Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Hi,There was some discussion on the list of the Grega gn-1 biplane that was for saleon Barnstormers recently. I bought it and managed to get it home and have somequestions as a new builder.First some background;I found it is pretty much a plans-built Grega GN-1 with steel tube fuselage anda larger/heavier engine than is typical. The biplane part is from the St. Croix/ChadWillie "Aeriel Pietenpol" plans, which came with the plane and now makemore sense, as essentially they are add on wings for a regular Pietenpol, alongwith some stuts and wires.I did manage to find a similar plane, in that it has same rigging and basic configuration.(Its in St. Louis at a museum.. seems odd to be building somethingothers put in museums..).http://www.airandspacemuseum.org/photos ... .jpgAnyway to my questions;There were two Grega specific items I wondered about; First, it has an .026 aircraftaluminum leading edge, which is attached with lots of brads, but not glued.I recall the Grega plans specify that kind of leading edge, but should itbe glued? From moving it is coming kind of loose, it would be easy to retack itor to glue it, but wondered what the opinions would be on this.Second, the passenger seat base is supported by a couple diagonal steel tubes thatare too close to the sides of the fuselage for me to comfortably fit my legsin. Is there any way to know if they are load bearing and their design is keyto safety, they look like they could easily be cut/replaced with the same weighttubes arched a bit to make for more leg room.Any tips on creating the leading edge? Think it would be odd to have one wing skinnedin wood and one in aluminum, and suspect I will end up going aluminum tomatch the one that is done. While by bottom Aeriel/St. Croix wing is prettywell built, it doesn't have the leading edge spar built. I have head bannisterrailing is commonly used, but would like more information, like .. if you usealuminum for a leading edge, and you use a bannister railing for the spar, isit supposed to support the leading edge.. meaning having same profile.. and wouldit then be bradded and/or glued (T-88 I presume.)This list is one of the things that helped convince me to go for the plane, inthat I saw a lot of good information flowing back and forth. I am in the EAA andit is a great place to be to build high perf metal kit planes, or compositeones, but they were kind of light on folks interested in wood, steel tube andfabric, though there are a lot of good guys there. Any suggestions would be appreciated.Thanks,JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p19_ ... ______Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:15:55 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
RE: Pietenpol-List: Front seat attachment
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Re: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By: "jimd"
was this the GN-1 that was in Mesa, AZ?if so make sure you THOROUGHLY check the fuse for Black Widow nests. I saw that plane months ago and it was full of them!----- Original Message -----
was this the GN-1 that was in Mesa, AZ?if so make sure you THOROUGHLY check the fuse for Black Widow nests. I saw that plane months ago and it was full of them!----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By:
Yes it was the one, and I have spent about 8 hrs cleaning/vacuuming it so far,and plan on spending more time on it. Amazing how much dust wings can hold bythe way... may have been partly cleaned when I got there as it wasn't too bad.I pulled all the inspection plates and found a few webs, but not that bad.It appears to be well built, love the Bucker Jungmann engine, should be reallyfun, but have a number of things to work on, like getting the landing gear geometryright, figuring out the rigging, etc.Should be an adventure. May be the heaviest Pietenpol derived plane when its donethough, with the spare wing and heavy engine. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane QuestionsDate: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:59:52 -0400
Yes it was the one, and I have spent about 8 hrs cleaning/vacuuming it so far,and plan on spending more time on it. Amazing how much dust wings can hold bythe way... may have been partly cleaned when I got there as it wasn't too bad.I pulled all the inspection plates and found a few webs, but not that bad.It appears to be well built, love the Bucker Jungmann engine, should be reallyfun, but have a number of things to work on, like getting the landing gear geometryright, figuring out the rigging, etc.Should be an adventure. May be the heaviest Pietenpol derived plane when its donethough, with the spare wing and heavy engine. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Grega GN-1 Biplane QuestionsDate: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:59:52 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By: "jimd"
Jim,My Grega plans call out .013 alum secured with 20 ga. 3/4" nails. DrawingNo. 800-20.Skip> Anyway to my questions;> First, it has an> .026 aircraft aluminum leading edge, which is attached with lots of> brads, but not glued. I recall the Grega plans specify that kind of> leading edge, but should it be glued? From moving it is coming kind of> loose, it would be easy to retack it or to glue it, but wondered what> the opinions would be on this.>> Thanks,>> Jim________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Jim,My Grega plans call out .013 alum secured with 20 ga. 3/4" nails. DrawingNo. 800-20.Skip> Anyway to my questions;> First, it has an> .026 aircraft aluminum leading edge, which is attached with lots of> brads, but not glued. I recall the Grega plans specify that kind of> leading edge, but should it be glued? From moving it is coming kind of> loose, it would be easy to retack it or to glue it, but wondered what> the opinions would be on this.>> Thanks,>> Jim________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By: "jimd"
Thanks for the info.Bet those brads I mentioned are really the same nails you refer to. They are alittle loose, but I think they will tighten back up.. suspect the wood went fromsomewhere normal to Arizona where the wings were built and then shrank a little.I am in Missouri, where the humidity varies a bit, but is much more humidthan AZ. Will tap them back in and see.For the lower wing, the one without the leading edge, I am leaning toward doingit exactly the same way, so will have to figure out how to shape and mount theleading edge wood spar. Will look at the Aeriel plans and see what they specify,probably talk to a DAR before going very far.Thanks again,JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Thanks for the info.Bet those brads I mentioned are really the same nails you refer to. They are alittle loose, but I think they will tighten back up.. suspect the wood went fromsomewhere normal to Arizona where the wings were built and then shrank a little.I am in Missouri, where the humidity varies a bit, but is much more humidthan AZ. Will tap them back in and see.For the lower wing, the one without the leading edge, I am leaning toward doingit exactly the same way, so will have to figure out how to shape and mount theleading edge wood spar. Will look at the Aeriel plans and see what they specify,probably talk to a DAR before going very far.Thanks again,JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By: "skellytownflyer"
Mark,Welcome to the list.Skip>P.S. Do you get bugs in your teeth flying the Piet?
>Only if you smile ;o)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Mark,Welcome to the list.Skip>P.S. Do you get bugs in your teeth flying the Piet?
>Only if you smile ;o)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane QuestionsOriginal Posted By: "Dick Navratil"
I understand the brads pulling loose on the wing wrap.I installed the .020 aluminumleading edge wrap I got from DJ on these wings after pre-bending them overa small pipe.And the still were really tough to get pulled down.I ended up usingvery small wood screws-#2 maybe? and a dab of wood glue on each one to keepthem down.have the wings all ready to cover now and hoping to get back on theproject in about a month.been a long busy summer.RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I understand the brads pulling loose on the wing wrap.I installed the .020 aluminumleading edge wrap I got from DJ on these wings after pre-bending them overa small pipe.And the still were really tough to get pulled down.I ended up usingvery small wood screws-#2 maybe? and a dab of wood glue on each one to keepthem down.have the wings all ready to cover now and hoping to get back on theproject in about a month.been a long busy summer.RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By: HelsperSew(at)aol.com
Thought of screws, however everything I read said don't use screws on aircraftwoodwork, rather to look at the brads/nails as temporary clamps for holding whilethe glue drys. Didn't see glue for the leading edge that came loose, so I mentioned it. Does give me a chance to really clean out the area that will be enclosed and getthe dust out first, so its probably a good thing. Think I will put some kind of extra cloth tape over the brads to make the coveringcloth look better and make it less likely they will rise and look ugly.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thought of screws, however everything I read said don't use screws on aircraftwoodwork, rather to look at the brads/nails as temporary clamps for holding whilethe glue drys. Didn't see glue for the leading edge that came loose, so I mentioned it. Does give me a chance to really clean out the area that will be enclosed and getthe dust out first, so its probably a good thing. Think I will put some kind of extra cloth tape over the brads to make the coveringcloth look better and make it less likely they will rise and look ugly.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Cowling- What alloy?
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cowling- What alloy?Hi Guys,What are people using for cowling material? Please advise. Thanks. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cowling- What alloy?Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:38:35 -0400
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cowling- What alloy?Hi Guys,What are people using for cowling material? Please advise. Thanks. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Cowling- What alloy?Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:38:35 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By: "jimd"
To glue down the leading edge, try sanding the glue joint and using Liquid Nail.(make sure that you get it in place the first time) After all, the fabric will hold it down in place.Barry----- Original Message -----
To glue down the leading edge, try sanding the glue joint and using Liquid Nail.(make sure that you get it in place the first time) After all, the fabric will hold it down in place.Barry----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Grega GN-1 Biplane Questions
Original Posted By: "Peter W Johnson"
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried tapping the little brass brad/nails in and whileit works they really didn't seem to hold all that well, so I am going tohave to do something more than that to get them to stay put.Once that is done on the top wings they should be ready to be covered. Watchedthe Poly-Fiber video and read the book, wow its going to be fun. Have a lot ofwork ahead. The bottom wings need a front spar and leading edge then they willbe ready to cover.Not sure how you deal with covering the wing walk part of the lower wing, but aforum of high wing plane people probably isn't the ideal place to ask.Think I will call the Poly-Fiber support line, had some other questions for themanyway.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried tapping the little brass brad/nails in and whileit works they really didn't seem to hold all that well, so I am going tohave to do something more than that to get them to stay put.Once that is done on the top wings they should be ready to be covered. Watchedthe Poly-Fiber video and read the book, wow its going to be fun. Have a lot ofwork ahead. The bottom wings need a front spar and leading edge then they willbe ready to cover.Not sure how you deal with covering the wing walk part of the lower wing, but aforum of high wing plane people probably isn't the ideal place to ask.Think I will call the Poly-Fiber support line, had some other questions for themanyway.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________