wouldn't comeso I did what I had to and I feel like I've got plenty of room. When I wrapup the ribs soon I'll juggle things around so I can do the tail feathers. There'shidden advantages to small workspaces, they're easier (cheaper) to heat.Oh yeah, there's a kerosene heater in there too. If you really want to buildthis thing, just do it. You won't regret it! Most interesting and fun thingI've ever done.Decided to build it on 42nd birthday, completed first rib last April or May andjust turned 43 a few months ago. Married 22 years with a kid in college. Ona budget of about $2000 a year this is not something anybody with the interestcouldn't learn to do or afford. Go for it!--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:03:19 -0800
RE: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I hear you. If you are building one plane it's no too productive. But inthe past I've found a lot of dimensional errors and fixed them by convertingfrom paper to CAD because you draw to scale. You can also resolve manyambiguities as well because you have a fully detailed "model". But it wouldonly be worth doing if the plans were shared with new builders.Bob -----Original Message-----
I hear you. If you are building one plane it's no too productive. But inthe past I've found a lot of dimensional errors and fixed them by convertingfrom paper to CAD because you draw to scale. You can also resolve manyambiguities as well because you have a fully detailed "model". But it wouldonly be worth doing if the plans were shared with new builders.Bob -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: "TJ"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Securing plane and J3 eyebrowsRick,Program I use is Visio 2000, it is a simple draft program.By no means as good and versatile as AutoCAD but cheap and simple to use.Hans________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Securing plane and J3 eyebrowsRick,Program I use is Visio 2000, it is a simple draft program.By no means as good and versatile as AutoCAD but cheap and simple to use.Hans________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CAD versus cardboard
Re: Pietenpol-List: CAD versus cardboard
Original Posted By: "Steve Glass"
Early on I drew up all the fittings in CAD and would advise against doing this. The fittings I have tried to make based on the CAD drawings are not always correct. Accurate to the plans yes but not correct for the job they are intended to do. Sometimes the holes are a bit off and sometimes the size of the fitting is a bit small. Plus you will want to lengthen the fittings in a few places to access the bolt heads. For instance, take a look at the front tailwheel mounting fitting, the one with the 3 fingers on it. Notice how the bolt holes for mounting it to the fuselage interfere with each other? If you were to blindly follow the plans you would be making these fittings again, hopefully before you drilled your holes in the lower longeron. Sorry, don't ask for the files because I think releasing them into the world would give a false sense of accuracy that I don't want to promote.One thing you will find as you build is the plans turn out to be better then you thought. They may look poor at first glance but after a while you start to get in the groove and they turn out to be just fine. You soon realize that you worry about some dimensions but others are whatever length is required to fit YOUR particular assembly. The best approach is to get the idea from the plans then fine tune the location and dimensions to make the part fit your assembly correctly and serve the intended purpose. The important thing is to make a strong well built plane. Don't waste your time trying to build to the exact 1/64th because that's what the plans said it had to be.By the way I'm now 39. Was 33 when I started. Probably be 45 when done :-(Chris TracySacramento, CaWebsite at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com----- Original Message -----
Early on I drew up all the fittings in CAD and would advise against doing this. The fittings I have tried to make based on the CAD drawings are not always correct. Accurate to the plans yes but not correct for the job they are intended to do. Sometimes the holes are a bit off and sometimes the size of the fitting is a bit small. Plus you will want to lengthen the fittings in a few places to access the bolt heads. For instance, take a look at the front tailwheel mounting fitting, the one with the 3 fingers on it. Notice how the bolt holes for mounting it to the fuselage interfere with each other? If you were to blindly follow the plans you would be making these fittings again, hopefully before you drilled your holes in the lower longeron. Sorry, don't ask for the files because I think releasing them into the world would give a false sense of accuracy that I don't want to promote.One thing you will find as you build is the plans turn out to be better then you thought. They may look poor at first glance but after a while you start to get in the groove and they turn out to be just fine. You soon realize that you worry about some dimensions but others are whatever length is required to fit YOUR particular assembly. The best approach is to get the idea from the plans then fine tune the location and dimensions to make the part fit your assembly correctly and serve the intended purpose. The important thing is to make a strong well built plane. Don't waste your time trying to build to the exact 1/64th because that's what the plans said it had to be.By the way I'm now 39. Was 33 when I started. Probably be 45 when done :-(Chris TracySacramento, CaWebsite at http://www.Westcoastpiet.com----- Original Message -----