Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
A while back a fellow in my EAA chapter approached me warning of the dangers ofthe Pietenpol, notably that the cockpit MUST be wider than plans because thereisn't enough room between your legs to get full control of the ailerons. Iasked the list about this and others didn't find this to be a problem. If I stickwith the plans (like I am planning to do) and actually do have this problem,could I replace the aileron horns with shorter a shorter version allowingme more control over the ailerons with the same amount of stick travel? ...ordoes the force required to move them increase because of the loss of leverageand thus creating another undesirable characteristic?--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Re: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: "walt evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb QuestionGlen,Go back and take a look at the diameter of the guy's legs that told you they would get in the way. If they looked like tree trunks, ya think maybe that could have anything to do with it? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:09:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb QuestionGlen,Go back and take a look at the diameter of the guy's legs that told you they would get in the way. If they looked like tree trunks, ya think maybe that could have anything to do with it? Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:09:08 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By:
As a person who only weighs 150 lbs., maybe my opinion doesn't count. However, I don't think there is any problem with getting all the aileron (stick) travel you need in a stock width Piet unless you have large size thighs. Try saying that five times, real fast!Reminds me of what our daughter told us about the car that had us so worried when we got back from our vacation. "The brakes don't work! The pedal won't go all the way to the floor! It's dangerous to drive!". Floor mat was bunched up under the brake pedal. Car was just fine.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?produc ... __________
As a person who only weighs 150 lbs., maybe my opinion doesn't count. However, I don't think there is any problem with getting all the aileron (stick) travel you need in a stock width Piet unless you have large size thighs. Try saying that five times, real fast!Reminds me of what our daughter told us about the car that had us so worried when we got back from our vacation. "The brakes don't work! The pedal won't go all the way to the floor! It's dangerous to drive!". Floor mat was bunched up under the brake pedal. Car was just fine.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?produc ... __________
> Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Unless your planning on doing arobatics with the Piet ,I can't see a problem.Of coarse if you are planning on using it for that purpose,let me know how you make out.I once knew a guy who was dumb enough to do a hammer role with a Lazair ultralight while the A frame was being held together with duck tape,crazy baby!>From: "Oscar Zuniga" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question>Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:07:49 -0600>>>>As a person who only weighs 150 lbs., maybe my opinion doesn't count. >However, I don't think there is any problem with getting all the aileron >(stick) travel you need in a stock width Piet unless you have large size >thighs. Try saying that five times, real fast!>>Reminds me of what our daughter told us about the car that had us so >worried when we got back from our vacation. "The brakes don't work! The >pedal won't go all the way to the floor! It's dangerous to drive!". Floor >mat was bunched up under the brake pedal. Car was just fine.>>Oscar Zuniga>San Antonio, TX>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>>_________________________________________________________________>Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. >Intro*Terms >https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?produc ... __________
Unless your planning on doing arobatics with the Piet ,I can't see a problem.Of coarse if you are planning on using it for that purpose,let me know how you make out.I once knew a guy who was dumb enough to do a hammer role with a Lazair ultralight while the A frame was being held together with duck tape,crazy baby!>From: "Oscar Zuniga" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question>Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:07:49 -0600>>>>As a person who only weighs 150 lbs., maybe my opinion doesn't count. >However, I don't think there is any problem with getting all the aileron >(stick) travel you need in a stock width Piet unless you have large size >thighs. Try saying that five times, real fast!>>Reminds me of what our daughter told us about the car that had us so >worried when we got back from our vacation. "The brakes don't work! The >pedal won't go all the way to the floor! It's dangerous to drive!". Floor >mat was bunched up under the brake pedal. Car was just fine.>>Oscar Zuniga>San Antonio, TX>mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>>_________________________________________________________________>Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. >Intro*Terms >https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?produc ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb QuestionGlen,There is no such thing as a dumb question.There is NO problem with the plans width fuselage, unless like Dan mentioned, your legs are as big as tree trunks. Mine is a Short Fuselage, plans width. I am 6' tall, and about 210 lbs, but my legs are Not as big as tree trunks, however, my legs do serve well as the aileron stops. In about 300 hrs flight time, I have Never even came close to having the stick buried into either leg.Don't even consider changing the length of the aileron horns...the controls function very well the way they are.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Possibly (Probably) Dumb QuestionGlen,There is no such thing as a dumb question.There is NO problem with the plans width fuselage, unless like Dan mentioned, your legs are as big as tree trunks. Mine is a Short Fuselage, plans width. I am 6' tall, and about 210 lbs, but my legs are Not as big as tree trunks, however, my legs do serve well as the aileron stops. In about 300 hrs flight time, I have Never even came close to having the stick buried into either leg.Don't even consider changing the length of the aileron horns...the controls function very well the way they are.Chuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to listIn a message dated 2/24/2007 4:50:27 AM Central Standard Time, dxechkn(at)earthlink.net writes:Does anyone on the list know where I can locate them or if anyone has drawings of brackets so I can fabricate some?Wayne,Welcome to the list.I have a Continental A65 on my Pietenpol, but I didn't like the thought of having the cowling attached to the front of the engine, like the J3 Cub. I built my cowl so it is totally independent of the engine, and it mounts Only tothe firewall. You can see how it goes together on this page of my web site : http://nx770cg.com/EngProp.htmlChuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New to listIn a message dated 2/24/2007 4:50:27 AM Central Standard Time, dxechkn(at)earthlink.net writes:Does anyone on the list know where I can locate them or if anyone has drawings of brackets so I can fabricate some?Wayne,Welcome to the list.I have a Continental A65 on my Pietenpol, but I didn't like the thought of having the cowling attached to the front of the engine, like the J3 Cub. I built my cowl so it is totally independent of the engine, and it mounts Only tothe firewall. You can see how it goes together on this page of my web site : http://nx770cg.com/EngProp.htmlChuck G.NX770CG________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I guess my EAA chapter test pilot just got alemon to base all his future opinions of Piets on. The replies were overwhelminglyan indication that the plans are good as is and I'll continue to use themas they are. My idea seems unnecessary at this point.Thanks--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I guess my EAA chapter test pilot just got alemon to base all his future opinions of Piets on. The replies were overwhelminglyan indication that the plans are good as is and I'll continue to use themas they are. My idea seems unnecessary at this point.Thanks--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: "walt evans"
Just something to think about... I went to an EAA chapter meeting several yearsago about an hour or so away. I went because I heard there was a guy therethat built a Piet and was going to give a presentation on it. I was really anticipatingthis and was anxiously awaiting his speech during the first half ofthe meeting. Finally his turn came and I was really shocked when the first thinghe said was how awful of an airplane the Pietenpol was to fly. He went onto say he had about an hour and a half on it and it was the most terrifyingflying he had ever done. He declared that Pietenpols were very unstable and hisship would never fly again. There were probably 40 EAAers or so at this meetingthat were actively soaking up all of his Pietenpol experiences. At theclosing he felt that building it was a good experience but for someone who wantedan airplane to fly they had better pick another design. After the meeting,while hanging around for a while, and being almost afraid to mention to anyonethat I was building one of these beasts, I heard his ship was in the hangarout back. I walked back to see it and saw a ship built with many deviationsfrom the plans that lead to many other changes that lead to an airplane that wasa builder's heartbreak because it never had a chance to be a good flying airplane.Unfortunately all of the EAAers in there probably left with the sameimpressions he had on the Pietenpol. Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:52:50 -0500
Just something to think about... I went to an EAA chapter meeting several yearsago about an hour or so away. I went because I heard there was a guy therethat built a Piet and was going to give a presentation on it. I was really anticipatingthis and was anxiously awaiting his speech during the first half ofthe meeting. Finally his turn came and I was really shocked when the first thinghe said was how awful of an airplane the Pietenpol was to fly. He went onto say he had about an hour and a half on it and it was the most terrifyingflying he had ever done. He declared that Pietenpols were very unstable and hisship would never fly again. There were probably 40 EAAers or so at this meetingthat were actively soaking up all of his Pietenpol experiences. At theclosing he felt that building it was a good experience but for someone who wantedan airplane to fly they had better pick another design. After the meeting,while hanging around for a while, and being almost afraid to mention to anyonethat I was building one of these beasts, I heard his ship was in the hangarout back. I walked back to see it and saw a ship built with many deviationsfrom the plans that lead to many other changes that lead to an airplane that wasa builder's heartbreak because it never had a chance to be a good flying airplane.Unfortunately all of the EAAers in there probably left with the sameimpressions he had on the Pietenpol. Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:52:50 -0500
> Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: shad bell
Good job you took the time to find out the real problem.Too bad for others who listen to people whom they think are authorities on a subject but are really only bad press because they failed the real test.Nothing new here,it'sbeen going on for centuries;flat world,can't go faster than 20 mph or we will fly apart etc.There will always be the nay sayers.Now go and build your Piet as per directions from the master,Bernard Pietenpol and enjoy a great aircraft!>From: "Don Emch" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question>Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 18:28:05 -0800>>>Just something to think about... I went to an EAA chapter meeting several >years ago about an hour or so away. I went because I heard there was a guy >there that built a Piet and was going to give a presentation on it. I was >really anticipating this and was anxiously awaiting his speech during the >first half of the meeting. Finally his turn came and I was really shocked >when the first thing he said was how awful of an airplane the Pietenpol was >to fly. He went on to say he had about an hour and a half on it and it was >the most terrifying flying he had ever done. He declared that Pietenpols >were very unstable and his ship would never fly again. There were probably >40 EAAers or so at this meeting that were actively soaking up all of his >Pietenpol experiences. At the closing he felt that building it was a good >experience but for someone who wanted an airplane to fly they had better >pick another design. After the meeting, while hanging around for a while, >and being almost!> afraid to mention to anyone that I was building one of these beasts, I >heard his ship was in the hangar out back. I walked back to see it and saw >a ship built with many deviations from the plans that lead to many other >changes that lead to an airplane that was a builder's heartbreak because it >never had a chance to be a good flying airplane. Unfortunately all of the >EAAers in there probably left with the same impressions he had on the >Pietenpol.>>Don Emch>NX899DE>>>Read this topic online here:>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:34:07 -0800 (PST)
Good job you took the time to find out the real problem.Too bad for others who listen to people whom they think are authorities on a subject but are really only bad press because they failed the real test.Nothing new here,it'sbeen going on for centuries;flat world,can't go faster than 20 mph or we will fly apart etc.There will always be the nay sayers.Now go and build your Piet as per directions from the master,Bernard Pietenpol and enjoy a great aircraft!>From: "Don Emch" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question>Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 18:28:05 -0800>>>Just something to think about... I went to an EAA chapter meeting several >years ago about an hour or so away. I went because I heard there was a guy >there that built a Piet and was going to give a presentation on it. I was >really anticipating this and was anxiously awaiting his speech during the >first half of the meeting. Finally his turn came and I was really shocked >when the first thing he said was how awful of an airplane the Pietenpol was >to fly. He went on to say he had about an hour and a half on it and it was >the most terrifying flying he had ever done. He declared that Pietenpols >were very unstable and his ship would never fly again. There were probably >40 EAAers or so at this meeting that were actively soaking up all of his >Pietenpol experiences. At the closing he felt that building it was a good >experience but for someone who wanted an airplane to fly they had better >pick another design. After the meeting, while hanging around for a while, >and being almost!> afraid to mention to anyone that I was building one of these beasts, I >heard his ship was in the hangar out back. I walked back to see it and saw >a ship built with many deviations from the plans that lead to many other >changes that lead to an airplane that was a builder's heartbreak because it >never had a chance to be a good flying airplane. Unfortunately all of the >EAAers in there probably left with the same impressions he had on the >Pietenpol.>>Don Emch>NX899DE>>>Read this topic online here:>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:34:07 -0800 (PST)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Flying again.
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Shad,I have just changed out an 8 plate to a 12 plate. I also added a bit morebaffling but I think the major influence on the engine temps has been there-pitching of the prop. I am not climbing uphill in top gear anymore! Theengine is running and sounding sweet. I hope it all continues.CheersPeterWonthaggi AustraliaHYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____
Shad,I have just changed out an 8 plate to a 12 plate. I also added a bit morebaffling but I think the major influence on the engine temps has been there-pitching of the prop. I am not climbing uphill in top gear anymore! Theengine is running and sounding sweet. I hope it all continues.CheersPeterWonthaggi AustraliaHYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cpc-world.com _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Walt, the airplane was in Ohio and I never did hear much about it again. It'sbeen probably 11 or 12 years since I attended that meeting. Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Walt, the airplane was in Ohio and I never did hear much about it again. It'sbeen probably 11 or 12 years since I attended that meeting. Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: update on 41CC
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Well, I guess since the Pietenpol Air Camper is such an antiquated, inadequate, unsafe, clumsy design- I shouldn't say this, but I just spent one of the most memorable days of my life flying one.Today marked one of the longest instructional flights in my logbook except for dual x-c's during my training days for my private... 2.5 hrs. dual, 16 landings logged in 41CC today. I can honestly say that it was one of the most challenging, but fun, instructional flights that are in my logbook.The airplane flies as honest and as pure as any airplane can possibly fly. There is nothing quirky about this Pietenpol Air Camper. Nothing. It takes off, climbs, cruises, stalls, descends, lands, turns, and does everything else exactly the way elementary flight instruction is taught and the way any pilot can expect a conventional, 3-axis airplane to fly. There are no surprises, no mysteries. The airplane requires that the pilot know how to fly, and that is all.We flew circuits at T86 to both ends of the runway (essentially zero wind), then blew out of the pattern to go fly stalls and Dutch rolls and let me see what the vertical velocity indicator showed at different airspeeds. That was cheating, because 41CC actually has two gyro instruments... a T&B and a VVI (I was taught that it was a VSI, but I guess all that changed somewhere along the line and now it has a new name). But none of that is necessary. Charlie sat up front and he could set the airplane up to demonstrate a maneuver at 70MPH, power and controls, then ask me what airspeed we were showing. 70MPH. Not a penny more nor less. You can fly this airplane without the instruments. Later, I swapped seats with Charlie and flew it from the front and did even better except that the toes of my boots kept hitting the fuel tank. But it's a blast to fly this airplane.We flew out to a ranch airstrip, not a whole lot more than gravel and dirt, and I actually did better at approaches and landings there than I did to the "big, real, paved runway" at Zapata. It was more fun that a guy should be allowed to have.I guess I'm signed off to fly the airplane, but before I bring it home I'm going up for one more session of dual. A circuit or three, a few touch and goes, then I'll head off on my first solo and x-c in it, to bring it back home. I hate to do it, Charlie loves the airplane so much and gives so many people rides in it. Last one was a 12-year-old that he flew over his family's ranch yesterday. That lad will never forget that flight, I can assure you. And Charlie flies another guy's Zenith 701 regularly (they use aircraft for herding and spotting cattle down here) and says the Piet is as good as, or better, at the job than the 701. Comparable short field performance, more comfortable loitering at cow-spotting altitude, more fun to fly. I'll take his word.Corky, you built a winner.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default ... __________
Well, I guess since the Pietenpol Air Camper is such an antiquated, inadequate, unsafe, clumsy design- I shouldn't say this, but I just spent one of the most memorable days of my life flying one.Today marked one of the longest instructional flights in my logbook except for dual x-c's during my training days for my private... 2.5 hrs. dual, 16 landings logged in 41CC today. I can honestly say that it was one of the most challenging, but fun, instructional flights that are in my logbook.The airplane flies as honest and as pure as any airplane can possibly fly. There is nothing quirky about this Pietenpol Air Camper. Nothing. It takes off, climbs, cruises, stalls, descends, lands, turns, and does everything else exactly the way elementary flight instruction is taught and the way any pilot can expect a conventional, 3-axis airplane to fly. There are no surprises, no mysteries. The airplane requires that the pilot know how to fly, and that is all.We flew circuits at T86 to both ends of the runway (essentially zero wind), then blew out of the pattern to go fly stalls and Dutch rolls and let me see what the vertical velocity indicator showed at different airspeeds. That was cheating, because 41CC actually has two gyro instruments... a T&B and a VVI (I was taught that it was a VSI, but I guess all that changed somewhere along the line and now it has a new name). But none of that is necessary. Charlie sat up front and he could set the airplane up to demonstrate a maneuver at 70MPH, power and controls, then ask me what airspeed we were showing. 70MPH. Not a penny more nor less. You can fly this airplane without the instruments. Later, I swapped seats with Charlie and flew it from the front and did even better except that the toes of my boots kept hitting the fuel tank. But it's a blast to fly this airplane.We flew out to a ranch airstrip, not a whole lot more than gravel and dirt, and I actually did better at approaches and landings there than I did to the "big, real, paved runway" at Zapata. It was more fun that a guy should be allowed to have.I guess I'm signed off to fly the airplane, but before I bring it home I'm going up for one more session of dual. A circuit or three, a few touch and goes, then I'll head off on my first solo and x-c in it, to bring it back home. I hate to do it, Charlie loves the airplane so much and gives so many people rides in it. Last one was a 12-year-old that he flew over his family's ranch yesterday. That lad will never forget that flight, I can assure you. And Charlie flies another guy's Zenith 701 regularly (they use aircraft for herding and spotting cattle down here) and says the Piet is as good as, or better, at the job than the 701. Comparable short field performance, more comfortable loitering at cow-spotting altitude, more fun to fly. I'll take his word.Corky, you built a winner.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net_________________________________________________________________Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Sure! All I have to do is finish it (which may extend beyond the lifespan of the more critical types in the chapter). I try to make regular progress and work on it at least 3 times a week but have a new appreciation for the amount of work this is (as well as respect for all you folks that have finished, and even more for a few that have built more than 1 plane. This takes serious project management skills.) I'm hoping that the wing ribs I'm almost done with will become a wing in less time than it took to make them; the reading, studying plans and learning has taken a lot of time and I'd probably be able to repeat what I've done in less time if I did it again (and I hope I can).Glenn W. ThomasStorrs, CThttp://www.flyingwood.com----- Original Message -----
Sure! All I have to do is finish it (which may extend beyond the lifespan of the more critical types in the chapter). I try to make regular progress and work on it at least 3 times a week but have a new appreciation for the amount of work this is (as well as respect for all you folks that have finished, and even more for a few that have built more than 1 plane. This takes serious project management skills.) I'm hoping that the wing ribs I'm almost done with will become a wing in less time than it took to make them; the reading, studying plans and learning has taken a lot of time and I'd probably be able to repeat what I've done in less time if I did it again (and I hope I can).Glenn W. ThomasStorrs, CThttp://www.flyingwood.com----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Possibly (Probably) Dumb Question
Original Posted By: Greg Chapman